Required PA Paid Work Experience

[Dolce7]

So without too much background, I'm wondering what actually counts towards what type of paid health experience PA schools are looking for.

Although I am considering both DPT and PA schools, I am leaning more towards PA. At this point with an undergrad degree, a certification in massage therapy, two years of prereqs followed by two or three years of PA/DPT schooling (should I get in), I am really not interested in earning a radiology certificate or the like. I know becoming a CNA is not time consuming, but it is also not something I would enjoy.

So I would like to know whether working as a physical therapy aide/tech count towards paid health care for PA programs? It's a stretch, but would massage therapy count at all, even as "alternative" hours?

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[deleted6669]

So without too much background, I'm wondering what actually counts towards what type of paid health experience PA schools are looking for.

Although I am considering both DPT and PA schools, I am leaning more towards PA. At this point with an undergrad degree, a certification in massage therapy, two years of prereqs followed by two or three years of PA/DPT schooling (should I get in), I am really not interested in earning a radiology certificate or the like. I know becoming a CNA is not time consuming, but it is also not something I would enjoy.

So I would like to know whether working as a physical therapy aide/tech count towards paid health care for PA programs? It's a stretch, but would massage therapy count at all, even as "alternative" hours?

it will vary program to program. most will accept p.t. aid. fewer will accept massage.
consider emt if you are looking for more hrs.

 

[Narnian]

I know in the state of Washington and Florida "Massage Therapists" are considered medical practitioners. They have to get licensed by the state. I know Washington counts this as HCE, but not sure about Florida. 😎

http://www.doh.wa.gov/hsqa/professions/Massage_Therapy/faq.htm

 

[Dolce7]

Thanks for the responses!

I know almost all states at this point regulate massage therapy (most states require licensing, mine requires registration through the state), so it's good news to hear that Washington accepts massage as paid work. I had my doubts because unfortunately with all of the therapists out there who believe in a "holistic" approach, aka, magic oftentimes, the profession tends to be discredited.

I actually heard back from a school in my state and they told me that both PT aide and massage count, so I'm pretty excited about that. Guess I'll just narrow where I apply to a bit, but I'm more confident now.

 

[deleted6669]

Although the state of wa. credentials massage therapists I would be very surprised if the u.wa/medex pa program accepts this as hce. they are a traditional "old school program" and really are looking for military and civilian medics, rn's, rt's, and medical assistants.

 

[Narnian]

Although the state of wa. credentials massage therapists I would be very surprised if the u.wa/medex pa program accepts this as hce. they are a traditional "old school program" and really are looking for military and civilian medics, rn's, rt's, and medical assistants.

They can not discriminate it though. I knew a lady who was accepted who was a massage therapist. She had other HCE as well, but massage was the bulk of her experience. She ended up failing out the first quarter, but she got a shot. I have heard of a few others with massage therapy backgrounds but it is a very small percent. Maybe around 1-2%

 

[deleted6669]

They can not discriminate it though. I knew a lady who was accepted who was a massage therapist. She had other HCE as well, but massage was the bulk of her experience.

Sure they can discriminate. it's their program and if they say we only take polish ballet dancers they can do it.
this is what their site says:

Minimum of two (2) years of paid, recent, full-time equivalent, hands-on experience in the direct delivery of medical care to patients (approximately 4,000 hours); examples might be LPN, RN, Paramedic, Corpsman, OR Current professional credentials and at least two (2) years of paid, recent full-time experience in an allied health field.

I have precepted for them for over 10 yrs. I really doubt they would take a massage therapist if that was their only experience. if in doubt, call them and ask.

 

[Narnian]

I am pretty sure I met someone that only had massage therapy as their HCE. I remember because my friend had a Biochem degree and was a medical assistant and was slamming her because she was just a massage therapist and had no degree. He was shocked...

I could ask Ruth when I see her next month... but

I just found it right on the MEDEX website:


Q: What types of clinical experiences qualify?
A: Examples of what can be considered as clinical experiences are; nursing, medical assistants, emergency medical technicians, paramedics, and military corpsman. Other experience includes, but is not limited to, community health aides, physical therapist, licensed massage therapy and, experience in clinical research. For more information about allied health fields that may satisfy the direct hands on patient care experience requirement, please visit the American Medical Association website.

They probly never send you the massage therapy background students because you would eat them alive on their emergency medicine rotation.😀

 

[deleted6669]

Q: What types of clinical experiences qualify?
A: Examples of what can be considered as clinical experiences are; nursing, medical assistants, emergency medical technicians, paramedics, and military corpsman. Other experience includes, but is not limited to, community health aides, physical therapist, licensed massage therapy and, experience in clinical research. For more information about allied health fields that may satisfy the direct hands on patient care experience requirement, please visit the American Medical Association website.

They probly never send you the massage therapy background students because you would eat them alive on their emergency medicine rotation.😀

wow, ok I guess you're right.
and yup, they would be toast on an em rotation.
I expect pa students to be relatively comfortable with paramedic and rn level skills day 1 of rotation. I should be teaching them suturing, lp's and procedural sedation and the workup of chest pain in a 70 yr old with a complex hx, not how to draw blood and take vital signs.

 

[sarjasy]

...not how to draw blood and take vital signs.

Serious question, not trying to prove some sort of point. Why are things like this taught in PA school (e.g. taking vital signs)? Isn't the expectation that these kinds of things are known upon entry? Does it vary from one school to the next?

 

[deleted6669]

Serious question, not trying to prove some sort of point. Why are things like this taught in PA school (e.g. taking vital signs)? Isn't the expectation that these kinds of things are known upon entry? Does it vary from one school to the next?

yup. old school programs take paramedics and nurses. many new programs take candy strippers.

 

[Dolce7]

I did contact my first school of choice and told me that both massage and physical therapy tech qualify (they require 2000 paid hours and a 3.3 avg GPA). I can understand why massage therapy is questionable paid experience work, given the vast majority of massage therapists out there (I know this from personal experience). However, I will have a BA in foreign languages with a 3.57 GPA in Dec, and I am going to begin taking prereqs this semester as well (FL isn't exactly filled with science classes 🙂).

I know how very competitive it is to get into PA school, and I will be trying make myself as competitive as possible. I'm not trying to turn this into a "what are my chances" thread, but I would really appreciate some sound advice.

Massage therapy has really led me to be interested in a career in health care. I plan to put as much time into getting straight A's in my science classes as necessary, and I know I can pull it off with tutoring from my boyfriend, going in during office hours, and tutoring on campus. As I still have an interest in physical therapy, I plan on getting a position as a physical therapy tech/aide within the next several months. I also plan on doing volunteer work at a senior center giving chair massage, volunteer as a piano teacher to underserved elementary schools, and hopefully (if I can get enough funds) go on a month long trip to a developing country to do some sort of medical care work. This should put me at about 3500-4000 hours of paid experience between MT/PT aide, and probably 500-1000 hours of volunteer work.

I plan on doing this over the next 3 years before applying to schools. So if I need to get an EMT certification I would probably need more time than this, but if that is what it takes I will definitely do that. So if I am able to accomplish all of this with a science GPA in the 3.8's or above, would I be competitive? Should I go ahead and plan on getting an EMT certification? My main hesitation is the fact that I will be racking up in student loan debt and my area seems to be a bit saturated with EMT's, as well as around the country from the looks of it.

 

[deleted6669]

p.t. asst is good experience as well but be aware some of these jobs require certification.
sounds like you have a solid plan. probably don't need the emt if the p.t. asst job works out. good luck.

 

[deleted6669]

We learned to draw blood and take vital signs in medical school. Why would that be pre-requisite knowledge?

historically pa schools expected students to come in with some prior experience upon which to build so you weren't starting from zero. it's a different applicant pool than folks who decide to go to medschool. I expect more from pa students on em rotation than ms-3's.
for many med students ms3 rotations are their first experience seeing pts. and that's fine so we teach them the basics.
for pa students the idea is that they have a prior background that we are fine tuning and adding new skills to.
for example a former er nurse, R.T. or paramedic should have an easier time on their em rotation than a 25 yr old medstudent who has focused on the mcat, etc for yrs.

 

[Dolce7]

Question answered

 

[deleted6669]

I understand what you're saying, but I'm just wondering whether or not all PA schools are like the one you work at, it sounds like? I live in Colorado and I'm specifically looking at the two schools that offer PA training: Red Rocks Community College, and CU Denver. CU Denver's average GPA is 3.8 and I know that it's extremely competitive there, but they don't officially require paid work experience (although it's suggested). Red Rocks requires 2000 hours of paid experience, but they emailed me back saying that both MT and PT aide qualify. So are these schools just telling me that these types of work qualify now, but later when I do apply, they'll just overlook my application? I know that some schools look more for GPA than experience and vice versa. So should I just plan on applying to the schools that look more heavily on GPA? Or does that not exist in reality?

Edit: From what I've read elsewhere, no one seems to be saying that working as a CNA is a bad idea, so I'm really wondering how that work experience is more beneficial than working as a MT/PT where you spend all of your time with patients, writing SOAP notes, evaluating their problems, and treating them.

red rocks and denver are very different types of programs looking for different types of applicants. if a program said that they will accept your current experience then you are in good shape.
some programs rate experience in tiers when comparing applicants. jobs which require significant schooling and entail major responsibility like rn, r.t., paramedic, etc are tier one. things like medical asst., cna, etc are tier two. this only comes into play after they have screened other factors like min gpa cutoffs, completion of all prereqs, etc
you want to make yourself the best possible applicant so maximize hce, gpa, gre, community service, etc and get good letters of rec.
good luck.

 

[Croooz]

Hey EMEDPA been awhile.

What are some of the "old school" programs out there? Would AACC in Maryland still be considered old school? I remember when Ramos was there it was but was wondering if the climate has changed as they sometimes do when under new management.

 

[deleted6669]

dude, where you been?
yup, I think it's still the same.

 

[FireCloud9]

emedpa,

Around here, if one looks at PA school admissions statistics, you would note that the acceptance range in age is quite large - ranging from 21 to 60.

As I understand it, some of the 21 yr olds accepted do not necessarily have the requisite hours and yet they are admitted to the program.

This is the 2nd time I hear this regarding 2 different PA programs, from those close enough to each situation to confirm.

How common is this? What would be the characteristics that would persuade an admissions committee to accept applicants that don't fulfill all the hours? Is is straight A's in all courses? Relatives in the profession?

Inquiring minds want to know (or at least get your insight) 🙂

 

[Croooz]

dude, where you been?
yup, I think it's still the same.

Getting all holier-than-thou in seminary. 🙄
So coming to my senses I'm looking at getting back on the horse and going for my PA-C. I still want to do ministry, mainly Reserve chaplaincy or perhaps pastor a church but medicine is still primary. So finding a way to do both I was told that EM PA is hands down the best job for that. I love medicine and I love ministry and I love my wife. So PA would give me the flexibility to practice medicine and the chaplaincy would allow me to practice ministry and both of those would allow me not to drive my wife crazier about my current asinine boss. If I decide instead to pursue being a pastor, PA would give me the flexibility to move anywhere in the US. Most churches do not pay their pastors enough and since I have little to no experience I would get even less than most and would have to have a flexible job that pays well. Pushing papers as an administrator is paying the bills but it limits what I can do and is about the worst job in the world. These cubicles suck the life out of a person. 😡

So I is back. I would be posting at the PAforum.com but I cannot access it from work. They're doing "upgrades" and a bunch of sites are no longer accessible. Anyhow I'll reintroduce myself to the new bunch over at the PA forum. I see the majority of the PA students are now PA's which is awesome!....and sucks at the same time.

I'm going to become a nuisance to you shortly so you have been warned.

 

[core0]

emedpa,

Around here, if one looks at PA school admissions statistics, you would note that the acceptance range in age is quite large - ranging from 21 to 60.

As I understand it, some of the 21 yr olds accepted do not necessarily have the requisite hours and yet they are admitted to the program.

This is the 2nd time I hear this regarding 2 different PA programs, from those close enough to each situation to confirm.

How common is this? What would be the characteristics that would persuade an admissions committee to accept applicants that don't fulfill all the hours? Is is straight A's in all courses? Relatives in the profession?

Inquiring minds want to know (or at least get your insight) 🙂

Why would you assume a 21 year old doesn't have their hours? I had a classmate in high school that had well over 2000 hours of EMT time by 18. CNA during school etc.

 

[Dolce7]

This question is more directed at Emedpa, but if anyone else has any info, feel free too!

So, you said that CU Denver and Red Rocks look for very different people. I'm assuming CU looks more at grades, LoR, etc, and Red Rocks looks more heavily at work experience. Is this what you meant? Also, I know CU Denver is 3 years long and the student earns a masters degree, whereas it looks like Red Rocks is 2 years and offers only a certificate. Is a masters necessary? Would someone with a certificate be less likely to find work? Need more schooling in the future?

Also, I randomly gave a chair massage today to someone who just recently graduated as a PA from CU Denver. That was really fun and a weird coincidence! I felt like I was getting more than she was from that massage actually. I asked her a ton of questions, but really she didn't say anything that I haven't found from around here so far.

 

[core0]

This question is more directed at Emedpa, but if anyone else has any info, feel free too!

So, you said that CU Denver and Red Rocks look for very different people. I'm assuming CU looks more at grades, LoR, etc, and Red Rocks looks more heavily at work experience. Is this what you meant? Also, I know CU Denver is 3 years long and the student earns a masters degree, whereas it looks like Red Rocks is 2 years and offers only a certificate. Is a masters necessary? Would someone with a certificate be less likely to find work? Need more schooling in the future?

Also, I randomly gave a chair massage today to someone who just recently graduated as a PA from CU Denver. That was really fun and a weird coincidence! I felt like I was getting more than she was from that massage actually. I asked her a ton of questions, but really she didn't say anything that I haven't found from around here so far.

CU looks primarily at GPA and GRE. Red Rocks looks primarily at work experience (although given the amount of applicants they have GPA helps separate applicants out). CU used to have a bit of bias against applicants with medical experience, but I understand that has changed. Both are good programs. Both give Masters. CU through CU and Red Rocks through Saint Francis.

 

[FireCloud9]

Why would you assume a 21 year old doesn't have their hours? I had a classmate in high school that had well over 2000 hours of EMT time by 18. CNA during school etc.

I'm not assuming. The information comes from other people that are close enough to each situation to be "in the know", so I was curious how that could be the case.

The situation you described is unlikely to happen in California.

To become eligible to be an EMT student you have to be 18yrs old here. For most students it'll take a semester long course, a few will dish out several thousand for an accelerated course. No doubt they can get it when they're 18, but unlikely they would log 2000hrs in the same year 2080hrs is a full-time year (sure they can do OT, but you get the point).

 

[deleted6669]

I'm not assuming. The information comes from other people that are close enough to each situation to be "in the know", so I was curious how that could be the case.

The situation you described is unlikely to happen in California.

To become eligible to be an EMT student you have to be 18yrs old here. For most students it'll take a semester long course, a few will dish out several thousand for an accelerated course. No doubt they can get it when they're 18, but unlikely they would log 2000hrs in the same year 2080hrs is a full-time year (sure they can do OT, but you get the point).

Some states allow one to be an emt at 16.

 

[deleted6669]

emedpa,

Around here, if one looks at PA school admissions statistics, you would note that the acceptance range in age is quite large - ranging from 21 to 60.

As I understand it, some of the 21 yr olds accepted do not necessarily have the requisite hours and yet they are admitted to the program.

This is the 2nd time I hear this regarding 2 different PA programs, from those close enough to each situation to confirm.

How common is this? What would be the characteristics that would persuade an admissions committee to accept applicants that don't fulfill all the hours? Is is straight A's in all courses? Relatives in the profession?

Inquiring minds want to know (or at least get your insight) 🙂

some programs accept folks conditionally based on finishing courses or hce hours by the time the program starts. so if they have 800 hrs and the program requires 1000 they are accpted with the caveat that they need to keep working until the program starts.

 

[FireCloud9]

some programs accept folks conditionally based on finishing courses or hce hours by the time the program starts. so if they have 800 hrs and the program requires 1000 they are accpted with the caveat that they need to keep working until the program starts.

Yes, I can see that. We know someone here that was accepted into an accelerated program prior to completing 4 of the required classes, but he had to complete them before the program began.

We also know someone else that was accepted with one required class missing, but had to complete it before graduation. Well, she never completed the class, and has been working as an BSN RN for several years now.

 

[deleted6669]

We also know someone else that was accepted with one required class missing, but had to complete it before graduation. Well, she never completed the class, and has been working as an BSN RN for several years now.

thta's called "academic dishonesty" and could be grounds for her losing her license if it was ever investigated.

 

[FireCloud9]

thta's called "academic dishonesty" and could be grounds for her losing her license if it was ever investigated.

I would think that it's up to the schools to ensure that their graduates have completed all the requirements prior to awarding the degree.

After all, why would a student bother with a pre-req if they're already admitted into the program? That's a call each program has to make.

In that particular program (which is expensive) the practice seemed to be quite common. Today, b/c of the number of applicants, they've changed their policy to having to complete all pre-requisites, but in years past that wasn't the case.

Who knows? Since she completed all the classes in the RN program, the school may have waived the pre-req for all we know. We can't jump to the conclusion that it's "academic dishonesty".

Bottom line: She didn't complete all pre-reqs, but is a RN.

 

[Dolce7]

Update:

I just got a job working with a quadriplegic man. My main duties are to help him with RoM/massage for about 4 hours each shift, and also some light CNA/general care duties. It is paid work and about 20-25 hours a week. I figure that if I work until I graduate in May, I will have accumulated about 800 hours of paid work experience. I'm assuming this will fit better when it comes time to writing down HCE on forms for school?