Religious scripture citations in a personal statement....?

[Desired Member]

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It is indeed freedom of religion. While the first amendment provides the right for people to practice their own religion, it also gives rights to others to disagree with how people practice their religion. I see no reason why a medical school does not have the freedom to exclude admissions to somebody because they feel that they have qualities that will impede upon them providing proper health care to patients. Religious people are not being prosecuted or legally punished in anyway. The first amendment protects your legal rights, but says nothing about private privilege. The bible is not the law of the land.



Medical school are allowed to determine which qualities they want in a student, and which qualities will make the best doctors. This is America.

Employers often state that they don't discriminate based upon gender, race, creed, sexual orientation, etc. Obviously medical schools do discriminate based upon these characteristics. Whether or not discrimination based upon creed, ie 'We won't accept Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, Muslims, etc' is lawful or not is not the issue being discussed. You are bringing up another issue.

"While the first amendment provides the right for people to practice their own religion, it also gives rights to others to disagree with how people practice their religion."
This is obvious. Do disagree with me! Disagreement is healthy.

I'm just saying that a physician doesn't have to perform a treatment that goes against his/her conscience, creed, etc. Do you really want to live in a country where physicians no longer have this freedom?

Even in instances I don't particularly understand, like a Muslim male doctor refusing to do CPR on a woman, I will defend that doctor's right to refuse. He is not some slave of the secular state.

 

[Desired Member]

I fail to understand how that is not freedom of religion. If people are choosing to not do business with people who use religion in the workplace then that is simply people exercising their own right of expression. The freedom of religion does not provide the right to practice religion without scrutiny. The first amendment "prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion," so I see no legal reason why people need to be respectful of others religious beliefs or practices.

A person does have the right to choose who provides his/her health care (I suppose except in ER). No one is saying this isn't the case.

"The freedom of religion does not provide the right to practice religion without scrutiny." This is vague, but if I understand the statement correctly then I agree. A doctor who euthanizes his/her patients because it is his/her religious belief that this should be done, is mentally ill. This doctor should not be allowed to practice his/her "religion."

"I see no legal reason why people need to be respectful of others religious beliefs or practices." You stated the legal reason is a post I quoted above.

 

[Desired Member]

It may be legal for someone in private practice to refuse services one does not believe it. But just because it is legal to do so, does not make it moral or medically ethical. The concept of conscience the article talks about comes straight from the legal studies. Now, if the physician is not in private practice, and instead works for a hospital, they may not have the luxury to refer patients out for services they consider unacceptable. And once again, it all depends on how far the physician wants to take his beliefs: if someone in private practice wants to refuse services to an entire group of people, then they will surely face backlash for it.

You make a good point about how acting based upon religious beliefs may be legal but not necessarily perceived by others to be "morally or medically ethical."

The reality is, what is morally/medically ethical is subjective. Topics like abortion and euthanasia prove this.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Employers often state that they don't discriminate based upon gender, race, creed, sexual orientation, etc. Obviously medical schools do discriminate based upon these characteristics. Whether or not discrimination based upon creed, ie 'We won't accept Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, Muslims, etc' is lawful or not is not the issue being discussed. You are bringing up another issue.

I'm just saying that a physician doesn't have to perform a treatment that goes against his/her conscience, creed, etc. Do you really want to live in a country where physicians no longer have this freedom?

First off, i never said someone should preform a procedure they don't agree with, but i have witnessed physicians tell patients that they will not discuss abortion with a patient, nor will they provide the resources because that indirectly means they were responsible. This is harmful to the patient. I haven't personally witnessed it, but I know gay people who will not disclose their sexuality to a physician because they know the physician is religious. This is isn't helping the patient either. Whether you want to admit it or not, it has a massive influence on patients. It isn't hard to refer to someone else, but imposing your ethics on a patient for any reason is harmful. Ive sat in interviews and heard people say that they are morally against abortion, so they would use every resource they can to talk them out of it. You can believe whatever you want, but I guarantee this mentality instantly destroys the doctor patient relationship.

And medical schools don't discriminate, just like employers. But if you are going to sit there and honestly say that people at these places don't discriminate, you clearly have not seen real life.

 

[ERK123]

A person does have the right to choose who provides his/her health care (I suppose except in ER). No one is saying this isn't the case.

I am saying that medical schools have the right to decide the qualities that a person should posses in order to practice medicine. If they feel that religious beliefs interfere with somebody's ability to learn or practice medicine then this is a legitimate reason to deny somebody's application. You seem to disagree with this sentiment based on this exchange:

I have to say that this makes me very angry.

Physicians are not obliged to provide treatments that go against their own religious beliefs. This is America.

"I am fine with religious people as physicians" so kind of you...

Which you said in response to this message:

In fact, one question I ask when i see people with religious activities or with answers that bring up religion is, "how would you handle a patient asking for a treatment that you are personally against?" everyone is different and I am fine with religious people as physicians, but i have a problem with people so religious it can indirectly harm patients.

"The freedom of religion does not provide the right to practice religion without scrutiny." This is vague, but if I understand the statement correctly then I agree. A doctor who euthanizes his/her patients because it is his/her religious belief that this should be done, is mentally ill. This doctor should not be allowed to practice his/her "religion."

What is this nonsense? Are you implying that a doctor would euthanize a patient because of their religious beliefs, or are you saying that a doctor who believes physician assisted suicide is mentally ill?

You stated the legal reason is a post I quoted above.

Where?

 

[Desired Member]

First off, i never said someone should preform a procedure they don't agree with, but i have witnessed physicians tell patients that they will not discuss abortion with a patient, nor will they provide the resources because that indirectly means they were responsible. This is harmful to the patient. I haven't personally witnessed it, but I know gay people who will not disclose their sexuality to a physician because they know the physician is religious. This is isn't helping the patient either. Whether you want to admit it or not, it has a massive influence on patients. It isn't hard to refer to someone else, but imposing your ethics on a patient for any reason is harmful. Ive sat in interviews and heard people say that they are morally against abortion, so they would use every resource they can to talk them out of it. You can believe whatever you want, but I guarantee this mentality instantly destroys the doctor patient relationship.

And medical schools don't discriminate, just like employers. But if you are going to sit there and honestly say that people at these places don't discriminate, you clearly have not seen real life.

You think medical schools don't discriminate based upon characteristics like race and religion?

It is unfortunate when a woman who wants an abortion or a person who is gay feels hated. I'm not denying that some people do hate others under the pretense of religion. That doesn't change the fact that physicians have the right to refuse to perform treatment or provide certain resources to their patients. I suppose appropriate response is something like, 'I care about you and do not feel comfortable discussing this/performing this/providing this, as my views are different from yours.' A religious physician who acts out of love only denies treatments/resources/discussions when he/she truly believes this is in the best interest of his/her patient. Just because some physicians are hateful doesn't mean physicians' rights should be stripped from them.

Anyway, I do think we agree that shaming/lecturing/trying to convert patients is utterly inappropriate.

 

[Desired Member]

I am saying that medical schools have the right to decide the qualities that a person should posses in order to practice medicine. If they feel that religious beliefs interfere with somebody's ability to learn or practice medicine then this is a legitimate reason to deny somebody's application. You seem to disagree with this sentiment based on this exchange:



Which you said in response to this message:





What is this nonsense? Are you implying that a doctor would euthanize a patient because of their religious beliefs, or are you saying that a doctor who believes physician assisted suicide is mentally ill?



Where?

This is where: "the first amendment provides the right for people to practice their own religion"

Also, when I gave the exaggerated example of the doctor killing patients, I was showing that I agree with him: religious beliefs should not be exempt from what he called "scrutiny." I'm saying that while I do feel very strongly that physicians should be able to decline to provide treatment/resources/etc because of religious/ethical reasons, physicians should NOT somehow be excused of committing various crimes under the pretense of being a religious physician. I think we can all agree that murdering patients is a crime. I gave a really ridiculous, exaggerated situation thinking no one could possibly misconstrue it. Apparently I was wrong

Also I never wanted to talk about admissions into med school...you brought that up. I agree with you that med schools have the right to deny a student if they feel the student will not be a good physician.

 

[ERK123]

This is where: "the first amendment provides the right for people to practice their own religion"

There is a difference between right to practice and right to practice without scrutiny and the consequences that come from scrutiny in a private setting.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

My PS was essentially the book of Revelation....and I got 5 interviews.

In all seriousness however, I would err on the side of not using quotes, especially when it's from a religious text and you have no clue who the readers are. I'm reviewers from CUSOM and MUCOM might appreciate it but I still wouldn't risk it.

You think CUSOM is "religious" beyond the fact that they're undergrad is affiliated with the Baptist church?

 

[lal4life]

Oh, this will go over well at Einstein and the Touros, or Cornell-Qatar.

Seriously, I think this would make people nervous. Not many people are comfortable with over displays of religiosity, except maybe at LUCOM or Loma Linda.

Religious missions don't add anything for ECs either, unless you were digging wells or vaccinating people.

Primarily religious missions are to be included in your app to explain what you were doing during the time you were serving. This service does not hurt your application. If you are able to describe how these experiences developed your self-understanding or a deeper respect for the value of others' beliefs, these experiences (not the "mission") can give you a more interesting application.

Missions whose primary purpose is the conversion of others to your belief system fall somewhat flat as a resume builder, even though you have a constitutional right to pursue this activity.

While I can see why you might think that they add no value if you are trying to convert people, I think you may be misinformed by what is done on these missions that have a primary purpose of conversion. Having served a similar mission to OP, sounding from his description like we are from the same religion, let me tell you a lite about what we do.

Yes, conversion is the main goal. In doing so, we completely remove ourselves from our lives. We leave our homes, schools, families, friends, and aspirations for two years to live somewhere we don't speak the language and don't know anyone. We were from 8 in the morning until 9 at night. We take no days off. One day a week we do laundry and grocery shopping, then back to work. We don't have access to any media, with the exception of the Internet for one hour a week, with the sole purpose of writing home to our families. We can't even email friends, just use snail mail. We don't date, we don't socialize, we just work. We can't even call home to talk to our familie except for Christmas and Mother's Day. We do that every day for 2 years. We meet thousands of people and get thousands of rejections. We know how to deal with a non-comoliant patient because we've seen them every day.

We also learn how to study, even though all we study is religion. We learn dedication, determination, and discipline and put it into practice every day. A member from my school's admission committee told me that they love people from my undergrad because we are more mature, focused, and overall some of the better students that they get. Why? Well, he thinks that 2 year mission has something to do with it.

So I guess on the surface, someone might think that regions missions add nothing to EC's, I'd say it is my strongest EC. I still talk about what I learned with my attendings during my rotations. That will never change. It becomes a part of who we are. I left for my mission 8 years ago today. It was the best decision I ever made, because it changed who I am forever.

 

[Goro]

While you're putting on your martyr's shirt, you're merely showing off your entitlement.

You had to do without wireless? Boo hoo.

And going to a new culture without even trying to learn the language before hand really smacks of arrogance, rather than an endeavor.

All this to the convert the heathen, because, God forbid, their religion isn't good enough for you.

While I can see why you might think that they add no value if you are trying to convert people, I think you may be misinformed by what is done on these missions that have a primary purpose of conversion. Having served a similar mission to OP, sounding from his description like we are from the same religion, let me tell you a lite about what we do.

Yes, conversion is the main goal. In doing so, we completely remove ourselves from our lives. We leave our homes, schools, families, friends, and aspirations for two years to live somewhere we don't speak the language and don't know anyone. We were from 8 in the morning until 9 at night. We take no days off. One day a week we do laundry and grocery shopping, then back to work. We don't have access to any media, with the exception of the Internet for one hour a week, with the sole purpose of writing home to our families. We can't even email friends, just use snail mail. We don't date, we don't socialize, we just work. We can't even call home to talk to our familie except for Christmas and Mother's Day. We do that every day for 2 years. We meet thousands of people and get thousands of rejections. We know how to deal with a non-comoliant patient because we've seen them every day.

We also learn how to study, even though all we study is religion. We learn dedication, determination, and discipline and put it into practice every day. A member from my school's admission committee told me that they love people from my undergrad because we are more mature, focused, and overall some of the better students that they get. Why? Well, he thinks that 2 year mission has something to do with it.

So I guess on the surface, someone might think that regions missions add nothing to EC's, I'd say it is my strongest EC. I still talk about what I learned with my attendings during my rotations. That will never change. It becomes a part of who we are. I left for my mission 8 years ago today. It was the best decision I ever made, because it changed who I am forever.

 

[ERK123]

We know how to deal with a non-comoliant patient because we've seen them every day.

These are the types of statements that should never be repeated. Do not call somebody your patient because they are a not a member of your religion.

 

[lal4life]

While you're putting on your martyr's shirt, you're merely showing off your entitled.

You had to do without wireless? Boo hoo.

And going to a new culture without even trying to learn the language before hand really smacks of arrogance, rather than an endeavor.

All this the convert the heathen, because, God forbid, their religion isn't good enough for you.

No intention of being argumentative or anything. Just some perspective and information. You have every right to disagree with me, call me arrogant or entitled, or even attack me or my religion. If I've offended you in anyway, sorry about that. When someone says a mission has no merit, I just feel a bit misunderstood. Not trying to imply a holier than thou attitude. Again, sorry if I offended you.

 

[lal4life]

These are the types of statements that should never be repeated. Do not call somebody your patient because they are a not a member of your religion.

I can see how that was misinterpreted. Whoops, my bad.

In no way do I mean that people that are not of my beliefs are sick and I'm there to establish a doctor patient relationship. Millions of people that don't share my beliefs do far greater things and are much better people than I will ever be.

I simply meant that as a missionary, I met people every day that not listen to advice or counsel I had to offer. Whether or not we agree that my advice was valid is not important. I was simply making an analogy that because I've had that experience, I may be slightly better equipped to work with a non-compliant patient than I was before. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Roxas]

While you're putting on your martyr's shirt, you're merely showing off your entitlement.

You had to do without wireless? Boo hoo.

And going to a new culture without even trying to learn the language before hand really smacks of arrogance, rather than an endeavor.

All this to the convert the heathen, because, God forbid, their religion isn't good enough for you.

I sincerely hope that your malice is due to more misunderstanding than actual anger towards the LDS. I'm also not trying to be argumentative, as you seem to be a very reasonable person who has spoken highly of your LDS students in the past and was a bit surprised at your response.

I may be entitled. But I was able to come to that realization through an LDS mission and I am subsequently more aware of what goes on in the world and am more selfless than I was before. And I'm not done, it's a constant process. I would hope you could see the good in this endeavor.

I don't think OP (or myself in this instance) is playing martyr. Just saying that we give up a lot to try and help people. Nothing more, nothing less.

Perhaps we appear a tad arrogant superficially, but all who learn a language study it rigorously for 2+ months before setting foot in another country. I was conversational after 1-2 months in the Philippines, and fluent in 6-8. This is no brag, as my med school grades can assure you I'm nothing special. Just that we work very hard to adapt to the culture to which we go.

And perhaps most importantly, I realize we are seen as an army of brainwashing weirdos. Your word choice illustrated that well. I may not speak for everyone, but I woke up every day with a goal of helping someone take a step towards happiness, whatever avenue that might be. The number of service projects I did for those of another faith were innumerable. They had no interest in our message, but it didn't matter. I had no agenda, I was simply there trying to help. I invited others to my church for a variety of reasons, among which was that they may feel a sense of community. In no way was their religion not good enough for me. I was happy to see someone's life improve, even if it had nothing to do with our religion.

I'm not trying to present myself as a saint (as anyone who knows me irl on these boards can testify, I'm not). It just saddens me when service with purely good intentions is attacked so maliciously.

 

[kalat]

You'll find as you get older religion and politics shouldn't really have a place around people you're worried about impressing unless they're explicitly interested in these kinds of things (e.g. religiously or politically affiliated organizations and groups). Leave it to your own time otherwise. This is something you should learn sooner rather than later to avoid alienating potential opportunities. Just look at the response in this thread; imagine if you were in a room with all these people trying to have a conversation. Absolute mayhem.

 

[Goro]

My response was geared towards the attitude expressed by the poster, not the LDS.

My LDS students are some of my best, and I have a high opinion of BYU grads. I've long wondered why BYU doesn't open a medical school on their own.

Be that as it may, you don't get points for doing something that your scripture tells you to do in terms of proselytizing. That's not service. We prefer service for others in this world, not the next.

I sincerely hope that your malice is due to more misunderstanding than actual anger towards the LDS. I'm also not trying to be argumentative, as you seem to be a very reasonable person who has spoken highly of your LDS students in the past and was a bit surprised at your response.

I may be entitled. But I was able to come to that realization through an LDS mission and I am subsequently more aware of what goes on in the world and am more selfless than I was before. And I'm not done, it's a constant process. I would hope you could see the good in this endeavor.

I don't think OP (or myself in this instance) is playing martyr. Just saying that we give up a lot to try and help people. Nothing more, nothing less.

Perhaps we appear a tad arrogant superficially, but all who learn a language study it rigorously for 2+ months before setting foot in another country. I was conversational after 1-2 months in the Philippines, and fluent in 6-8. This is no brag, as my med school grades can assure you I'm nothing special. Just that we work very hard to adapt to the culture to which we go.

And perhaps most importantly, I realize we are seen as an army of brainwashing weirdos. Your word choice illustrated that well. I may not speak for everyone, but I woke up every day with a goal of helping someone take a step towards happiness, whatever avenue that might be. The number of service projects I did for those of another faith were innumerable. They had no interest in our message, but it didn't matter. I had no agenda, I was simply there trying to help. I invited others to my church for a variety of reasons, among which was that they may feel a sense of community. In no way was their religion not good enough for me. I was happy to see someone's life improve, even if it had nothing to do with our religion.

I'm not trying to present myself as a saint (as anyone who knows me irl on these boards can testify, I'm not). It just saddens me when service with purely good intentions is attacked so maliciously.

 

[Roxas]

My response was geared towards the attitude expressed by the poster, not the LDS.

My LDS students are some of my best, and I have a high opinion of BYU grads. I've long wondered why BYU doesn't open a medical school on their own.

Be that as it may, you don't get points for doing something that your scripture tells you to do in terms of proselytizing. That's not service. We prefer service for others in this world, not the next.

You're exactly right, I can't imagine many applicants expecting brownie points for proselytizing. I certainly didn't. When I used the term "service" I meant it in exactly the way that both you and I understand it: religious labels cast aside, just 1 human being helping another human being. We provided assistance to the elderly, helped people move, help with yard work, farming, construction, helped pump water from wells, and a host of other activities (many of the recipients of which were not of our faith). I once again would hope that you are reasonable enough not to disregard these activities simply because the doer was a "Mormon."

 

[deleted407021]

Ezekiel 23:20

I'm sure you can find a way to squeeze that one in there.

 

[allantois]

While I can see why you might think that they add no value if you are trying to convert people, I think you may be misinformed by what is done on these missions that have a primary purpose of conversion. Having served a similar mission to OP, sounding from his description like we are from the same religion, let me tell you a lite about what we do.

Yes, conversion is the main goal. In doing so, we completely remove ourselves from our lives. We leave our homes, schools, families, friends, and aspirations for two years to live somewhere we don't speak the language and don't know anyone. We were from 8 in the morning until 9 at night. We take no days off. One day a week we do laundry and grocery shopping, then back to work. We don't have access to any media, with the exception of the Internet for one hour a week, with the sole purpose of writing home to our families. We can't even email friends, just use snail mail. We don't date, we don't socialize, we just work. We can't even call home to talk to our familie except for Christmas and Mother's Day. We do that every day for 2 years. We meet thousands of people and get thousands of rejections. We know how to deal with a non-comoliant patient because we've seen them every day.

We also learn how to study, even though all we study is religion. We learn dedication, determination, and discipline and put it into practice every day. A member from my school's admission committee told me that they love people from my undergrad because we are more mature, focused, and overall some of the better students that they get. Why? Well, he thinks that 2 year mission has something to do with it.

So I guess on the surface, someone might think that regions missions add nothing to EC's, I'd say it is my strongest EC. I still talk about what I learned with my attendings during my rotations. That will never change. It becomes a part of who we are. I left for my mission 8 years ago today. It was the best decision I ever made, because it changed who I am forever.

Sounds like the type of mission that attempts at convincing people that the garden of eden is in Missouri.

I could with the same success voluntarily submit myself into exile to Greece for the purposes of studying about Zeus from the golden plates, and then demand that I'm given an edge in admissions for it.

 

[Roxas]

Sounds like the type of mission that attempts at convincing people that the garden of eden is in Missouri.

I could with the same success voluntarily submit myself into exile to Greece for the purposes of studying about Zeus from the golden plates, and then demand that I'm given a pro in admissions for it.

You're either being intentionally and unnecessarily hostile, or you're missing the point. Please see my post if it's the latter.

 

[Roxas]

Ezekiel 23:20

I'm sure you can find a way to squeeze that one in there.

If you can, you know you have a ballin PS!

 

[Goro]

One of the problems some missionary applicants have (and is not limited to LDS members) is that they don't spell this out on apps!!!

You're exactly right, I can't imagine many applicants expecting brownie points for proselytizing. I certainly didn't. When I used the term "service" I meant it in exactly the way that both you and I understand it: religious labels cast aside, just 1 human being helping another human being. We provided assistance to the elderly, helped people move, help with yard work, farming, construction, helped pump water from wells, and a host of other activities (many of the recipients of which were not of our faith). I once again would hope that you are reasonable enough not to disregard these activities simply because the doer was a "Mormon."

 

[Roxas]

You'll find as you get older religion and politics shouldn't really have a place around people you're worried about impressing unless they're explicitly interested in these kinds of things (e.g. religiously or politically affiliated organizations and groups). Leave it to your own time otherwise. This is something you should learn sooner rather than later to avoid alienating potential opportunities. Just look at the response in this thread; imagine if you were in a room with all these people trying to have a conversation. Absolute mayhem.

Excellent point. Perhaps I'm wrong (@Goro please let me know) but I can see some mentioning it at the very least to account for their absence in school for those 2 years. Or is a gap in school without work not a significant red flag?

 

[Goro]

I have NO problem with the mentioning of the missionary work. Just remember it's discounted for an EC, unless it's spelled out (and vouched for by a LOR writer) that the applicant actually did something useful to the community hey were in.

Leaving a gap tends to raise an eyebrow, but more so if the applicant isn't in school anymore.

So the moral of the story is, we want to see evidence of your altruism and humanism, and missions don't count unless you're doing something altruistic and humanistic, and proselytizing doesn't count. That said, if you're an LDS member, do send an app to my school!

but I can see some mentioning it at the very least to account for their absence in school for those 2 years. Or is a gap in school without work not a significant red flag?[/QUOTE]

 

[NurWollen]

The best advice I received about my mission and how to present it on my app was to present it as what is was: a proselytizing mission. So I didn't put 17,000 hours of community service on my AACOMAS app. I did, however, talk about how it taught me the value of discipline, hard work, love for other languages and other cultures, and putting others' comfort above our own. These are Christian values. They are the values that, I my experience, most religious people identify with most strongly. They are also values that altruistic non-religious people strongly identify with. So I'm surprised that there is so much animosity towards religion in modern society.

If you watch the news, you hear of Christian physicians refusing to treat a lesbian couples' child. You hear of Muslim terrorists. You hear about the Book of Mormon musical. You see stupid politicians making stupid comments about rape and pregnancy. The list goes on.

But we hear and see less about the evangelical and Seventh-day Adventist physicians who give up a life of relative privelege in the US to live in Africa to treat patients who otherwise wouldn't have access to healthcare. You don't hear as much about the dozens of truckloads of food and water the LDS Church sends to disaster areas, or the wearhouses they have dotting the US, full of food that is given to needy Mormon and non-Mormon families free of charge. You hear less about organizations like Islamic Relief Worldwide.

I'm not saying that great humanitarian works are unique to religious people. Quite the opposite. We share many values with secular humanists, atheists, agnostics, and people who reject organized religion. Our inspiration for entering medicine might be different, but our goals are the same. Again, this is why I'm saddened to see so much animosity towards religion. I don't know if the average person realizes the good done everyday in the name of God.

 

[High_protein_diet]

I say why not just forgo writing the personal statement and cite a select portion of the Bible word for word! Go big or go home.

 

[deleted407021]

The best advice I received about my mission and how to present it on my app was to present it as what is was: a proselytizing mission. So I didn't put 17,000 hours of community service on my AACOMAS app. I did, however, talk about how it taught me the value of discipline, hard work, love for other languages and other cultures, and putting others' comfort above our own. These are Christian values. They are the values that, I my experience, most religious people identify with most strongly. They are also values that altruistic non-religious people strongly identify with. So I'm surprised that there is so much animosity towards religion in modern society.

.

what animosity? Religion, especially Christianity, has it made in the U.S. Remember that people calling your faith out on its BS and treating it with the same skeptical appraisal as everything else in life is not animosity.

 

[armastice]

I sense that this thread is gonna get locked.

I put a verse from Luke at the end of my PS and I got multiple interviews. Worked out for me.

If op really feels strongly about putting a verse in his PS then just have tact, wisdom, and discernment in choosing the verse. Choose a verse that is palatable to believers and non believers.

 

[j4pac]

It all depends on the way that it is written. I honestly wouldn't quote anything. People who quote others are typically people who don't have many good thoughts of their own. Stick to your own words.

I honestly think that your PS should be something that is personal to not only you...but something that other readers could relate to for a variety of reasons. I love sports...other people love sports. I told people a story about my love of sports and its association with medicine. I love the military...other people love the medicine. I told about my aspirations of doing military medicine. I've had to suffer with personal lose of family members...and had issues with my own healthcare...may physicians (and none physicians) have dealt with the same. I wrote my personal statement to combine all of these different facets in a very succinct, emotional, personal, and organized way. Give people multiple reasons to like your personal statement, so there is something in it that may grab their attention. You can't please everyone...but give yourself as many opportunities as possible to ping a response.

I was told by multiple residency coordinators that my personal statement is one of the best that they have ever read. My personal statement was in all likelihood enough to get interviews by itself. That's my strategy.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

I say why not just forgo writing the personal statement and cite a select portion of the Bible word for word! Go big or go home.

How kind of you to share your opinion. It really helped to move the thread in a constructive direction.

 

[hallowmann]

This thread is still going on?

First off, i never said someone should preform a procedure they don't agree with, but i have witnessed physicians tell patients that they will not discuss abortion with a patient, nor will they provide the resources because that indirectly means they were responsible. This is harmful to the patient. I haven't personally witnessed it, but I know gay people who will not disclose their sexuality to a physician because they know the physician is religious. This is isn't helping the patient either. Whether you want to admit it or not, it has a massive influence on patients. It isn't hard to refer to someone else, but imposing your ethics on a patient for any reason is harmful. Ive sat in interviews and heard people say that they are morally against abortion, so they would use every resource they can to talk them out of it. You can believe whatever you want, but I guarantee this mentality instantly destroys the doctor patient relationship.

And medical schools don't discriminate, just like employers. But if you are going to sit there and honestly say that people at these places don't discriminate, you clearly have not seen real life.

This is exactly why I had no problem with your question. I'm as concerned about physicians like that as you are.

 

[touchpause13]

You think medical schools don't discriminate based upon characteristics like race and religion?

It is unfortunate when a woman who wants an abortion or a person who is gay feels hated. I'm not denying that some people do hate others under the pretense of religion. That doesn't change the fact that physicians have the right to refuse to perform treatment or provide certain resources to their patients. I suppose appropriate response is something like, 'I care about you and do not feel comfortable discussing this /performing this/providing this, as my views are different from yours.' A religious physician who acts out of love only denies treatments/resources/discussions when he/she truly believes this is in the best interest of his/her patient. Just because some physicians are hateful doesn't mean physicians' rights should be stripped from them.

Anyway, I do think we agree that shaming/lecturing/trying to convert patients is utterly inappropriate.

No, this is not an appropriate response. Just because you think you are doing something out of love doesnt particularly matter, when you deny your patient medical information strictly because of your religious beliefs you are doing them a huge and potentially dangerous disservice. You destroy any repoire you had with them and put them in an even more desperate position.
Honestly I'm having hard time thinking of any reason why denying a pt a conversation/resources is an acceptable medical decision. Paternalistic medicine is gone, we just don't do things like that anymore.