reply about the "problems with asians" thread

[kmnfive]

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for some reason the thread wouldnt let me reply... so im just gonna make a new thread. im sorry for the trouble...

anyways,,, ok.. here i go,

so it seems to go like this, i mean with all do respect i agree with the first perspective. asians are.... well for the most part... in it for social status and for the money. most of them. i do not .. i repeat.. DO NOT know allot of asians whom pick career paths for the compassion for the work itself. im asian. korean and jap mixed. so im pretty much the most asian you can get next to chinese.

koreans? YEA.. theyre greedy. money grubbing status hungry hogs. most of us. we are.. its true. you just look at what most korean college students study.

engineering.
med
law
law
business
accountingly
law
med
med

the list goes on. perhaps its just some bitter sense of competition that we asians take for position.

japanese?

yes.. they are also very academically competitive. and yes most of them go into mainstream jobs. med, law, whatever.

now does that mean every asian is in it for the cash? no not really but i would be willing to bet at least more than half are.. give or take a few percentages.

i live in california, so thats how it is here. im not sure about other places. but cali is prob one of the states with the largest population of asian cultures next to maybe NY.

.. well now.. you see as luck would have it, people do not appreciate stereotypes and biased perspectives. why? .. hmm.. maybe they are true? not to infer that my intentions are TRULY altruistic. because they are not. not completely. and to be honest im not sure what you other asian people think about medicine. i mean... really.. REALLY think about it. because to me it seems like some kind of tool we use to gain some status symbol. whats the greatest line a person can tell another when asked .. "what do you do??.. " . and you reply.. oh a doctor. (trying to be modest).

yeah.. i think asians are pretty goal oriented.. given that we work pretty hard to get where we are. living in a country that provides the freedom that most of our countries do not.

but is it our fault? possibly. maybe.. but sometimes, we cannot be in control of everything that happens in our lives, and as humans we take heed, and force a survival instinct and try to come out on top. or provide future generations with better lives.

but do you think some asian people take it too far? yeah sure why not. you know, people always talk so highly about asian people as if they work so hard to get where we are. i mean it some cases that maybe true, but we all do it for a reason. and to look at it from an objective point of view, yeah we are no better than the rest of america. we try our best and subscribe to the whole idea of the american dream. get educated and make the most money you can. or open up a business and take advantage of the free market this country offers.

you cant sit there and say that its unfair. because thats circular reasoning. isnt life unfair?

stop complaining and deal with it.

find a way around it.

the more you think about it, the more nothing is going to get done.

act, do not think.

make it happen.

if you think its unfair, do somethng about it. dont be like the rest of the asians who sit on their butts and complain about this country. its better than where we have come from, and if you dont like it here, go back. see how you like life in the old country.

being asian, but being raised in the states has opened up my eyes. i see the american perspective of life, and also the bitter truth of how asians view life as well.

and to be honest, yeah.. most asians are pretty selfish. greedy, goal oriented to make something of themselves. but at the same time.. arent we all?

isnt this what life is about? making a difference? taking risks, solving problems. growing old and realizing the important things.

dont waste your time grumbling over the inconsistantcies of the american educational system, because its wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than the one we have in our own country.

think about it. why the heck did you come here to goto school in the first place? to eat burgers and hotdogs? to count the mountains and admire the american flag? give me a break.

 

[thanks_sdn_2005]

Hi everyone.

I tried to stay away from sensitive subjects here at sdn, because all i really want to learn here are how to get info about med school, premed. and "DAILY FEEDBACK FROM EXPERIENCE PEOPLE WHO WORKS IN HEALTH CARE".

Mr. kmnfive,
Some of your points are very true about Asian ! ??? (I guess) but I really don't like the way this subject to aim at Asian.
(quote from your post)
"now does that mean every asian is in it for the cash? no not really but i would be willing to bet at least more than half are.. give or take a few percentages. "
ASIAN GROUP ONLY ? please !!!
I think it is better if you rewrite that (ALL PEOPLE, black,white,hisp.american indian,blue,yellow,green,orange...are in medicine because of that !
I am willing to bet. Most of us are in medicine because we love and dream of the days when we can help others, enjoy of what we can do, and some of us are in for money while helping others too.
Sorry if i am a little sensitive, but i don't agree with your post about asian this..asian that...because all of us here at sdn are aiming at the same star...which is "medicine" 🙂
I respected your honesty, but don't generalizes one particular group only.
I will admit to you, that i changed my career from computer to premed: 85% passion to help peole and 15% money !
I worked more than 8 years and making over 65K/year at my computer job. I don't change to premed because money. Especially i am thinking about "primary health care, after med school, (if i get in 🙂 " the salary for primary health care is about 90K to 100K/yr. I am sure if i stay with my computer job, i will make around or more than 100K in the next 7 yrs. Instead of preparing the next 7 years in school without my income!
?don't generalizes one particular group? please !

Mr.Chankovsky...
I really don't want to pick you out, but I disagree with your post and especially the last paragraph regarding "African American students with 25, 3.35 got in" something like that...I have a lot of friends who are black, white, asian. I see most of my black friends who didn't asked to be born in a gheto town, and didn't asked to be turn down ?most of the time? when they look for a job either, and beside, it is not like blacks got in with a 2.24 gpa and you got rejected from med school with a 3.80 gpa.
I am sure some of Asian, black,white who got in med school under 3.34 gpa too.
When you get in med.school, I hope you don't whining because a black med student got a healthier patient and you got a very sick patient, where you have to do more work...please! I think med students are very busy helping patients especially during rotation. Therefore, no time for whining?
Please, look around...there are quite stereotype that black people have to go thru. everyday life...(of course, we are getting better now)
my point is...just do the best you can do and i am very sure, if you put all your energy in your gpa (3.6 to 3.7+ with great ec and show your compassion to adcom ) I am sure there will be more than a few med. school love to have you.

In case you wonder, I am Asian too. Life in America is much better than where I came from and I can?t appreciate enough for being in this country! Therefore I enjoy everything I have and try to do better with my life. I am not whining. (well, try not too.)

Just my 2 cents opinion.

John.

 

[jlee9531]

i got a headache reading that OP.

im not gonna write out a whole long thing cause i would most likely go on forever thus not helping my headache.

i just want to say i disagree strongly.
to the point im almost ashamed of you being our asian "representative."
and tho you said
"koreans? YEA.. theyre greedy. money grubbing status hungry hogs. most of us. we are.. its true. "

and was kind enough to make sure you didnt sound like an ass and not include ALL of us im grateful.

sure sounds like you are a true believer in that "model minority" concept, but next time.....just say you are a greedy money grubbing status hungry hog and don't make a generalization which then involves me when people know that i am korean.

i am offended. you may know your life and the life of your friends and acquaintances, but dont try and sound educated about asians outside of the ones you have seen. unless you do want to get acquainted with us folk that have had to eat out of trash bins and find shoes during the hard times in our lives.

whatevers...im done.

 

[Gleevec]

kmnfive, you need new friends then.

 

[kmnfive]

i never said all of my friends do so. in fact i dont really consort with too many people like that. i know a few of them well, but the examples that i have provided were people who live around me, people that i know of, but not know too personally.

perhaps my intuitions and judgements about the korean population is a bit harsh and pedestrian given my young age.

but from what i have seen it is still evident that most asian people are worried about $ beyong anything. make me a liar. show me something to prove otherwise.

jlee, im sorry about your hard life, but you are one of the few that fall within the exceptions.

i never said all koreans, i said most. and i said koreans in socal.

whatever, im not gonna argue with you.

good day everyone.

 

[johnstoner]

this thread is so BS...everyone wants to succeed, everyone wants to live comfortably...why single out asians as being money hungry? Just because you are asian does not give you the right to bash your own race.

 

[ZanMD]

I'll offer some input as I have some good friends who are asian. Of course it's unfair to stereotype every single asian person, and to say every asian is a money-grubber is completely unfair.

That being said, The friends that I have do prioritize education and money very high on thier life list. They are very dedicated to thier studies/jobs. However, based on what I've seen, it's more a product of pushy parents and thier society. They do see the american ideals as something to work towards. I'd also like to point out that the suicide rates in japan are astronomical. Could this be due to the high pressures of suceeding in school/life? Possibly. For those who spend thier lives trying to please others, or measure suceess by an imaginary scale that is impossible to live up to, they have to bear that cross, and it ultimately signifies nothing. All the money in the world can't buy happiness. too many people realize this after it's way too late.

 

[Hermeone]

let's begin anew

 

[essbe]

A good elixir for the self-hating/race-bashing Asi-Am:

http://www.2tongues.com/

 

[ZanMD]

Some of the things he mentioned do ring true for some asians. Nothing is absolute, but there is truth in it. Denial ain't just a river.

 

[destined_wind]

Originally posted by johnstoner
this thread is so BS...everyone wants to succeed, everyone wants to live comfortably...why single out asians as being money hungry? Just because you are asian does not give you the right to bash your own race.

Yeah it does!

 

[ZanMD]

Originally posted by johnstoner
this thread is so BS...everyone wants to succeed, everyone wants to live comfortably...why single out asians as being money hungry? Just because you are asian does not give you the right to bash your own race.

Yes but certain asian cultures push it to an artform. I can only speak absolutely on Japan, but parents in that country DO push thier kids to suceed. You spend as long as it takes studying to get good grades. Everything else is secondary. I'm not being racist, I'm speaking from experience, and these are words spoken by japanese friends- ALLL of them. It's not racist, it's simply a cultural fact.

 

[kmnfive]

the Japenese Commision for Civil engineering requires all buildings over 2 stories to have retractable nets that depoly during times of finals and college exams.

myth? am i lying? make me a liar.

look it up online.

 

[USFpremed21]

What an interesting thread... actually it's somewhat repulsive.
I am a Korean premed but I didn't choose this path SOLELY in pursuit of money or hunger for status. Of course those things are nice benefits to being in the field of medicine, who would deny that? I am saying that if money is your only goal to pursue medicine, you are going to have a hell of a time getting through your tough years of premed, med school and residency years.
I am not here to speak for my fellow Asians because everyone has their own stories but for me, I was not pushed by my parents to go premed and I was not always the hard-working, goal oriented, model minority. In fact, I spent a good amount of my late teenage years up to my 21st birthday, trying to break out of that mold by doing anything and everything to overturn that image.
Not all Asians are money hungry and not everyone is after the status symbol or bragging rights. Some of us are really interested in medicine and helping people as much as cliche as that may sound. I had the privilege to travel to a rural village in Mexico this past summer where I got to work alongside American doctors and nurses who were there to provide free health/dental care to some of the poorest people in Mexico. There, I saw the true meaning of medicine - its power to heal, treat and restore people's hopes and lives. It was far more insightful and meaningful than talking about falling insurance reimbursement or the trend of rising malpractice in U.S.
Some Asians(along with other races) do choose to go into medicine in pursuit of money and prestige - and more power to them. But some of us are actually motivated by the true meaning and power behind medicine as well. To make such generalized statement by using "majority of Asians" phrase to make it sound "less-generalized" is not a very good representation of how Asians, or anyone, decides to go into medicine. All of us are here because we want to succeed in life and get to where we want to be in the future. Wherever the motivation came from(money, status, desire to help people, parents) depends on each person's circumstances and their background, not from stereotyping. That's my take on this issue.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by kmnfive
the Japenese Commision for Civil engineering requires all buildings over 2 stories to have retractable nets that depoly during times of finals and college exams.

myth? am i lying? make me a liar.

look it up online.

If this is true, why dont you post the link kmnfive? The burden of proof is on you, since you made the comment. I myself am highly skeptical, but you can convince me otherwise with a reliable link.

 

[Buster Douglas]

Originally posted by kmnfive
koreans? YEA.. theyre greedy. money grubbing status hungry hogs. most of us. we are.. its true. you just look at what most korean college students study.

What's wrong with you people?

I never understood why anyone belonging to a 'group' of people would perpetuate negative stereotypes about themselves.
"Judge not, lest ye be judged, Jackass" Matthew 7:1

 

[supersunny]

Originally posted by Gleevec
If this is true, why dont you post the link kmnfive? The burden of proof is on you, since you made the comment. I myself am highly skeptical, but you can convince me otherwise with a reliable link.

i put most of those words into a google searches and they yielded no results similar to what kmnfive posted. i'm interested if someone finds it though...

 

[indo]

Originally posted by johnstoner
this thread is so BS...everyone wants to succeed, everyone wants to live comfortably...why single out asians as being money hungry? Just because you are asian does not give you the right to bash your own race.

Not everyone. Us native americans just want to be drunk all the time and bad drivers.

Stereotyping an entire continent of people then following up with "i'm asian [so I 1) am ALLOWED to make ******* comments about asian people and 2) have firsthand knowledge of how ALL people of Asian decent act and think]" doesn't make you any less of a jackass.

 

[kmnfive]

Gleevec, im not here to lecture you on the basis of asian-american culture, of course my lack of evidence makes me look like a jackass, but i'll look around and find the article for you when i find time.

anyways, i never said that money was my main focus, and i never said it was my sole intention to become a doc either. im just saying, the people who think it IS UNFAIR that asians dont get admitted to med schools with average stats because 1/4 of the med school classes are asian are stupid. because you sit there and complain and play it out like asian people are saints. we're not.

its just funny to see the reasoning that some asian people have. TYPICALLY KOREAN people. its funny to see the blind eyes speak and ask for directions when they know the way by heart.

and i never said ALL i said most. MOST. it infers a good majority. it doesnt mean all. should i put a dictionary definition about what MOST means?



man?y ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mn)
adj. more, (m?r, mr) most (mst)
Being one of a large indefinite number; numerous: many a child; many another day.
Amounting to or consisting of a large indefinite number: many friends.

n. (used with a pl. verb)
A large indefinite number: A good many of the workers had the flu.
The majority of the people; the masses: ?The many fail, the one succeeds? (Tennyson).


... sigh.


ok whatever, i tire of this.

 

[indo]

...see the blind eyes speak and ask for directions when they know the way by heart.

Did we just step into a kung-fu movie? wtf

 

[USFpremed21]

What an interesting thread... actually it's somewhat repulsive.
I am a Korean premed but I didn't choose this path SOLELY in pursuit of money or hunger for status. Of course those things are nice benefits to being in the field of medicine, who would deny that? I am saying that if money is your only goal to pursue medicine, you are going to have a hell of a time getting through your tough years of premed, med school and residency years.
I am not here to speak for my fellow Asians because everyone has their own stories but for me, I was not pushed by my parents to go premed and I was not always the hard-working, goal oriented, model minority. In fact, I spent a good amount of my late teenage years up to my 21st birthday, trying to break out of that mold by doing anything and everything to overturn that image.
Not all Asians are money hungry and not everyone is after the status symbol or bragging rights. Some of us are really interested in medicine and helping people as much as cliche as that may sound. I had the privilege to travel to a rural village in Mexico this past summer where I got to work alongside American doctors and nurses who were there to provide free health/dental care to some of the poorest people in Mexico. There, I saw the true meaning of medicine - its power to heal, treat and restore people's hopes and lives. It was far more insightful and meaningful than talking about falling insurance reimbursement or the trend of rising malpractice in U.S.
Some Asians(along with other races) do choose to go into medicine in pursuit of money and prestige - and more power to them. But some of us are actually motivated by the true meaning and power behind medicine as well. To make such generalized statement by using "majority of Asians" phrase to make it sound "less-generalized" is not a very good representation of how Asians, or anyone, decides to go into medicine. All of us are here because we want to succeed in life and get to where we want to be in the future. Wherever the motivation came from(money, status, desire to help people, parents) depends on each person's circumstances and their background, not from stereotyping. That's my take on this issue.

 

[raining4days]

kmnfive,

What you stated is called "anecdotal evidence." The problem with your post is that you're generalizing the Asians *you*, the individual, have encountered in your area. This is *your own* experience with Asians. Certainly, not mines.

.....unless there is real data (not speculations on AAMC data) showing that the North American Asians are what you say they are....

 

[kmnfive]

raining thats absolutely correct. agree with you 100%.

i never wrote my stuff to be the premier truth of all mankind. but apparently these people on SDN take this **** to heart.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by kmnfive
Gleevec, im not here to lecture you on the basis of asian-american culture, of course my lack of evidence makes me look like a jackass, but i'll look around and find the article for you when i find time.

If you dont have evidence for something as suspect as that, then dont say it. I cant respect anything you say if you are willing to throw out a fact, tell other people to find it, and then are unable to put up the link yourself. This is not a good way to convince people you are right, and of that you are not doing so good a job on this thread at all.

 

[pureofheart]

i am a child of asian immigrants. i was raised in a very strong christian background. i feel that by being a physician, i would be able to bring comfort into the lives of those in need (i hope to serve immigrant populations).

i personally know lots of asian med students who are also christians, and who also see their calling as a way of doing christian service.

again, just anecdotal evidence. but let's not malign an entire race out of cynicism either.

 

[Chankovsky]

hey mr. thanks_sdn_2005: Go to the AAMC website and check out the stats for the breakdown of african american students entering medicine. All I'm saying is that I believe people, of any race, with better numbers should get in.

 

[thanks_sdn_2005]

Mr. Chankovsky
I saw the #s at amcas already. yea...and ?
I also know that when adcom pick their applicants ...there are many factors int it too. Not just GPA #.

when adcoms select applicants...
example:

student X with 3.35 gpa and with great personality, great EC, a lot of experience in volunteers and compassion, and show greatly dedication to medicine.

student Z with a gpa 3.85 and with ok personality, ok EC, little experience in volunteers and small compassion, and somewhat deciates to medicine and whining a lot..

I got the feeling the adcom may pick the one with 3.35 gpa...
personally, I would too...

so sometimes, great # does not add up to be a good physician either...
from your quote "of any race, with better numbers should get in."

again...just my 2 cents...

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

So adcoms aren't really choosing applicants based on their race but rather based on great ECs/personality?

Well, I would like to believe you but the people who actually practice Affirmative Action are telling me that they are choosing applicants based on race. They say they can't meet their critical mass quota if they use factors such as ECs/personality/income level. They say they have to use race.

 

[....]

""student X with 3.35 gpa and with great personality, great EC, a lot of experience in volunteers and compassion, and show greatly dedication to medicine.

student Z with a gpa 3.85 and with ok personality, ok EC, little experience in volunteers and small compassion, and somewhat deciates to medicine and whining a lot..

I got the feeling the adcom may pick the one with 3.35 gpa...
personally, I would too...""


Mathmaticaly the average white person must have those negative trait you mentioned above and black people on average must have all of the good qualities. If that is not the case then there is either preference given to black people for being black, or the numbers would not work out. SO either you want to defy the laws of averages or you want to call all whites OK in the personality department. Thats racist to me.

 

[AznTrojan]

with all due respect to the OP.. but are you ******ed? 🙄

 

[Chankovsky]

Mr. thanks_sdn_2005: if you reason your argument to the entire population of asians and blacks that applied, then asians would have some serious character deficiencies for that many blacks to get in with much lower numbers.

 

[Petitpois]

I think that one has to look beyond who "gets into medical school." You can talk about numbers and race and wanting everything to be equal and fair, but when it comes down to doctors and patients, there needs to be more of a representation of certain minority groups. Being intelligent and competent is important for being a doctor, but if you tell your patient what to do and they don't listen to you or don't trust you, then have you really done them any good? Even if you had a great MCAT score and GPA, and then great grades and board scores in med school, etc etc, there might lots of patients that won't comply with you that will comply with another physician just because of their race. An African American patient in an ER setting may feel more comfortable with an African American physician. That's reality. That's of course not to say that competency doesn't matter, but you can't just funnel in the people with the higher scores into medical school either... don't we want to have a healthcare system that works for and serves the PEOPLE'S needs?? I completely support medical school's decisions to accept people based on their minority status. Sorry for my long rant.

 

[ZanMD]

While I have to agree that you certainly can't lump all asians into the side of power hungry, money grubbers, There is pressure brought to bear in certain eastern societies that to suceed in life, you must suceed in your chosen profession. This is not the absolute, as there are no absolutes. I'm sure every asian is jumping all over this thread in apprehension saying "what are you talking about, I'm nothing like that". But perhaps you know someone like this, or at the very least you're familiar with the concept.

If someone said all americans were arrogant and fat, you'd probably get the same objections. Certainly there are a lot of americans who are obnoxious and fat, but not everyone is. Point being, I see this thread as an overraction to a percieved stereotype that while by no means applying to every asian, may have it's roots in truth. Just something to keep in mind. I have japanese friends, filipino friends, and chinese friends. Some are overachievers, some are not. But those who are, acknowledge they had a lot of pressure from thier parents to succeed. There's always a kernel of truth to every myth.

Chotto yamate kudasai

 

[kmnfive]

interseting.

so with that in mind we should take heed to offer an equal amount of all races so that the patients will find comfort with their own race?

funny how this has turned into something totally different.

 

[ZanMD]

I've always seen affirmative action as reverse racism. Sugar coat it with terms like "equal opportunity" if you want, but on a truly level playing field, race shouldn't come into play. If you live in american, you aren't black,white, asian,native, or european, you're "american" and have the same opportunities as everyone else. If you're "underpriveledged" or disadvantaged, that's one thing, but that should be separated from racial lines. I think society has become so politically correct that affirmative action is the only way to appease minorities, and prevent them from crying out racism.

A good doctor is a good doctor regardless of race.

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by ZanMD
I've always seen affirmative action as reverse racism. Sugar coat it with terms like "equal opportunity" if you want, but on a truly level playing field, race shouldn't come into play. If you live in american, you aren't black,white, asian,native, or european, you're "american" and have the same opportunities as everyone else. If you're "underpriveledged" or disadvantaged, that's one thing, but that should be separated from racial lines. I think society has become so politically correct that affirmative action is the only way to appease minorities, and prevent them from crying out racism.

A good doctor is a good doctor regardless of race.

thats most likely because without AA then noone would do anything about the underprivileged and the disadvantaged. its much too difficult to come up with policy that focuses on socio-economics. AA is only used because underprivs or disads people are more than likely to come from minorities rather than the dominant group.

 

[....]

"its much too difficult to come up with policy that focuses on socio-economics."


Umm how bout the fafsa. The IRS has your parents tax (and therefore income) information for years and years. Thats all you need.
AA is about politics, not money or adding diversity. politics.

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

Actually, according to the americus the AAMC filed for the Gratz case, medical schools can't use social economic status as a factor because rich URMs are scoring worse on average than poor non-URMs on the MCAT.

 

[jeffsleepy]

Originally posted by essbe
A good elixir for the self-hating/race-bashing Asi-Am:

http://www.2tongues.com/

aww man... I went to their "concert" when they came to Berkeley. I wish I could've fallen asleep but they were shouting too loud.

 

[modemduck]

KMN, you have some interesting comments on Asian-American culture. It sounds as if you have had some bad experiences with people from your own culture. What really led you to your conclusions about the "majority" of asian americans being money-hungry, power-greedy etc. I am really curious as to how you came to your decisions, b/c i think a lot of us disagree but if you just give us a little more info about how you (personally) reached your conclusions and let us see your logic it'll be easier to understand where you are coming from. Let me know whats up dude...

peace,
RA

 

[eun2408]

KMN save time and spend energy some palce else. Whatever experience you had it does NOT justify what you have said. Why do I have a feeling that you're just angry b/c you are not good enough to compete with other asians...Hmmm...just a guess.. Anyway if you're not happy don't go there. You don't have the right to generalize the whole community in your way..

 

[zero counter]

Let 'em post their opinions about races and their quest for the bling bling. He may be right, he may be wrong. We will never know unless we could read everyones thoughts.

We know that wide generalizations such as this one are most likely the result of some type of bad expereince or personal hatred towards the race. Shoot.....we aren't even sure of his actual race and may be saying that to offset any possible altercations between other board members crying racist.

 

[TMDSASgirl]

Most of the comments on this page is probably some of the most ignorant, racist, and immature S**T that I have read on SDN.

All white people good into medicine to help the poor. All black, Hispanics, and native Americans get into medical school b/c they are URM.... and lastly... all Asians do med for money.... BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,

All of this is a bunch of BS. Holier and Thou mentality. Find something better to do with your time.

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

All white people good into medicine to help the poor.

Never heard of that stereotype. There is a stereotype that all URMs go into medicine to help the poor. There is a correlation between being a URM and praticing in poor URM neighborhoods. I don't know how strong this correlation is, but I imagine that is where the stereotype comes from.

All black, Hispanics, and native Americans get into medical school b/c they are URM....

This stereotype is based on the facts that URM matriculants have significantly lower academic credentials, that there is a program that gives racial preferences to URMs and that the AAMC stated that 80% of URMs got into med school because they are URM.

and lastly... all Asians do med for money.... BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,

Never heard of this stereotype. The OP's statement was the first I heard of this. The stereotype is that Asians are "one dimensional" book smart applicants. Of course, this stereotype is around for a purpose. The adcoms originally used this stereotype to give excuse to discriminate against Jews in the 1920's and 1930's. That was the first diversity movement. This is good article on how the powers to be use "well rounded" as a subjective discriminating factor.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2378/

 

[kmnfive]

i live in so cal.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

What the previous poster said is right. A study confirmed it's NOT circumstances (socioeconomic factors) that are holding URMs back. I would say what it really is, but I really don't want to defend against the endless barage of flames that would result from it. The study compared MCAT scores of black kids with average household incomes of over $80,000 to white kids with average household incomes less than $30,000. The white kids STILL outscored the black kids...which means that the socioeconomic factor must play a neglible role at best (at least in terms of wealth...we can extrapolate household income to quality of schools attended, nutrition, and possibly several other factors).

I'm not sure if this study is referenced by Steven Pinker in The Blank Slate, but the study is in the same general area of research (research on aptitude, innate abilities, the optimal methods of measuring aptitude, etc). I would also like to cite The Bell Curve, but again...I think this would also warrant another barage of flames which would probably look like, "OMG!!! You racist!!! Why don't you just put on your white sheets and go to the local Klan meeting!!?" Both Pinker and Chomsky's research point to the strenth of nativism...in other words, aptitude outweighs circumstances. This blows a huge hole in the arguments of the liberals who immediately called Murray and Bernstein racist (those were the two authors of The Bell Curve) because they suggested there was actually an IQ differential between races...and the results of their study confirmed this (on average of course...nothing is absolute). They tried to discredit the study immediately after it came out..not even taking time to actually put the study to PEER REVIEW...something critical to all scientific studies (even in the social sciences).

Murray and Bernstein were brave enough to pursue a line of research that was so dangerous..that even private foundations were forced to deny grants to psychologists and neuroscientists that tried to conduct comparitive IQ studies between races... just because they're worried that it's not politically correct and they'll be labeled racist even if they pursue comparitive IQ research. Arthur Jensen's research also confirms these results...Dr. Jensen also did comparitive IQ research. To put this in perspective...intelligence (an innate factor that is mostly genetic), would clearly outweigh socioeconomic background, upbringing, etc. Even if we reversed the roles of Student A (a URM) who grew up in Compton (a ghetto) and attended Compton High School...and Student B ..a non-URM from Darien, Connecticut who attended Phillips Andover Academy/Phillips Exeter/Choate Rosemary Hall/**insert elite prep school here**...the URM student would've still scored lower than the non-URM (on average).

I'll be back tonight to check this thread (and respond to the new tidal wave of flames that I can see forming out in the horizon). Right now, I'm up to my eyeballs in lab reports and midterms. If you guys want links, I'd be more than glad to go get them for ya. Just ask and consider it yours...I'm not typing from my home computer right now so I can't access the links I have saved on my browser at home.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

bumpity bump

 

[kmnfive]

i refuse to waste anyone's time with endless lectures and explanations of my own opinion, and opinions, as they come, are subjective. i accept that.


HOWEVER. i still think that asians should not be so tanked about having a bit more competition. life is unfair, suck it up, and cry about it later.

 

[calcrew14]

Originally posted by kmnfive
...... life is unfair, suck it up, and cry about it later.

That's what most of any first generation do. So the second or succeeding generation, who are better equipted, should be able to do as well too. What bothers me is that when the second generation exercise their right to fight for it the conventional way, people would ignorantly describe the action as "whining."

Who invented the game that all of these "whiners" are trying to play along? 😕 🙁 🙄

 

[kmnfive]