reputation of cali programs

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jsmart

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hey folks:
everyone knows stanford, UCSF, etc. have programs with great reputations. are there any programs out there that get overlooked?
being from the east coast, i don't have an idea of the reputations of these schools. i'm going out to visit CHLA and USC in january. was wondering if there were any other programs with good reputations i was missing or if someone could put these programs into perspective for me. for instance UCSD, the kaiser programs, oakland childrens, etc.
any and all help would be appreciated.
jsmart

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Coming from a California medical school I have come to learn a lot about the California residency programs. Here is the sense I have gotten....

Each program is what it is, meaning, like every other state, there are programs focused on being small, community-based, and there are programs focused on being large, research institutions. You can't go wrong with many California programs, but these are my thoughts on them...

UCSD - I don't know much about it. I have heard that it is great, however, many I have talked to say that their residents aren't very happy and that the pediatrics department has been struggling for decades. Apparently many faculty are constantly threating to leave and UCSD's relationship with San Diego Children's Hospital is on-again, off-again from year to year.

Children's Hospital Orange County - Medium sized, community-based program. I've heard their residents are very happy and they get a great well-rounded education. I've heard some academic pediatricians question the quality of their faculty and their teaching.

UC Irvine - Smaller program. Good reputation, but not the best.

Harbor UCLA - Small, county program. Although it is small, I have heard GREAT things about the program. Apparently the research and teaching are great, given their small size. Residents have a lot of autonomy and are well-prepared for general pediatrics or fellowship training.

CHLA - Large, high-volume program. Residents work harder, longer hours than most programs around the country, but they learn A LOT and the teaching is great! Great research opportunities, however, not a research powerhouse.

UCLA - Definitely its reputation for being a research-heavy institution preceeds it. They have a much lower patient volume than CHLA, and many residents tell me that they learn more from independent study than from actual patient care. Some subspecialties are not represented (eg. pulmonology), but some subspecialties are the best in the world.

USC - Small, county program; not what it used to be. Many subspecialties are not represented. The faculty is decent and very friendly, however, not sure the educational experience is of the highest caliber.

Kaiser Los Angeles - Very small, close-knit program; community-based. Residents tell me that it is very good for general pediatrics training, however, I've heard they aren't the best prepared for fellowship.

Stanford - Large, research-heavy, tertiary care program. I've heard that the residents are well-taught and well-prepared for general pediatrics and fellowship, however, I've heard the patient exposure is VERY tertiary, if not quartenary.

UCSF - Large, research-heavy program. I have heard great things about it, but I don't know a lot.

Children's Oakland - Large, community-based program. Everybody I have talked to seems to regard Oakland as the greatest hidden treasure in the country. Not many people know much about it, but residents love it there and the teaching is apparently phenomenal. Great for general pediatrics and/ or fellowship training.

UC Davis - I don't know anything about it.

I know there are other programs that I didn't mention, but these are the biggest, most well-respected programs to consider. I would say the best programs in California that an East Coaster should consider are... CHLA, Stanford, UCSF, and Oakland; maybe Children's Orange County if you are wanting a community-based program. Though I'm not too impressed, some would insist on including UCLA and Harbor UCLA.
 
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yes, thanks so much for your post.
anyone else have any opinions?
thanks
 
I agree that Oakland Children's is a great program. I grew up in the Bay area and done a few sub-I's in California. I am a quite a northern Cali girl. The residents seem very happy and the hospital has lots of great speciality care. The residents have to go to Kaiser Oakland for the well baby nursery and some other ob/baby care bc of course there is no OB at the hospital. I have heard from residents that you can get lost in the program and hide bc it is so big.

I think UC Davis is a fantastic program and under looked because it is in Sacramento (not the greatest place in the world to live). But I think the quality of the program is well worth living there. I did a sub-I there and loved it. It is a medium sized program with great teaching and lots of gen peds and speciality training. I thought the attendings were very approachable. The PICU and NICU are both quite large and busy. The residents work hard, but they seem quite happy.

Kaiser Oakland is a very small program and has it's good and bad points about being small. The residents are all quite close and look out for eachother and they have a good relationship with the attendings. You still get difficult exciting cases because it is a Kaiser center. But the PICU and NICU are small, but if you are looking for a smaller program I think it is a good choice. You get free lunch everyday!And the hospital is in a very fun area with great food and bars.

Good luck everybody!
 
Just a small correction regarding CHLA...

Actually CHLA has the 5th largest pediatric research budget in the nation, which exceeds even that of UCSF and UCLA. The only problem wit CHLA is that the research does tend to lean a bit more heavily towards Oncology. SO if Oncology research is an area of interest, then CHLA should definitely be on an applicants list.
R
 
Ryan,

Thanks for the correction. I knew the CHLA research budget was big, but I didn't realize it was that big. I don't seem to see many publications coming out of CHLA, but perhaps I just haven't paid enough attention; or perhaps I'm not reading the oncology journals. 😉

Later!
 
That was really helpful. I grew up in Cali and am attending Touro University College of osteopathic medicine, but not up to date on all the programs.

Just out of curiosity, anyone know about White Memorial? Can't find much info on it.

I think I would be absolutely thrilled to match at any of the California programs.

Best wishes with interviews!
 
I don't know much about White Memorial, however, everyone I have talked to has strongly advised that I not apply there, including one of our dean's who knows the program well. Sorry that's not of much help, but all I can say is beware, it's apparently a pretty bad program.
 
Thanks. I kind of had a feeling that was the case. The website is vague.
 
anyone know about this program?
only thing i have heard is that they are really really busy, and one resident said that it is a more grueling program than most. just wanted to know if anyone else had any insight!!
 
I have also heard weird things about UCSD Peds. I need to cancel some interviews and was thinking about not going there... can anyone else commend on it? Thanks!
 
This may be a silly question to some but I'm an IMG so I am not sure about this: I was wondering, if you do your pediatric residency in one state (say Texas) can you practice in another state (California) when you're done with your residency? Would you have to take any extra steps with the Medical Board of California to get a license to practice in Cali after residency?
thanks
 
I have also heard weird things about UCSD Peds. I need to cancel some interviews and was thinking about not going there... can anyone else commend on it? Thanks!

My advice would be to definitely check out UCSD if you can. I also heard some funny things about it, however, I was there last Monday and I really liked it A LOT more than I thought I would.
 
This may be a silly question to some but I'm an IMG so I am not sure about this: I was wondering, if you do your pediatric residency in one state (say Texas) can you practice in another state (California) when you're done with your residency? Would you have to take any extra steps with the Medical Board of California to get a license to practice in Cali after residency?
thanks

You can practice in any state once you have completed and passed all 3 Steps of the USMLE. However, you need to file an application and pay for each state that you decide to become licensed in. For example, if you do residency in Texas you will need to file an application and pay for a license there. Then, if you decide to go practice in California afterwards, you will need to file an application with the State of California medical board and pay their license fee as well. However, you don't need to take any additional exams or training just to get individual state licenses.
 
Originally Posted by desiree
This may be a silly question to some but I'm an IMG so I am not sure about this: I was wondering, if you do your pediatric residency in one state (say Texas) can you practice in another state (California) when you're done with your residency? Would you have to take any extra steps with the Medical Board of California to get a license to practice in Cali after residency?
thanks
California has weid rules in order to get ur ca license they will need a orgignal copy of your diploma, it has to be from a california aprooved med school which they accredit on a individual school basis
its a big mess if you want to learn more about the specifics caribbeanmedicie.com has a lot of info about caifornia in their forums
 
I am a resident at UCLA. Here are my thoughts:

The balance between gen peds and tertiary exposure is perfect. When I interviewed, I wanted to go to a tertiary center as I wanted to specialize, and I didn't understand how much I'd be leaving behind by being too heavy on the tertiary side. We spend several months each year at Cedars, a community hospital, and Olive View, a county hospital.

UCLA
At UCLA, interns carry about 4-7 very complicated patients at a time. Here we have almost every "zebra" diagnosis imaginable. Many services have many pre or post transplant patients (esp. GI), which is good or bad depending on what you like. We have caps on all teams- when reached, the remaining patients go to hospitalists. Call at UCLA is q5. We have a team that admits patients from the ER, so the call team handles issues on the floor- it is great for learning what to do when a very sick "zebra" patient has arrythmias, pain, respiratory distress etc. We generally get 1-3 hours of broken up sleep and interns consistently leave by 1pm post call. There is a morning report and noon conference each day, fairly well attended and generally very good. There is no pulmonary service, but electives can be done at other hospitals. Another con is that the nursery rotation isn't that well run with no delivery experience, but this is more than made up for at Cedars. The PICU (generally 1 mo 1st and 2nd yrs, 2 wks third yr) and NICU (only 2nd and 3rd yr- cedars 1st yr) are again very zebra heavy, but both great experiences with very sick kids.

Cedars
At Cedars, we see mainly general pediatrics, but many subspecialties and surgical subspecialties are also well represented. Patients stay for a much shorter duration with high turnover. On q4 call, the team spends very little time on the ward and most of the time admitting patients. It is not uncommon to admit 10-14 patients a night. We generally get 0-2 hours of sleep on call and leave on time. Teaching is amazing, with morning report and noon conference each day as well as an extra teaching session for about 1.5 hrs twice weekly. We do PICU here 2nd and 3rd yr with great exposure to more general intensive care and great post op cardiac care. We do NICU all three years in this huge center-lots of sick kids and plenty of feeders and growers- less intense than UCLA. Nursery- fantastic experience with resusitating babies (~10 deliveries/24 hrs) and assessing murmurs, resp distress and other newborn issues.

Olive View
This county hospital has very few inpatients and mainly serves as exposure to outpatients and ER. A different subspecialty has clinic daily, generally with attendings from UCLA. Volume can be very high in the winter and can be low in the summer. The ER experience is great with a lot of autonomy and procedures, especially as a senior. There is an AM presentation by residents or medical students each day. Call for interns is q4 until 8PM.

Residents
I absolutely love the residents at this program. Everyone is incredibly supportive and so much fun. So many people have done amazing things, lots of MPH folks, lots of substantial previous work internationally. I couldn't have asked for better people! 😀

Mentoring
Great mentors who are fantastic at providing support and guidance. They are able to find just the right people at any of the campuses or even other programs that will help with career planning/advice.

Call
We generally have less call than other big academic programs- q5 at UCLA and lots of call free time beyond intern year.

Fellowships
Many residents stay on as fellows at UCLA in various departments. Generally, people who want to do fellowships go to outstanding programs of their choosing. Lots of opportunities to do research in residency.

Volume
There is plenty of volume and little time to read intern year (as at all programs I would imagine), with more time to read and explore electives as 2nd and 3rd years.

Food
Free food on all campuses either at conferences or by meal card. 🙂
 
UCSD - I don't know much about it. I have heard that it is great, however, many I have talked to say that their residents aren't very happy and that the pediatrics department has been struggling for decades. Apparently many faculty are constantly threating to leave and UCSD's relationship with San Diego Children's Hospital is on-again, off-again from year to year.

UC Davis - I don't know anything about it.


Well, I did a subI in both. UCSD, you hit that one right on the spot. Lots of important people there who think they dont need the politics that comes with being part of UCSD. I could go on and on but basically I didnt like it at all. By all means, if you ask them, they think they are the creme of the creme. They are very research oriented too. One thing to consider is that San Diego as a city is also not what it used to be. Traffic plain old sucks too. I really wanted to like this place but it was what it was...

UCDavis- residents are great, hospital is great. I felt some attendings have an attitude but most are nice. Sacramento is not pretty but it is cheap. NIGHTFLOW!!!! it just makes a world of a diff. If you are considering it. Stay there, look around, the city is the big but. If you like it, it is a great place.
 
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