Replacing residency with experience as a PA (Physician Assistant)?

[Joe1294]

I'm new here, and haven't gotten far with medicine yet, so forgive me for asking a stupid question. Hopefully you guys understand that a PA is someone who works under a physician, for less pay, less work, etc., but essentially ends up knowing as much as a real doctor. I'm curious, if someone worked as a PA for several years, and then went to med school, could they shorten their years in residency? Or, could someone who went through med school become a PA (it seems conceivable to me, idk why it wouldnt work out), and not have to do as much residency? I mean, a PA should get as much as experience as residency, given the PA practiced for a while.

I'm asking this, because I'm considering becoming a PA over a physician. I don't care if they earn less, 80k is prefectly fine for me. And they get more free time, and don't have to be on call. I'm in a really serious relationship (probably gonna marry), and one of my big hobbies is playing music (although I'm an aspiring medical student). And I really don't want to devote my life to work, I really want to have time for music too; I consider it an important part of my life. I've also heard "horror" stories about life in med school, and its rigor and time-consumption. PA school may not be much better though. And to be a doctor, I really don't want to do residency. I was wondering if i became a PA, and later in life decided to be a doctor instead, if i would have to go through residency at med school. I've also considered going to med school, and then becoming a PA (idk if its possible! It should be), so that I wouldn't have to do residency, and leave the option open for becoming a doctor. Also, it would be really nice to say I have an MD (not one of my reasons for this at all lol). So, what do you guys think?

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[Evergrey]

I'm new here, and haven't gotten far with medicine yet, so forgive me for asking a stupid question. Hopefully you guys understand that a PA is someone who works under a physician, for less pay, less work, etc., but essentially ends up knowing as much as a real doctor. I'm curious, if someone worked as a PA for several years, and then went to med school, could they shorten their years in residency? Or, could someone who went through med school become a PA (it seems conceivable to me, idk why it wouldnt work out), and not have to do as much residency? I mean, a PA should get as much as experience as residency, given the PA practiced for a while.

I'm asking this, because I'm considering becoming a PA over a physician. I don't care if they earn less, 80k is prefectly fine for me. And they get more free time, and don't have to be on call. I'm in a really serious relationship (probably gonna marry), and one of my big hobbies is playing music (although I'm an aspiring medical student). And I really don't want to devote my life to work, I really want to have time for music too; I consider it an important part of my life. I've also heard "horror" stories about life in med school, and its rigor and time-consumption. PA school may not be much better though. And to be a doctor, I really don't want to do residency. I was wondering if i became a PA, and later in life decided to be a doctor instead, if i would have to go through residency at med school. I've also considered going to med school, and then becoming a PA (idk if its possible! It should be), so that I wouldn't have to do residency, and leave the option open for becoming a doctor. Also, it would be really nice to say I have an MD (not one of my reasons for this at all lol). So, what do you guys think?

I'm headed to bed so I don't have time for a full response.. I just wanted to say though, PAs do not have equivalent knowledge to MDs. The most obvious distinction is that a PA could never operate on a patient (though they can assist during surgery). Some docs hire PAs to work the hours and do the jobs that they don't want.

Ultimately, working in the health care profession often requires some sort of sacrifice, whether it is long hours, erratic/overnight shifts, or long training. Even RNs or CNAs may need to work long overnight (7pm to 7 am) shifts. There are niches working as a PA (or physician) that have good hours and a stable lifestyle where you can also take time off. You can even work part-time as a physician in family medicine, I know several that do this! The road to becoming a doctor is long and difficult as you mentioned, but things can be manageable once you finish residency if you are willing to take sacrifices in income.

There are, to my knowledge, one or two programs that allow PAs to fast-track through med school. I don't remember which they are so take what I say as hearsay until you do actually find out what they are. The one I read about only saves you around 8-10 months of med school, and it might still be in development. You would still end up taking significantly longer than if you went to med school in the first place!

 

[hot sauce]

I'm new here, and haven't gotten far with medicine yet, so forgive me for asking a stupid question. Hopefully you guys understand that a PA is someone who works under a physician, for less pay, less work, etc., but essentially ends up knowing as much as a real doctor. I'm curious, if someone worked as a PA for several years, and then went to med school, could they shorten their years in residency? Or, could someone who went through med school become a PA (it seems conceivable to me, idk why it wouldnt work out), and not have to do as much residency? I mean, a PA should get as much as experience as residency, given the PA practiced for a while.

I'm asking this, because I'm considering becoming a PA over a physician. I don't care if they earn less, 80k is prefectly fine for me. And they get more free time, and don't have to be on call. I'm in a really serious relationship (probably gonna marry), and one of my big hobbies is playing music (although I'm an aspiring medical student). And I really don't want to devote my life to work, I really want to have time for music too; I consider it an important part of my life. I've also heard "horror" stories about life in med school, and its rigor and time-consumption. PA school may not be much better though. And to be a doctor, I really don't want to do residency. I was wondering if i became a PA, and later in life decided to be a doctor instead, if i would have to go through residency at med school. I've also considered going to med school, and then becoming a PA (idk if its possible! It should be), so that I wouldn't have to do residency, and leave the option open for becoming a doctor. Also, it would be really nice to say I have an MD (not one of my reasons for this at all lol). So, what do you guys think?

No.

Being a PA is a great job but you won't be able to use PA experience as a substitute for medical residency. There is a lot of overlapping knowledge and a good PA is an amazing asset but the job and training is not the same as a physician.

As to the question of being a PA after medical school - I doubt it but furthermore it seems like a poor idea. Going through the 4 years of expensive medical school to become a PA just seems like a bad idea.

I understand it is hard to know what you want to do with your life but if you want to be a PA go to PA school if you want to be a physician go to medical school.

Maybe work with some PAs and working with physicians talk to them and figure out which way you want to go.

 

[Nymphicus]

a PA is someone who works under a physician, for less pay, less work, etc., but essentially ends up knowing as much as a real doctor.

Looks like someone needs to do a bit more research. 🙄

I would say you need to really look at what want to get out of your profession, and what it is that you are willing to sacrifice for it.

However, PA =/= physician. A physicians assistant is not "worse", but you sacrifice less for a smaller "gain". So it's up to you to figure out if that gain (increased knowledge base, increased responsibility [= increased malpractice], increased compensation, increased "prestige").

 

[shiftingmirage]

I'm curious, if someone worked as a PA for several years, and then went to med school, could they shorten their years in residency?

My understanding (not a resident) is that you need 1 year internship to get a medical license. There are such things called transition years where you agree to a one year deal, and then usually go to a 2-4 program that follows. Technically anyone who finishes a 1 year transition can practice medicine. The problem becomes getting a job after. No (or very few) place is going to take someone with a transition year for a non-residency position. That person would have to start a private practice which most don't have the funds to do.

Or, could someone who went through med school become a PA (it seems conceivable to me, idk why it wouldnt work out), and not have to do as much residency?

No one would ever go to med school to become a PA. PA school is 2 yrs, med school 4. When PAs leave school, they are a PA. When med students leave, they have an MD, but are no where done with their education. Residency is there for a reason.

I mean, a PA should get as much as experience as residency, given the PA practiced for a while.

That's like saying a paralegal can be a lawyer after 5 years of being a paralegal. They cannot.

I'm asking this, because I'm considering becoming a PA over a physician. I don't care if they earn less, 80k is prefectly fine for me. And they get more free time, and don't have to be on call. I'm in a really serious relationship (probably gonna marry), and one of my big hobbies is playing music (although I'm an aspiring medical student). And I really don't want to devote my life to work, I really want to have time for music too; I consider it an important part of my life. I've also heard "horror" stories about life in med school, and its rigor and time-consumption. PA school may not be much better though. And to be a doctor, I really don't want to do residency.

Those are all great reasons to become a PA and avoid med school. You keep trying to make them equivalent when they are not. That doesn't mean you cannot shout from the mountain tops, "I'm a PA and d*mn proud of it."

Don't go around saying, well PAs are like a doc. They are not. But that does not mean it is not a respectable career.

Docs get annoyed when people claim they are practically a doctor when they are not. A PA is a master's degree. An MD is a doctorate degree. You don't see people with MS saying they are a PhD.

The barriers have created problems at hospitals, particularly with DNPs referring to themselves as Drs in a hospital setting. While they do have a doctorate, when people, particularly in a medical center, hear the word Dr, they think of a medical Dr. Hospitals have come down saying DNPs are not allowed to refer to themselves as Dr because it confuses the patients, although they respect that it is a doctorate degree.

Also, it would be really nice to say I have an MD (not one of my reasons for this at all lol). So, what do you guys think?

It's also nice to say I've got a wife/husband who I make it home to every night. 2.3 children which I read stories to before tucking them in at night. Never missed a single birthday/christmas/hanukkah. People doing a hospital based residency are going to have call, long hours, night shifts.

I was talking to a doc that did his surgery residency at Mass Gen. He said every one of the cardithoracic surgeons was divorced. And several gen surgeons were also divorced. Why - mostly the long hours. It's hard to be in a relationship when you feel you are alone all the time.

 

[Gabby]

As others have said a PA is not a doctor and the knowledge base really isn't equivalent. One of my classmates in med school is a former PA (and yes, you have to actually go to med school and residency if you want to be a doctor, even as a former PA) and she said that one of the biggest differences in being a PA versus a doctor, from a school standpoint, is that in PA school they tell you it is, and in med school they tell you WHY it is. They don't get a lot of the why in PA school apparently and even as a practicing PA, she said she always knew what to do for patients, but she didn't really have to reason her way through disease processes, etc. That's why PA school is only two years while med school is four.

They're different jobs and one can't substitute for the other. Residency isn't just about learning to deal with patients. It's about actually be competent enough to lead the healthcare team in your chosen specialty. Med school graduates can't do that yet, which is why they need residency. It's extremely doubtful that PAs can do it without a residency.

Someone mentioned a fast-track from PA to MD for practicing PAs. It's my understanding that those PAs have several years of experience and that the fast-track only shaves off one year of med school (rotations, not basic sciences), but you still have to do a residency to be licensed.

Someone else mentioned being licensed after intern year. Yes, but I doubt you can get malpractice insurance, which severely limits your options.

Finally, someone mentioned that every cardiothoracic surgeon at Mass General was divorced. Um, it's cardiothoracic surgery at Harvard. LOL. Of course that's not surprising. Surgery is extremely demanding. Cardiothoracic surgery is even worse. At a place like Mass General, CT surgery has got to be pure hell for anyone who wants a family life.

There are a ton of medical specialties that will let you have a life outside the hospital or even work part-time if you want (though you may want to only do this when all your loans are paid). But medical school and residency means committing at least 7-8 years of your life to schooling/training before you can get to that point. You have to decide if it's worth it.

As for PA school, it's a great option. The schooling is less, the debt is less, and you can change specialties whenever you want, unlike medicine, because you don't do a residency.

It's a tough decision to make. Think it through and discuss it with your SO. Good luck!

 

[Jolie South]

This topic is more appropriate for the Pre-Allopathic forum. Moving.

 

[BigRedBeta]

I'm curious, if someone worked as a PA for several years, and then went to med school, could they shorten their years in residency? I mean, a PA should get as much as experience as residency, given the PA practiced for a while.

While being a resident and a PA both means that you practice under supervision, they are not equivalent.

Start with time investment first, there are very few PA's averaging >60 hours a week at work, and they're certainly unlikely to be running up to 80 hour work weeks like residents in many fields and many programs.

Second, time as a resident is not spent just in one aspect of a specialty. Working as a PA in a general pediatrician's office is in no way equivalent to the pediatric resident who is rotating month by month through the NICU, the peds ER, the adolescent clinic, the CVICU, the newborn nursery, PICU, and various specialty services such as heme/onc, genetics, nephrology, pulmonlogy or developmental pediatrics. For the resident who has just graduated residency, they've had a training program which is huge on both depth and breadth of their specialty, and as such (if they choose), are ready to be successful in a wide variety of roles in their field. For the fresh pediatrics resident that includes everything from entering general practice to going into a fellowship (further subspecialty training after residency) in fields ranging from neonatology to allergy/immunology. There's simply no way that the time a PA has spent working is able to provide that diversity of experiences.

Third, the requirements for completing residency come from the respective certifying Board of the specialty in conjunction with the ACGME and the respective Residency Review Committee within the ACGME. These are national standards and residency programs undergo periodic review and accreditation procedures to certify that they're providing the minimum number of experiences to produce adequately trained physicians. The oversight is entirely lacking for a PA in practice. Even if being a PA was fairly similar to residency there's simply way too much variation between individual physician practices to reliably determine if a PA's experience was equivalent to a similar time frame in residency. Further, none of those agencies overseeing residency have the time or money (or desire) to evaluate every single individual case. Regardless, the burden would be on the ex-PA/resident to prove it was, and I think most people would look at the process and figure they had enough on their plate as it was with residency and give up before they even started.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm new here, and haven't gotten far with medicine yet, so forgive me for asking a stupid question. Hopefully you guys understand that a PA is someone who works under a physician, for less pay, less work, etc., but essentially ends up knowing as much as a real doctor. I'm curious, if someone worked as a PA for several years, and then went to med school, could they shorten their years in residency? Or, could someone who went through med school become a PA (it seems conceivable to me, idk why it wouldnt work out), and not have to do as much residency? I mean, a PA should get as much as experience as residency, given the PA practiced for a while.

I'm asking this, because I'm considering becoming a PA over a physician. I don't care if they earn less, 80k is prefectly fine for me. And they get more free time, and don't have to be on call. I'm in a really serious relationship (probably gonna marry), and one of my big hobbies is playing music (although I'm an aspiring medical student). And I really don't want to devote my life to work, I really want to have time for music too; I consider it an important part of my life. I've also heard "horror" stories about life in med school, and its rigor and time-consumption. PA school may not be much better though. And to be a doctor, I really don't want to do residency. I was wondering if i became a PA, and later in life decided to be a doctor instead, if i would have to go through residency at med school. I've also considered going to med school, and then becoming a PA (idk if its possible! It should be), so that I wouldn't have to do residency, and leave the option open for becoming a doctor. Also, it would be really nice to say I have an MD (not one of my reasons for this at all lol). So, what do you guys think?

Agree with the others. Some PA's are very skilled, but they never really get to the point where they know as much as a trained physician. They do, often, know more than a newbie resident in terms of wards stuff, which is where I think your confusion arises. Lots of PAs will be instructing new interns to put in lines, tubes, etc. But by the time you finish residency, your knowledge and abilities will ideally have surpassed them pretty substantially. The key difference is that PAs don't do the same kind of med school and then more importantly residency, which is where a doctor generally learns how to be a doctor. So no, you can't replace a residency with a PA route. You could maybe adjust the residency route to not repeat some of the technical/procedural skills that most PA's pick up along the way, but I think you'd find you were reducing a 3 year residency path to a still over 2 year residency path in most cases. The key difference is that PAs are not doing everything the typical resident is, at least after the first few months of intern year, and rather they are relegated to certain tasks , which they get very good at, but don't ever get the big picture training.

 

[chadbrochill17]

That's like saying a paralegal can be a lawyer after 5 years of being a paralegal. They cannot.

I remember when I was younger I got confused that a paralegal was someone in a wheelchair. Or maybe it was last year..

 

[Law2Doc]

...


That's like saying a paralegal can be a lawyer after 5 years of being a paralegal. They cannot.
...

I think this is a pretty good analogy. I've known lots of paralegals who claim they know more than their bosses. It's rarely true, and often an eye opening experience for the handful of paralegals who ultimately decide to go to law school. The key distinction though is that there isn't a residency for law -- you come out of school and basically learn on the job, often in a field not heavily covered in law school. So if anything it's more likely a paralegal will equal their employers than a PA. Which isn't very likely.

 

[eli20]

Shocked no one has called troll yet.

 

[BullDog4Eva]

Or, could someone who went through med school become a PA (it seems conceivable to me, idk why it wouldnt work out), and not have to do as much residency? I mean, a PA should get as much as experience as residency, given the PA practiced for a while.

If you went through medical school but haven't started residency yet, you would have already earned the title of "MD". Not sure why someone would then decide to pursue a PA after having earned their "MD".

I do know someone who almost finished his MD program but fail his boards several times so he went for a PA instead. His education as a PA was significantly shortened (I don't have the specifics, I just know he "didn't start all over"). Though he never explicitly says it, it seems to me that he regrets not earning his MD.

 

[Law2Doc]

If you went through medical school but haven't started residency yet, you would have already earned the title of "MD". Not sure why someone would then decide to pursue a PA after having earned their "MD".
....

There is this common confusion that shows up the the gen res board frequently that folks who finished med school should somehow be entitled to work as a PA if they decide not to go through residency. It seems to make sense to those who can't land a residency, and want to get a job. It's not, however, accurate. PA is not a stop on the path to becoming physician any more than paralegal is a stop on the road to being a lawyer. They are different paths. If you want to be a PA you have to go to PA school and if you want to be a doctor you go to med school and never the roads shall meet.

 

[Evergrey]

Shocked no one has called troll yet.

Even if it is a troll, it's useful information that others with the same dilemma could use. 🙂

 

[g8orlife]

Shocked no one has called troll yet.

that's because he/she is not trolling. It's a valid question for a novel pre-med who is fully considering all of his/her options.

 

[g8orlife]

While being a resident and a PA both means that you practice under supervision, they are not equivalent.

Start with time investment first, there are very few PA's averaging >60 hours a week at work, and they're certainly unlikely to be running up to 80 hour work weeks like residents in many fields and many programs.

Second, time as a resident is not spent just in one aspect of a specialty. Working as a PA in a general pediatrician's office is in no way equivalent to the pediatric resident who is rotating month by month through the NICU, the peds ER, the adolescent clinic, the CVICU, the newborn nursery, PICU, and various specialty services such as heme/onc, genetics, nephrology, pulmonlogy or developmental pediatrics. For the resident who has just graduated residency, they've had a training program which is huge on both depth and breadth of their specialty, and as such (if they choose), are ready to be successful in a wide variety of roles in their field. For the fresh pediatrics resident that includes everything from entering general practice to going into a fellowship (further subspecialty training after residency) in fields ranging from neonatology to allergy/immunology. There's simply no way that the time a PA has spent working is able to provide that diversity of experiences.

Third, the requirements for completing residency come from the respective certifying Board of the specialty in conjunction with the ACGME and the respective Residency Review Committee within the ACGME. These are national standards and residency programs undergo periodic review and accreditation procedures to certify that they're providing the minimum number of experiences to produce adequately trained physicians. The oversight is entirely lacking for a PA in practice. Even if being a PA was fairly similar to residency there's simply way too much variation between individual physician practices to reliably determine if a PA's experience was equivalent to a similar time frame in residency. Further, none of those agencies overseeing residency have the time or money (or desire) to evaluate every single individual case. Regardless, the burden would be on the ex-PA/resident to prove it was, and I think most people would look at the process and figure they had enough on their plate as it was with residency and give up before they even started.

As a PA-C en route to MD, I agree 100% with this extensive post, and I look forward to increasing my knowledge base in each aspect.

 

[g8orlife]

...... A physicians assistant is not "worse", but....

just an FYI:
PA = Physician Assistant.
PA =/= Physicians or Physician's Assistant

 

[Joe1294]

Thank you to everybody who answered. Some of you were very informative, and this really helped. But some were mean, like a troll would seriously spend the time to ask such detailled questions. I was half-expecting to be maybe called a little dumb for this, but not a troll >_> I was just very uninformed about this. I would really like the presitge and especially the knowledge of a doctor, but the lifestyle of a PA probably suits me better, and I think that's where I might go. This thread has made a lot of things more clear to me xD

 

[AsianPersuasion]

I don't know about PA- MD bridge but I've read somewhere during my research when I was looking into PA profession and did a whole portfolio for the my project etc and saw that they are currently trying to make a bridge for PA-DO at lake erie college of osteopathic medicine.

I remember reading it on the PA forum and I believe ( i could be wrong) they were going to make PA attend 1 year of med school, and than residency...

correct me if I'm wrong but thats what I've read.

 

[Law2Doc]

...I would really like the presitge and especially the knowledge of a doctor, but the lifestyle of a PA probably suits me better, and I think that's where I might go. This thread has made a lot of things more clear to me xD

You don't want to spend the time and effort to become a doctor for the "prestige". Honestly, outside of premed boards like SDN, the prestige is not as significant as you would think. Most average americans don't respect or idolize americans the way that premeds do. They have no idea of the training involved. You get the picture whenever you see an interview with someone like Mike Tyson who when asked what he would have done if he couldn't box said he would have gone to med school.

Do some research to see what PAs and doctors actually do. Sounds like you don't really know if you think it's pretty much the same knowledge base. After you do that, then decide what you want to do. But pick based on the role you see yourself in, not some non-essential factor like prestige. You will hate your life if you spend a decade of school and training for the prestige, only to see your next door neighbor, the contractor or plumber get the equivalent respect at age 25.

 

[Law2Doc]

just an FYI:
PA = Physician Assistant.
PA =/= Physicians or Physician's Assistant

Well, physician assistant is called that because the role is to be a physician's assistant, so your point, although accurate, is kind of a nitpick.

 

[Law2Doc]

I don't know about PA- MD bridge but I've read somewhere during my research when I was looking into PA profession and did a whole portfolio for the my project etc and saw that they are currently trying to make a bridge for PA-DO at lake erie college of osteopathic medicine.

I remember reading it on the PA forum and I believe ( i could be wrong) they were going to make PA attend 1 year of med school, and than residency...

correct me if I'm wrong but thats what I've read.

I have no idea if what you describe is true, but would suggest that PA to DO is not a discussion for the pre-allo board. The pre-osteo board would be the proper place to discuss this. However I would suggest that someone doing this route would not be well situated to sit for Step 1 at the end of second year having skipped the first year of med school. The PA programs simply don't teach the same quantity or breadth of material as the first year of med school, so you'd have a near insurmountable hole to make up during the scant summer break.

 

[g8orlife]

I don't know about PA- MD bridge but I've read somewhere during my research when I was looking into PA profession and did a whole portfolio for the my project etc and saw that they are currently trying to make a bridge for PA-DO at lake erie college of osteopathic medicine.

I remember reading it on the PA forum and I believe ( i could be wrong) they were going to make PA attend 1 year of med school, and than residency...

correct me if I'm wrong but thats what I've read.

Yeah, you misread it. At LECOM-Erie, it's one year less of med school. 1st three years are roughly the same as any other, but the 4th year core rotations are squeezed into the 3 summers of the program (btw,there are no elective rotations [no time for them] ; only the core rotations)

 

[Law2Doc]

Yeah, you misread it. At LECOM-Erie, it's one year less of med school. 1st three years are roughly the same as any other, but the 4th year core rotations are squeezed into the 3 summers of the program (btw,there are no elective rotations [no time for them] ; only the core rotations)

That makes slightly more sense, but is still logistically problematic because they you'd either have to be interviewing before your core rotations in 3rd year (which might make it difficult since you wouldn't have a dean's letter describing your evals or any 3rd year grades, let alone have exposure to most of the specialties), or have a glide year after 3rd year where you would have to interview and wait around for the match. Not really advantageous. If those were the choices, I would just do the normal 4 year path and not worry about PDs not knowing how to handle my application.

 

[Grom]

Yeah, you misread it. At LECOM-Erie, it's one year less of med school. 1st three years are roughly the same as any other, but the 4th year core rotations are squeezed into the 3 summers of the program (btw,there are no elective rotations [no time for them] ; only the core rotations)

That sounds to me like a lot like the med schools with 3 year programs in Canada (Calgary and McMaster). No summers, one year shaved off. I don't quite know how it's done however.

 

[badasshairday]

And they get more free time, and don't have to be on call.

FYI. PA's definitely take call. They are often 1st call, so they are woken up a lot more often then the physician.

 

[Disinence2]

I agree! Most of the PA's I've met on the hospitalist services work significantly more than their attending counterparts.

We work a lot with PA students on our clinical rotations and let me assure you the experience is significantly different.

If you want to be a doctor go to medical school. There are no short cuts

 

[Maybeknot]

"Hi guys,

I don't have a medical degree, but I've watched *every* episode of ER, every episode of House with that hot chick, most of the first four seasons of Scrubs, and a few episodes of Gray's Anatomy. Do I have to do ALL of medical school and residency, or will they let me skip a few years?"

 

[nlax30]

Don't just assume that lifestyle as a PA is better. It can certainly vary depending on the field you're in. I know a couple in outpatient clinics (derm and FP) who prob keep a <40 hour work week but of course salary will suffer. I also know some CT surgery PA's who are putting the same or more hours as the doc. They are there before the doc rounding, first to scrub to start harvesting, last to scrub out, etc....

Like others have said you need to choose, PA or Physician.... two separate education paths to separate careers. In my mind one of the advantages that a PA has (in case you haven't already thought about this) is that you have more flexibility in switching specialty fields. You can do surgery and if a few years down the road decide to lighten your schedule it's possible to join a clinic or something. Know several PA's who have changed "fields" at least once during their careers.

 

[g8orlife]

In my mind one of the advantages that a PA has (in case you haven't already thought about this) is that you have more flexibility in switching specialty fields. You can do surgery and if a few years down the road decide to lighten your schedule it's possible to join a clinic or something. Know several PA's who have changed "fields" at least once during their careers.

One of my classmates went from Critical Care Med/ICU to Plastic Surgery to Family Practice .... all w/in her first year after graduating. She changed until she found a specialty she really enjoyed and that fit her lifestyle.

 

[45408]

FYI. PA's definitely take call. They are often 1st call, so they are woken up a lot more often then the physician.

Definitely. Where I am, they come in and see every consult when we call them, regardless of the time we call (although we only call for urgent ones at night). Then they call their staff, and the staff only come in if it's something that needs an operation/intervention.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

Definitely. Where I am, they come in and see every consult when we call them, regardless of the time we call (although we only call for urgent ones at night). Then they call their staff, and the staff only come in if it's something that needs an operation/intervention.

oh so resident calls PA instead? btw Prowler do you have a trauma unit at your facility? if so, does the PA work with you guys on trauma cases etc in trauma bay?

BTW, yeah sorry I misinterpret that I got it the other way around haha. I thought they only did 1 year.

 

[g8orlife]

oh so resident calls PA instead? btw Prowler do you have a trauma unit at your facility? if so, does the PA work with you guys on trauma cases etc in trauma bay?

BTW, yeah sorry I misinterpret that I got it the other way around haha. I thought they only did 1 year.

During my trauma surgery rotation, the attendings had the surgery residents or trauma fellows run the traumas. The attendings mainly stepped in whenever the residents/fellows forgot something or were about to do something incorrectly.

If the resident/fellow on-call for that day had his/her hands full with another case/procedure, the trauma PA on-call ran the trauma instead. But, the PAs were always working in the traumas regardless.

 

[Colonel Kurtz]

As a second year PA student who is nearly finished clinical rotations and ready to graduate, I have come to recognize that the PA is nothing at all like a Doctor. The earlier poster hit the nail on the head when he said PAs are trained to know "what to do" where Doctors are trained to "why to do it."

PA school is very much like going to a vocational technical training school (I admit that I've never attended vo-tech before). There is no time spent on medical sciences. The core of PA school is "clinical medicine" and "h&p." Neither of the two core courses would prepare one to be a Doctor. Clinical medicine is taught as a series of "if condition, then give this drug." Classes are taught by practicing PAs with 5-10 years experience. The didactic year of PA school could literally be done online with the student sitting in his bedroom at home in his pajamas. The "H&P" part is done by talking and examining fellow students. There is no real patient experience. There are no faculty working with students during the H&P class. Just a teacher who sits in a room and watches on a camera but says nothing. Again, one could find a friend, buy the book and practice at home on each other. Same results. Less money.

The second year or clinical year has a serious flaw that keeps it distinctly inferior to medical school. Because there are low or no criteria for opening a PA school, you see them opening up all over the place where you'd never expect them. Community colleges are now offering the PA degree. Liberal arts colleges now want in on the game. Colleges caught wind of the scent of money and found an easy path to ramp up tuition. Unfortunately, a liberal arts college or community college does not have relationships with the medical community to establish clinical sites for its students to be trained. Such was the case for my program. It makes serious buck off PA tuition but doesn't have rotation sites for its students. Many students miss half of a four week rotation because the school waits until the Friday before the starting Monday to tell the student they couldn't find a site. Then the student is on his on. I wonder how many medical students were forced to find their own clinical rotation sites. Sure if you have preferences for a particular geography or specialty, you might need to find your own site. However, this is a standard fare for PA programs across the country. So, when people on this board and the PA Forum say the PAs get excellent clinical education, it simply isn't true. The PA EDUCATION profession is becoming the "aluminum siding business" of the fifties. Low barriers of entry, easy money, attracting the lowest quality employees.

Finally, while I have enjoyed some rotations with Doctors who were fantastic, there are many Doctors view PA education as a disappointment for their career. In the order of greatest to least prestige, Doctors want to teach fellows, then residents, then medical student, then PAs, then NPs. Many Doctors who were teaching on my clinical rotations were "strong armed" by they school faculty who called in favors or they were just doing a personal courtesy. The Doctor's heart wasn't in it and the clinical experience should not have been counted for credit. The school doesn't care because they made their tuition buck. The students are disappointed but know they will probably still graduate and put the disaster behind them.

Please, do not compare PAs with Doctors. Their training and knowledge are worlds apart. You won't find any criticism of the PA profession on the PA Forum board because the moderator will ban posters who leave critical remarks.