Reputation Matters!?

[Tatowedges]

So I was driving with my mom today and she was telling me that to help her select her primary care doctor with Kaiser, they gave her info about the doctor's educational and work history, i.e. medical school, residency program, and employment.

Is this kind of thing going to happen more and more in the future? If that's the case, it seems reputation (albeit a skewed one, since the public doesn't really know which med school or residency is competitive) will matter, even if you go into primary care.

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[Captain Fantastic]

Some insurance companies award "grades" to physicians and send that info to patients. The docs get graded on things like ordering superfluous tests, outcomes, etc.

Of course this can be good for the doc as well. "Pay for Performance" incentives are big these days. Docs that meet the goals can get big bonuses from the insurance companies.

 

[MessyJessie]

Your mom should pick a PCP based on whether or not she (or he) warms up the speculum ... that's all that really matters!

 

[NervousNed]

 

[foofish]

Your mom should pick a PCP based on whether or not she (or he) warms up the speculum ... that's all that really matters!

...and uses those stirrup warmers...

 

[LizzyM]

Information is also available about ever physician licensed in the US through the AMA Doctor Finder (you do have to narrow the search to State and last name).

Reputation doesn't mean much to the general public. I suspect that, for the most part, it works against physicians who are foreign medical school graduates (also known as FMG) . This is not to say that FMG do not provide good care but there is a lot of prejudice out there.

 

[armybound]

it might tell you where they were educated but it doesn't tell you if they finished first or last in their class

 

[dutchman]

yeah, I am sure people will take their time to find out the hierachy of medical schools and residency programs before they choose their doctor.

 

[Bito42]

As a med student at a school that people would often "quote" , I will tell you that it doesn't matter unless it's an Ivy league school. And that's usually for specialties anyway (ex: perdiatric cardiology, fetal surgery, geriatric neurology...you get my point). Just get in and the rest is cake.

 

[45408]

I picked my doctor out based on what he looked like in his picture and I picked well. I really like my PCP. He happened to have graduated from my alma mater, but honestly, where he graduated was NOT important to me.

 

[etf]

i didn't pick my doctor, and i haven't even seen him in my life - i haven't been to the doctor in like 3 years, and back then i was still seeing my pediatrician. but i do know he went to harvard undergrad, ucsf med school and residency, and that he enjoys going to restaurants and evidence based medicine. why kaiser tells me this i don't know. and i don't really care.

 

[StringerBell]

So I was driving with my mom today and she was telling me that to help her select her primary care doctor with Kaiser, they gave her info about the doctor's educational and work history, i.e. medical school, residency program, and employment.

Just a (biased) opinion here, but after having worked in health care for a number of years, I've found that Kaiser has a less-than-stellar reputation, especially in my area. There's a stigma attached to them, for whatever reason. So Kaiser seems to be spending a lot of time/effort/money to improve that reputation...that's probably at least part of the reason why your mom received that kind of information. They want to assure her that she is receiving a high level of care.

Locally, Kaiser advertises heavily on television, radio, and on billboards, particularly with their emphasis on preventive medicine. (The "Live Well. Thrive." campaign.) Now, personally, I know a few Kaiser employees and physicians who are excellent, so I'm not badmouthing them myself. But for whatever reason, they're working really hard to garner patient trust.

 

[Law2Doc]

As a med student at a school that people would often "quote" , I will tell you that it doesn't matter unless it's an Ivy league school. And that's usually for specialties anyway (ex: perdiatric cardiology, fetal surgery, geriatric neurology...you get my point). Just get in and the rest is cake.

Some Ivy league schools aren't even ranked in the top 30 med schools (Dartmouth, Brown), and one Ivy league school doesn't have a med school. So I sure wouldn't use "Ivy league" as my barometer for top prestige or reputation. But I certainly agree with the notion that school prestige, while it matters slightly, matters a whole lot less than people on pre-allo would make you believe.

As to the OP's quote -- there are numerous great med schools which aren't "brand names" the public would know. The public knows college sports so go to a med school affiliated with an NCAA powerhouse undergrad if you really are concerned with public opinion.

 

[45408]

As to the OP's quote -- there are numerous great med schools which aren't "brand names" the public would know. The public knows college sports so go to a med school affiliated with an NCAA powerhouse undergrad if you really are concerned with public opinion.

Yeah, UCSF, UAB and Pritzker won't really strike Joe Schmoe as being top research medical schools.

 

[Towelie]

Yeah, UCSF, UAB and Pritzker won't really strike Joe Schmoe as being top research medical schools.

UAB??

 

[notdeadyet]

Yeah, UCSF, UAB and Pritzker won't really strike Joe Schmoe as being top research medical schools.

Agreed.

Introduce yourself to people for a day as coming out of Princeton U med school. The next day, introduce youself as coming from Washington University.

The fact that patients will be much more impressed by your pedigree from a medical school that doesn't exist probably calls the realistic worth of a school's reputation into question.

 

[morriske]

...and uses those stirrup warmers...

there are stirrup warmers?

 

[Falco2525]

Yeah, UCSF, UAB and Pritzker won't really strike Joe Schmoe as being top research medical schools.

I dunno everytime I say Pritzker people are like cool....but if I say University of Chicago they are like wow...however this is among college people...the person off the street who isnt educated might not know U of C but they probably dont care anyway

 

[Mr. Tee]

UAB??

UAB is hot newzz in da South, you betta rekognize shawty.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

Yeah, UCSF, UAB and Pritzker won't really strike Joe Schmoe as being top research medical schools.

Personal experience: forget about Joe Schmoe, students and faculty in a certain department at UCSF don't even know what or where UAB is!

(They took a guy from UAB in the following match, so that'll change quickly.)

 

[GooglieGoo]

As a med student at a school that people would often "quote" , I will tell you that it doesn't matter unless it's an Ivy league school. And that's usually for specialties anyway (ex: perdiatric cardiology, fetal surgery, geriatric neurology...you get my point). Just get in and the rest is cake.

Geriatric neurology, aside from not barely being considered a real specialty, has to be the least selecive specialty ever. It's not like neurology is a hot specialty for that matter. And speaking of which, "family medicine" is a specialty as well. It's amazing how much you know for being an "almost MS3." Apparently that often quoted medical school really teaches you well.

 

[Towelie]

UAB is hot newzz in da South, you betta rekognize shawty.

I honestly didn't know they had a medical school.

 

[MessyJessie]

Just a (biased) opinion here, but after having worked in health care for a number of years, I've found that Kaiser has a less-than-stellar reputation, especially in my area. There's a stigma attached to them, for whatever reason. So Kaiser seems to be spending a lot of time/effort/money to improve that reputation...that's probably at least part of the reason why your mom received that kind of information. They want to assure her that she is receiving a high level of care.

Locally, Kaiser advertises heavily on television, radio, and on billboards, particularly with their emphasis on preventive medicine. (The "Live Well. Thrive." campaign.) Now, personally, I know a few Kaiser employees and physicians who are excellent, so I'm not badmouthing them myself. But for whatever reason, they're working really hard to garner patient trust.

Agreed!!! I have Kaiser and I feel like I'm listening to a promo for Kaiser when I go to my OBGYN ... My doctor seriously said to me "Kaiser Permanente has developed the BEST omega 3 oil ever specifically for your situation." And it didn't sound like she was looking out for my best interest, but rather trying to convince me of why I was with Kaiser (as if I had any choice anyways).

Kaiser represents all that is evil and wrong with American healthcare.... money money money money

 

[p9142]

I dunno everytime I say Pritzker people are like cool....but if I say University of Chicago they are like wow...however this is among college people...the person off the street who isnt educated might not know U of C but they probably dont care anyway

I agree with this completely. It all depends on how you market your school. No one knows what Pritzker is, but everyone knows that the University of Chicago is one of the best schools in the country.

 

[dshnay]

Agreed!!! I have Kaiser and I feel like I'm listening to a promo for Kaiser when I go to my OBGYN ... My doctor seriously said to me "Kaiser Permanente has developed the BEST omega 3 oil ever specifically for your situation." And it didn't sound like she was looking out for my best interest, but rather trying to convince me of why I was with Kaiser (as if I had any choice anyways).

Kaiser represents all that is evil and wrong with American healthcare.... money money money money

I agree, Kaiser is horrible in terms of they'll give you the cheapest possible treatment, for instance if you ask for a colonoscopy which is quite expensive they'll give you barium enema which is cheaper

 

[Law2Doc]

I agree with this completely. It all depends on how you market your school. No one knows what Pritzker is, but everyone knows that the University of Chicago is one of the best schools in the country.

Everyone in the industry would know (physicians, premeds, family of these). But Joe Schmoe off the street wouldn't unless their undergrad put a team into the final four. And Joe Schmoe is far more likely to be the dude shopping for a doctor at random than a physician (who would just rely on word of mouth from colleagues as to "who's good" and never get into educational details anyhow.)

 

[p9142]

Everyone in the industry would know (physicians, premeds, family of these).

No, I was talking about everyone as in every person in America. OK, maybe that is going a little far, but most people know that University of Chicago is one of the best universities in the nation. What I was trying to convey was that if prestige is your thing, you should go to a school where people know the undergrad/grad program is prestigious. UCSF obviously doesn't cut it. If you want people to be wowed by your school go to: Stanford, Yale, Harvard, Penn not UCSF, WashU, or UWash.

 

[notdeadyet]

If you want people to be wowed by your school go to: Stanford, Yale, Harvard, Penn not UCSF, WashU, or UWash.

If you say "Penn" to your average American, I reckon more would think Penn State than University of Pennsylvania.

 

[Tatowedges]

I agree with the above mentioned thoughts on Kaiser. I've never been given a list of docs along with their credential when I chose my PCP. I'm not with Kaiser.

And the whole reputation thing...the public will know big school names (ivy leagues + a few others) and schools big on sports. I agree with everyone above who said this is a less than ideal way to pick a physician. I had never heard of it being done before, so just throwing it out there. Appreciate all the input.

 

[LizzyM]

Schools with recognizable names are "familiar" as in "yeah, I've heard of that school." I strongly suspect that most lay people, when choosing a primary care provider, want someone who communicates well verbally (good command of spoken English and an easily understood accent), is conveniently located, accepts their insurance, and has an office location that suggests some level of cleanliness and prosperity. (how would you feel about seeing a Harvard or Hopkins grad working in a conveniently located strip mall in an office full of dirty, mismatched furniture that looks like it came from a junk shop and some half-dead houseplants?) School attended is a secondary matter.

When it comes to specialists, I think that some measure of successful outcomes (quality) trumps just about everything else. My little town had two orthopedic surgeons. One was a foreign medical grad who spoke English with a heavy accent, the other was an American whose patients never seemed to recover well. As teens we knew that if we went to the ER we should ask for the first guy by name! In non-emergency settings, the recommendation by one's physician is important. In those cases, physicians tend to know their colleagues by reputation which may or may not include where they trained.

 

[Law2Doc]

No, I was talking about everyone as in every person in America. OK, maybe that is going a little far, but most people know that University of Chicago is one of the best universities in the nation.

Wait until you meet the average lay person, on the wards. People not in the loop with the whole college thing (which is a huge chunk of the population, you will soon find) will not know anything about U of Chicago other than that it is probably in Chicago (and even that may be a guess ). So no, most people in America will not know squat about the school, unless they see the team on TV. It is a mistake to look at your educated friends and family and assume the rest of the nation is going to have the same perception.

 

[Mr. Tee]

If you say "Penn" to your average American, I reckon more would think Penn State than University of Pennsylvania.

So say "upenn" and you won't have that problem.

 

[Dr.Watson]

yeah, I am sure people will take their time to find out the hierachy of medical schools and residency programs before they choose their doctor.

the only people that do this are rather obsessive physicians and their family members. the websites give age, med school, residency, fellowship, etc, what boards they have taken (it's kinda strange the discrepancies between purported specialty and boards taken), and any legal action taken against them with outcomes. then they go see a few physicians (usually this involves picking a surgeon) to decide who they like best. i know, i'm one of those family members. we're weird and definitely far, far from the norm. so there's going to be .0001% of the population that cares and takes it into consideration.

 

[Mr. Tee]

I honestly didn't know they had a medical school.

I hadn't even heard of UCSF until just last year. Now it is my top choice school, even over name brands like Harvard and Yale that I grew up idolizing.

 

[Wizard of Oz]

I don't think that reputation matters much among the 125 accredited med schools in the United States. People choose docs who do a good job and don't make them feel like a reimbursement or number in line.