Research and residency interviews

[Yung Kelso]

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Before I get to my question, a little background: I am a rising 3rd year student hoping to do a emergency medicine residency, although I am still open to the idea of other specialties. I have done basic science research in undergrad, and I have done clinical research during medical school. I find research to be "just okay", i do not absolutely hate it, nor am I passionate about it. Now on to my question. I did research during undergrad and medical school for the purpose of building my resume, and just to gain exposure to different areas of research. Now on to my question....

I know research experience, and the desire to do research is always a plus when trying to get a residency position at a top institution. But is it possible to get a EM residency position at a top program, when you have no desire to continue doing research? Furthermore, how do you approach this topic during residency interviews? does being straightforward and saying that you don't plan on doing research automatically close the door?

Basically, I just want to get top notch training, at a top tier academic center, in a nice location and have the OPTION to do research, but not be forced to do research, is that possible?

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Before I get to my question, a little background: I am a rising 3rd year student hoping to do a emergency medicine residency, although I am still open to the idea of other specialties. I have done basic science research in undergrad, and I have done clinical research during medical school. I find research to be "just okay", i do not absolutely hate it, nor am I passionate about it. Now on to my question. I did research during undergrad and medical school for the purpose of building my resume, and just to gain exposure to different areas of research. Now on to my question....

I know research experience, and the desire to do research is always a plus when trying to get a residency position at a top institution. But is it possible to get a EM residency position at a top program, when you have no desire to continue doing research? Furthermore, how do you approach this topic during residency interviews? does being straightforward and saying that you don't plan on doing research automatically close the door?

Basically, I just want to get top notch training, at a top tier academic center, in a nice location and have the OPTION to do research, but not be forced to do research, is that possible?

I can't speak to EM specifically, but I see/interview plenty of residents applying for fellowship and ask about their research experience. I know from experience, few of them will go into or are even interested in research, but I like it when residents (you can substitute students as well) speak about research in the sense that they were interested in learning something new, gained some new knowledge and hope to continue to learn. If an applicant can tell me about the project with even a hint of enthusiasm because they got a small nugget of experience/knowledge out of the project, I find that exponentially better when they sit there and can't tell me anything about the project or discuss it like they are just reading an obituary. As far as saying you aren't interested in research, no don't say that. But don't lie either. Give an ambiguous answer. If someone says "Are you interested in pursuing research?", you say "Well, I'm not sure what part of research will play in my career, but I know I like gaining new insight and knowledge into the medical problems our field encounters". Not really a yes or no, but not a lie either. Again, it is more about showing enthusiasm when you talk about what you did in the past and say you are open-minded and interested in whatever opportunities the residency/fellowship have to offer.

 

[guytakingboards]

Basically, I just want to get top notch training, at a top tier academic center, in a nice location and have the OPTION to do research, but not be forced to do research, is that possible?

Few thoughts:
1) You will be forced to do research no matter where you go for residency. A scholarly activity is an ACGME requirement for residency.
2) You want "top notch training" but do not want to participate in the activity that makes them top notch (research). Sounds like your name shopping.
3) Several places beyond the Ivy/academic arena offer excellent clinical training, some of which are in major cities. Although it may be more difficult researching them than just saying "i want to live in boston so i need to train at harvard", you may find it more better learning environment for you.
4) If you do pursue training at top tier academic programs, don't be an idiot. Know your audience. Don't tell a bunch of academics who've spent their lives doing research that you don't find it interesting. As Surfingdoctor said, be ambiguous.

 

[NickNaylor]

Few thoughts:
1) You will be forced to do research no matter where you go for residency. A scholarly activity is an ACGME requirement for residency.
2) You want "top notch training" but do not want to participate in the activity that makes them top notch (research). Sounds like your name shopping.
3) Several places beyond the Ivy/academic arena offer excellent clinical training, some of which are in major cities. Although it may be more difficult researching them than just saying "i want to live in boston so i need to train at harvard", you may find it more better learning environment for you.
4) If you do pursue training at top tier academic programs, don't be an idiot. Know your audience. Don't tell a bunch of academics who've spent their lives doing research that you don't find it interesting. As Surfingdoctor said, be ambiguous.

Completely agree. You WILL do research in training - you will not escape it. Best to have some experience and familiarity with it to make the process easier in residency. I don't know if this is the case across the board, but at least in my program the "scholarly project" requirement is quite non-specific; just about anything can fulfill the requirements of the "scholarly project," so even if you're not that interested in research you don't have to do anything hardcore. Personally I think this is a bit of a disservice, but I get it.

 

[askamsky51]

Incoming EM intern here. Got my #1 at what I consider to be a "top" California program. I also cone from a school that has one of the highest NIH fundings for EM.

First, you should ask yourself what you consider to be a "top" residency, if that even actually matters, and more importantly how you define that.

Certain things you don't really learn about the field/prestige/training until actually residency/interview shopping...

I think you will find a general concensus that "the top" EM residencies are not at major academic institutions. But again, that depends on what your own values are.

If you're looking for name recognition, quality training and overall perceived "badassery," those titles are generally held at the "county" programs. With that, the amount of EM centered research varies based on county programs. Hennepin as an example produces a lot. Most dont make it a super priority. Generally, true academic powerhouses have weaker EM programs due to the number of trainees and other specialty residency programs in house. Dislocated hip at 3am? Call ortho, that's their residents priority.

Some of the places you might expect to push research actually don't. Mayo comes to mind. They were actually very up front with "only do research if you like research," which surprised me.

EM doesn't really care about padding your app with research. Only sell yourself with it if you like it. It'll show on interview day.

Feel free to PM.



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[Yung Kelso]

First and foremost, thank you for the feedback, they were all very helpful. In response to some of the comments on here:

1. When I talk about top tier, I was referring to quality of training, not name recognition. While I don't care to go to Harvard, or probably any of the ivy league schools, I do however place some value on name recognition. When employers are looking at my resume I want them to know from the program's reputation that I received top quality training.

2. From askamsky51's comment, it seems I had a misconception about where the top quality training programs are, I thought that they were at the big academic institutions. so that is good to know. As you described, I want to go to a program where I get the most experience managing patients with serious and complex cases.

3. As far as research is concerned, yeah I did start doing research to pad my resume, but i was also genuinely curious to see what it entails. I did learn a lot from my research and appreciate its value in advancing medical knowledge. I don't mind having to do a research project during residency, I just don't want one project after another forced on me that occupies all my time, I want the freedom and flexibility to pursue other interests (community/youth outreach programs for example). I was just wandering if that's what its like at Academic institutions

4. thanks for the perspectives on the interview, I will definitely take all this good advice when that day comes.