Reputation of undergrad (Montclair vs Rutgers)

[mixolyd]

Curious what you guys think. I have a philosophy degree from William Paterson Univ in NJ. Not a great school, but I had a high GPA. I'm looking into clinical/counselling programs and so looking into schools in NJ where I can get a psych bachelors.

I know Rutgers NB has a great program but I'd much rather go to Montclair for multiple reasons.

1 - Rutgers is a huge school... I don't like huge schools and would rather avoid the parking nightmares (i'll be commuting) as well as the huge classes which would primarily be taught by grad students.

2 - New Brunswick is a really crappy town. Even though I'm commuting.... I'd want to avoid it

Montclair (I think) has a decent psych program, smaller classes taught by Ph.Ds and is cheaper BUT Rutgers has a national reputation whereas Montclair? I'm not sure. Definitely not as good as Rutgers. What have you guys heard about the school?

I know I shouldn't make my decision based solely on reputation. But I would rather not get my psych degree from a school which isn't really known to be a good school. I'm not sure if that's the case though.

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[Marissa4usa]

To be honest, I would suck it up and go to Rutgers, not because of the reputation in itself but especially if you are interested in research, Rutgers will offer you much better opportunities in gaining research experience and even doing your own projects. I have never heard about the other school and there are small liberal arts schools out there where professors are active in research but I think in general I think you might be better of at Rutgers.

Furthermore, not all classes are taught by graduate students. Often, PhD's teach the lecture part and TA's teach the labs or discussion sections, however, grad students do sometimes get to teach entire classes but you could avoid that by making sure to only enroll for classes taught by the actual professors.

Having said that, if you think that attending Rutgers will impact you in a way that might lower your performance, then it might be the smarter choice to attend the smaller school.

Edit: I just looked up the tuition rates and to be honest, with a difference of ~$1000 per semester that would not play a role in my decision which school to attend.

 

[psychmama]

I think I might be a good person to answer your question, since I went to MSU for undergrad psych credits and then to Rutgers Psyd. One difference: I already had a BA and an advanced degree in another field from a very good school when I decided to go back and attend Montclair State. I basically did a post-bacc in psych at Montclair.

I thought Montclair was fairly decent for undergrad psych, although not amazing. Rutgers, from what I've seen, is a better school. Still, assuming you go to Montclair and do very well in all of your psych classes there, develop relationships with profs, and do some independent study or research there, I think you'd be competitive if you want to go on and get a master's degree somewhere else (or at Montcalir). Montclair's reputation has improved a lot in the past 10 years. Also, I've known students who've gone from there to the doctorate programs at Rutgers (not just me, but a few others).

Bottom line: if it really makes more sense for you to do the psych classes at Montclair I think you'll be okay. On the other hand, Rutgers has a better reputation and more research opportunities. Don't be intimidated by the size without checking out what it has to offer.

 

[VeggieDelight]

Are you looking to complete another 4-yr baccalaureate program? If so, you might want to consider post-bac certificate programs like the one at Columbia. I have no idea how "worth it" these programs are in terms of cost or reputation-- maybe you can do a search on this forum-- but just thought I would throw it out there.

I've met psychology students from both WPUNJ and Montclair and worked at Rutgers (in the psych dept.). Montclair is a respectable school, but if you are already concerned about the reputation of your undergrad institution, the decision seems like a no-brainer. I understand your concerns, but you're at the point where you know what you want to do in graduate school, so picking the school that will maximize your chances of achieving your goals is of utmost importance. Rutgers has great faculty and highly regarded programs in both clinical and non-clinical areas. And as was already mentioned, the resources at Rutgers far surpass any other schools in the state (leave Princeton). Also, I don't know how many of your classes would actually be at the College Ave campus in NB since the psych department is on the Busch campus, which is actually quite nice.

 

[mixolyd]

I think I might be a good person to answer your question, since I went to MSU for undergrad psych credits and then to Rutgers Psyd. One difference: I already had a BA and an advanced degree in another field from a very good school when I decided to go back and attend Montclair State. I basically did a post-bacc in psych at Montclair.

I thought Montclair was fairly decent for undergrad psych, although not amazing. Rutgers, from what I've seen, is a better school. Still, assuming you go to Montclair and do very well in all of your psych classes there, develop relationships with profs, and do some independent study or research there, I think you'd be competitive if you want to go on and get a master's degree somewhere else (or at Montcalir). Montclair's reputation has improved a lot in the past 10 years. Also, I've known students who've gone from there to the doctorate programs at Rutgers (not just me, but a few others).

Bottom line: if it really makes more sense for you to do the psych classes at Montclair I think you'll be okay. On the other hand, Rutgers has a better reputation and more research opportunities. Don't be intimidated by the size without checking out what it has to offer.

Thanks for your response! I searched for Montclair around here but couldn't find any results outside of medical students, so I'm happy someone here has actual experience with the school.

I'm in a similar situation as you were.. doing the post-bac thing because of a 'whoops, I realized I'm going the wrong way' moment in my life. Though unlike you, my undergrad is not from a very good school. 😛 WPUNJ I think has a much worse rep than Monty, and rightly so.. though the philosophy dept. was awesome and I loved being there.

To be more specific.. I'm not aiming for research focused programs. My top choice is actually USUHS so I can do military psychology. I like their overall package, very attractive, and I'd like to retire early. I'm keeping my mind open and also looking into other schools that are balanced but lean on the clinical side. Not looking for 'top' programs but would like to get into a funded Ph.D program.. so that's my goal.

Given that my undergrad is from a "meh" school, I did think that going to Rutgers would be a good idea, but I'm more attracted to the smaller campus of Montclair. Coming from WPU, I enjoy the 'small college' feel. I like being able to speak with professors and develop relationships. I don't like big classes and cut throat environments.

"Sucking it up," as Marissa suggested, is an option.. but I gotta ask how much does the reputation of the school really matter when you're applying to programs?

 

[mixolyd]

Are you looking to complete another 4-yr baccalaureate program? If so, you might want to consider post-bac certificate programs like the one at Columbia. I have no idea how "worth it" these programs are in terms of cost or reputation-- maybe you can do a search on this forum-- but just thought I would throw it out there.

No, I would be a second bachelors student and wouldn't need all the gen eds. I saw Columbia before but way too expensive for me! Thanks for the recommendation though.

I've met psychology students from both WPUNJ and Montclair and worked at Rutgers (in the psych dept.). Montclair is a respectable school, but if you are already concerned about the reputation of your undergrad institution, the decision seems like a no-brainer.

well I'm only concerned because I don't know how much this will affect me.

Also, I don't know how many of your classes would actually be at the College Ave campus in NB since the psych department is on the Busch campus, which is actually quite nice.

Oh really? I heard parking for commuters at Rutgers is a nightmare.

 

[psychmama]

Oh really? I heard parking for commuters at Rutgers is a nightmare.

Parking is a pain, but you get used to it. I commuted to the Busch campus for many years. There are buses connecting everything. It's a pain, but doable. BTW, parking at MSU is no picnic either, although they've added more parking since I went there.

 

[psychmama]

To be more specific.. I'm not aiming for research focused programs. My top choice is actually USUHS so I can do military psychology. I like their overall package, very attractive, and I'd like to retire early. I'm keeping my mind open and also looking into other schools that are balanced but lean on the clinical side. Not looking for 'top' programs but would like to get into a funded Ph.D program.. so that's my goal.

One point I'd mention: within doctoral level clinical and counseling psychology, there really are no programs that are easy to get into, with the exception of a few professional schools, and most of those offer little funding and massive debt (and questionable match rates for internship). WHy do I say this? You need to be as competitive as possible to get into ANY decent doctoral program in clinical psych. there are varying ways to do this. One is to do your prep locally and kick butt. Another is to go to the best school you can, with the best reputation and resources. Both can get you to your objective. But you need to know going in what you'll be up against.🙂

 

[mixolyd]

One is to do your prep locally and kick butt.

That's my plan...to really kick some butt. Do admission committees take the reputation of the school into consideration when looking at your GPA? For example.. a 4.0 from MSU vs. a 3.5 from Rutgers.. would the person from Rutgers be seen as more favorable even though he has worse grades?

Also, curious about your experience at MSU. Could you please be more specific about why it was just a "decent but not amazing"? How were the professors? Did you learn what you needed to as a prep for a doctoral program? Were the classes very easy (I've been reading comments from students who say that MSU is a very easy school).

Thank you 🙂

 

[VeggieDelight]

One is to do your prep locally and kick butt. Another is to go to the best school you can, with the best reputation and resources. Both can get you to your objective. But you need to know going in what you'll be up against.

I agree, though I favor the former route only if the latter really is not feasible.

Do admission committees take the reputation of the school into consideration when looking at your GPA? For example.. a 4.0 from MSU vs. a 3.5 from Rutgers.. would the person from Rutgers be seen as more favorable even though he has worse grades?

To the first part of that, absolutely. However, it's not as cut-and-dry as saying a 3.5 at Rutgers is > a 4.0 at MSU. There are other factors they consider like the specific courses you take. If you take psychopharmacology as an upper-level course at MSU and counseling as an upper-level course at Rutgers, I would find the psychopharm more challenging. If it's the same or similar coursework at both places, I would assume that Rutgers would be looked upon more favorably. As far as MSU being "easy", I'm not sure. Rutgers certainly isn't, but it isn't cutthroat either.

 

[mixolyd]

Are you looking to complete another 4-yr baccalaureate program? If so, you might want to consider post-bac certificate programs like the one at Columbia. I have no idea how "worth it" these programs are in terms of cost or reputation-- maybe you can do a search on this forum-- but just thought I would throw it out there.

Just saw that FDU has a post-bac program though it's much shorter than Columbias (18 credits). Have you by any chance heard anything about it?


Edit: I'm now highly considering Rutgers given all the great feedback you guys gave. Thank you. One of the main perks is that Rutgers has a great selection of summer classes.. so I will be able to take 12 credits in the summer. Montclair has a very convoluted psychology program. 4 core classes that must be taken in succession separately before you can take level 300 courses. It's not a program made for those who want to finish fast...Oh well.

For those who have experienced Rutgers New Brunswick, could you tell me how difficult were the classes academically? I'm not dumb (well maybe a little! 😛) but I'll be taking 10 or 12 credits per semester while working part time, volunteering in a clinical setting and possibly volunteering in research too. So I have a lot on my plate since I want to apply in 1 year and I'm worried that Rutgers will be TOO good. Am I just over-worrying?

 

[aagman01]

You can get a lot of courses on the Bush/Livingston campus, which is in Piscataway and is easier to park. Conversely, you can park in PIscataway and take the shuttle to New Brunswick. Or, you could take a train/bus to New Brunswick and easily walk to classes you have in New Brunswick. One of my favorite tricks was to lock a bicycle up near some of the stores on rt.27 in HIghland Park , park near the bike (parking is usually easy in Highland Park) and bike to campus. If your smart about it, parking is not too bad.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I'm a midwest girl, so I don't know much about either of the schools in question (although, by coincidence, my mom is a grad of MSU). I just thought I would put my 2 cents in about the things that helped me get into grad school and then you can evaluate the programs in question accordingly.

1. I was able to get rec's from professors. If you have grad students teaching classes, it makes it very hard to get letters from profs. And letters from grad students essentially don't count.

2. I was able to work in a few different labs where the PI's got to know me. This was very helpful in obtaining good rec's.

3. And a bonus: My letter writers had good reputations themselves. At several of my interviews, interviewers said, "Oooh! You worked with Dr. X!" This was very impressive and probably got me a few extra interviews.

Hope that helps in some way!


Dr. Eliza

 

[VeggieDelight]

Just saw that FDU has a post-bac program though it's much shorter than Columbias (18 credits). Have you by any chance heard anything about it?

No, sorry. FDU's overall reputation is below that of MSU and Rutgers, but I have no idea about that specific program.

 

[psich]

Why do you want another bachelor's? Why not get a master's in psychology field or take a few undergraduate psychology courses as a non-matriculated student?

 

[mixolyd]

Why do you want another bachelor's? Why not get a master's in psychology field or take a few undergraduate psychology courses as a non-matriculated student?

Actually the only reason I was going to go through the whole 2nd bachelors route was so that I can receive financial aid (federal loans) but now that isn't happening. Rutgers, like most businesses, are out to make money. So besides the 38 credits required for a psych major, I would need 9 more credits of "liberal arts" even though I have a BA in philosophy.. so totaling 48 credits. Screw that!

I will probably do the non-matriculated route and take part-time classes so it's affordable. How many psychology credits would you say is a good number to have before applying to doctorate programs? I'm thinking of taking between 20-23 credits in time to apply for next year

 

[psychmama]

I will probably do the non-matriculated route and take part-time classes so it's affordable. How many psychology credits would you say is a good number to have before applying to doctorate programs? I'm thinking of taking between 20-23 credits in time to apply for next year

I had 22 credits; others I've known have gotten away with 16-18 credits. I think it depends on what courses you take.

I think you'll definitely want to take stats, abnormal, physiological/biological, either personality or history & systems. Other good ones are experimental, social, developmental, cognitive/learning theory. I'm sure there are others, depending on your interests.

My advice is to check the APA Guide to Graduate Study in Psychology or the Insiders Guide ( I think those are the names of the books). Take a look at some of the doctoral programs you might be interested in. They usually list the psych prerequisites they want you to have when you apply. Don't worry if you cannot take every undergrad psych class you want. You can demonstrate your overall knowledge on the Psych GRE, which many doctoral programs require. Pick up a couple of study guides at Amazon for that (in order to fill in the blanks) and you should be all set.🙂

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I will probably do the non-matriculated route and take part-time classes so it's affordable. How many psychology credits would you say is a good number to have before applying to doctorate programs? I'm thinking of taking between 20-23 credits in time to apply for next year

Def. don't go for another bachelor. Non-matriculated at most any acred. program should be fine.

 

[psich]

Actually the only reason I was going to go through the whole 2nd bachelors route was so that I can receive financial aid (federal loans) but now that isn't happening. Rutgers, like most businesses, are out to make money. So besides the 38 credits required for a psych major, I would need 9 more credits of "liberal arts" even though I have a BA in philosophy.. so totaling 48 credits. Screw that!

I will probably do the non-matriculated route and take part-time classes so it's affordable. How many psychology credits would you say is a good number to have before applying to doctorate programs? I'm thinking of taking between 20-23 credits in time to apply for next year

Actually, after looking through your undergraduate university's website it looks like they have a master's program in the field you are interested in, as well.

 

[mixolyd]

Thanks for the advice. I think my best bet is indeed to just suck it up and take classes at Rutgers... I was just admitted as a non-matric student so I'll be able to. Well... first I'll have to pay a $150 non-refundable fee to 'secure my seat'

I appreciate the good advice.

Do you guys think that taking some of the psych credits at a local community college is a bad idea? Will admissions see this as taking the easy way out? Not sure if it matters but the cc (Brookdale) is #1 in NJ. Since I did not hear from Rutgers, I went ahead and registered for this Fall for 3 classes. 2 of them are Intro to Psych split up into 2 classes, and the third is a Theories of Personality class, which I had to receive permission for since I don't have the pre-req. I certainly would not be able to take this many credits at Rutgers this semester so I think it's a good move, but I am concerned that where I'm taking the credits might make them look a bit tainted. lol.

I plan on taking plenty of upper level classes at Rutgers though. Hoping to end up with 16-18 credits from Rutgers and 9 from community college. Good plan?

 

[psychmama]

I think your plan is fine. Just do your best to get all A's.

 

[deleted176373]

Rutgers is the better school and if you are looking at improving your chances, every little bit helps. If you have great GRE scores I don't think it much matters where you go. However, if there is a question between you and another equally qualified client, sometimes something like this can make the difference.

Mark

 

[mixolyd]

Thank you both for your responses. 🙂

 

[mswtopsyd]

I have an MSW and 12 years clinical experience, but I was not a psychology major as an undergraduate. When I decided to get my doctorate in school psychology I had to take some undergraduate psych prerequisites. I took three (General Psych., developmental psych., and Theories of personality) at my local community college. I took an undergraduate Neuropsychology course at Rutgers. I got A's in all of them and am starting Rutgers school Psy.d. program in the fall. Hope this helps.

 

[UBD100]

If I were you I would go with Rutgers for sure. Montclair doesn't have a good academic reputation, my aunt who has worked in human resources and is now a headhunter refers to it as the "13th grade". There are many places that won't outwardly admit it but they look for people from top-50 schools, even though Rutgers isn't a top-50 school it has a good national reputation.

Curious what you guys think. I have a philosophy degree from William Paterson Univ in NJ. Not a great school, but I had a high GPA. I'm looking into clinical/counselling programs and so looking into schools in NJ where I can get a psych bachelors.

I know Rutgers NB has a great program but I'd much rather go to Montclair for multiple reasons.

1 - Rutgers is a huge school... I don't like huge schools and would rather avoid the parking nightmares (i'll be commuting) as well as the huge classes which would primarily be taught by grad students.

2 - New Brunswick is a really crappy town. Even though I'm commuting.... I'd want to avoid it

Montclair (I think) has a decent psych program, smaller classes taught by Ph.Ds and is cheaper BUT Rutgers has a national reputation whereas Montclair? I'm not sure. Definitely not as good as Rutgers. What have you guys heard about the school?

I know I shouldn't make my decision based solely on reputation. But I would rather not get my psych degree from a school which isn't really known to be a good school. I'm not sure if that's the case though.