Research for ROADE

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sanjoe10

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hey all, I'm an MS1 and going to be doing research this summer. I know that it usually helps for residency to do research in your field of interest (if you're interested in a competitive field like ROADE) and I'm interested in doing some clinical research. I found a few faculty members whose research interests me, but their current clinical trials seem to be epidemiological... is this ok? Or is it usually better to go for projects that are more "science-y" (e.g. drug trials, diagnostic/treatment trials, etc.)? thanks!
 
sanjoe10 said:
hey all, I'm an MS1 and going to be doing research this summer. I know that it usually helps for residency to do research in your field of interest (if you're interested in a competitive field like ROADE) and I'm interested in doing some clinical research. I found a few faculty members whose research interests me, but their current clinical trials seem to be epidemiological... is this ok? Or is it usually better to go for projects that are more "science-y" (e.g. drug trials, diagnostic/treatment trials, etc.)? thanks!
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Well it'd be great if you could get in on some ground-breaking research or paper that puts your name in NEJM, but those opportunities aren't exactly bouncing the way of an MS1 every day. Epidemiological stuff makes up the grunt work of research and is a foundation of sorts. And yes, if you want to do ENT you should try and get in on something between the dura and the pleura. But beyond that it's really all about getting your feet wet in regards to the research process and showing an interest in academic medicine. This is primarily so that PDs can pat themselves on the back (and get a favorable evaluation from their department chair) knowing their residents/graduates will help bring in research dollars, maintain a respectable program, and advance the scientific knowledge of that respective field.
 
I don't want to sound like a total n00b, but I'm guessing the "E" stands for emergency medicine?
 
DrBowtie said:
Step 1: Quit with this "E" crap in the ROAD.
Step 2: Any pub is better than no pub.
Click to expand...

I know it's historical but EM does compare favorably with Anesthesia.

With specialties like Rad Onc and PM&R getting more popular, ROAD is kind of outdated especially as the practice situation/area of the country and how hard you want to work determine how much you make more than the specialty.
 
2012mdc said:
I know it's historical but EM does compare favorably with Anesthesia.

With specialties like Rad Onc and PM&R getting more popular, ROAD is kind of outdated especially as the practice situation/area of the country and how hard you want to work determine how much you make more than the specialty.
Click to expand...
It's not only lifestyle but also money that goes into the equation. (Rad Onc is included in the R as they are boarded by the same org as I've had it explained to me). Either way, EM is great if you want shift work, but definitely not at the level of the ROAD.
 
2012mdc said:
I know it's historical but EM does compare favorably with Anesthesia.

With specialties like Rad Onc and PM&R getting more popular, ROAD is kind of outdated especially as the practice situation/area of the country and how hard you want to work determine how much you make more than the specialty.
Click to expand...
DrBowtie is correct. RadOnc used to be part of radiology (ie. there was no separate specialty called radonc...it fell under the umbrella of radiology) and is included in the radiology part of the ROAD acronym because of that. At least, that's how I understand it.
 
DrBowtie said:
It's not only lifestyle but also money that goes into the equation. (Rad Onc is included in the R as they are boarded by the same org as I've had it explained to me). Either way, EM is great if you want shift work, but definitely not at the level of the ROAD.
Click to expand...

From what I've heard Anesthesia and Optho don't really make that much of a different salary than EM and PM&R.

Point taken about Rad Onc
 
Research is probably near mandatory or at least very beneficial for ENT (if that is actually what the E stands for) and Derm, for the rest of those you only need it if you want to go to a big-name program.
 
2012mdc said:
From what I've heard Anesthesia and Optho don't really make that much of a different salary than EM and PM&R.

Point taken about Rad Onc
Click to expand...
The average Anesthesiologist salary is ~350/yr. I don't think EM is that high, optho could be significantly more. I can't imagine PM&R making that much, unless they're including pain management PM&R folks as well. Pain pays.
Like most fields, work harder, make more. Anesthesia is definitely still a desirable specialty with regard to $$:lifestyle ratio. It also, maybe more importantly, offers career flexibility that is not present in many specialties.👍
 
IlDestriero said:
The average Anesthesiologist salary is ~350/yr. I don't think EM is that high, optho could be significantly more. I can't imagine PM&R making that much, unless they're including pain management PM&R folks as well. Pain pays.
Like most fields, work harder, make more. Anesthesia is definitely still a desirable specialty with regard to $$:lifestyle ratio. It also, maybe more importantly, offers career flexibility that is not present in many specialties.👍
Click to expand...

I've heard PMR pays around 160-220k (+ or -). That is with sub-specialty...
 
IlDestriero said:
The average Anesthesiologist salary is ~350/yr. I don't think EM is that high, optho could be significantly more. I can't imagine PM&R making that much, unless they're including pain management PM&R folks as well. Pain pays.
Like most fields, work harder, make more. Anesthesia is definitely still a desirable specialty with regard to $$:lifestyle ratio. It also, maybe more importantly, offers career flexibility that is not present in many specialties.👍
Click to expand...

Yeah I was wrong, I think I just made up some numbers in my head or confused it with another specialty. Proceed on the ROAD as usual 👍
 
2012mdc said:
If we are gonna count Uro then don't we have to include ENT too?

How do they compare to Optho hours wise?
Click to expand...
From the urologists that I know, they all tell me it is definitely the best work schedule/lifestyle for any surgical sub-specialty, fwiw. Lowest divorce rate as well. Then again, maybe that's because they know how the mechanics work down there 😉
 
BBender716 said:
From the urologists that I know, they all tell me it is definitely the best work schedule/lifestyle for any surgical sub-specialty, fwiw. Lowest divorce rate as well. Then again, maybe that's because they know how the mechanics work down there 😉
Click to expand...

Yeah I've met a couple urologists and they all seemed happy and told me to consider their field and that they're not like those GS folks. ENT's have told me basically the same thing
 
DrBowtie said:
...Rad Onc is included in the R as they are boarded by the same org as I've had it explained to me...
Click to expand...

No. They are included in the R because when that acronym was created, they were a subspecialty of radiology.

To the OP: ROAD is an acronym that has been around for decades. You can't start adding letters to it any more than you can add letters to other established acronyms -- if you do you simply sound foolish to the generations of folks who have known and used the acronym for years. ROAD encompasses a historical balance of prestige, lifestyle friendly, lucrative and competitiveness. Many of the other fields folks try to add when they play with the acronym lack at least one of these factors.

Anesthesiology has had a rollercoaster history in terms of popularity/competitiveness, but is in ROAD because at the time that acronym was created it had a long history of being a lucrative, competitive, lifestyle friendly field.

As for EM being equivalently popular/lifestyle friendly as some of the others, you have to realize that the shiftwork schedule has only very recently been adopted, and it will take at least a decade or so before it's clear whether this is going to emerge as a true competitive lifestyle field. There is often whipsaw effect when this kind of change gets made, and there are no shortage of current critics of the EM shift training who have suggested that the current crop of trainees aren't spending enough time in the hospital to learn what they need to know. (A couple of EM programs have already adopted a required prelim year, and it's conceivable that more backlash may occur down the road). So it's really too early to elevate this field to the ROAD level, even if it were proper to toy with age-old acronyms (which it isn't).

But the short answer is that if you post "ROADE" like it's something commonly understood, you look foolish. Sort of like if you went on a diving website and added E to SCUBA.
 
Law2Doc said:
To the OP: ROAD is an acronym that has been around for decades. You can't start adding letters to it any more than you can add letters to other established acronyms -- if you do you simply sound foolish to the generations of folks who have known and used the acronym for years.
Click to expand...

Which would be the end of the world.
 
MCAT guy said:
Which would be the end of the world.
Click to expand...

Obviously it wouldn't be the end of the world. It just would make the OP look foolish in future settings, perhaps even some where it would professionally benefit him from not looking foolish. On an advice board, posters ought to be given advice which allows them to not look foolish in the future. We do the OP a disservice if we don't make sure he knows that the acronym is "ROAD" with no E. Much as the OP ought to know the acronym SCUBA doesn't have an E. Nuff said.
 
Law2Doc said:
As for EM being equivalently popular/lifestyle friendly as some of the others, you have to realize that the shiftwork schedule has only very recently been adopted, and it will take at least a decade or so before it's clear whether this is going to emerge as a true competitive lifestyle field. There is often whipsaw effect when this kind of change gets made, and there are no shortage of current critics of the EM shift training who have suggested that the current crop of trainees aren't spending enough time in the hospital to learn what they need to know. (A couple of EM programs have already adopted a required prelim year, and it's conceivable that more backlash may occur down the road). So it's really too early to elevate this field to the ROAD level, even if it were proper to toy with age-old acronyms (which it isn't).

But the short answer is that if you post "ROADE" like it's something commonly understood, you look foolish. Sort of like if you went on a diving website and added E to SCUBA.
Click to expand...

I can understand how you resent EM's relatively humane training system, considering that you're one of SDN's leading defenders of every abusive residency practice out there. It's probably hard to admit that you can train knowledgeable physicians without extreme sleep deprivation.
 
Law2Doc said:
Obviously it wouldn't be the end of the world. It just would make the OP look foolish in future settings, perhaps even some where it would professionally benefit him from not looking foolish. On an advice board, posters ought to be given advice which allows them to not look foolish in the future. We do the OP a disservice if we don't make sure he knows that the acronym is "ROAD" with no E. Much as the OP ought to know the acronym SCUBA doesn't have an E. Nuff said.
Click to expand...

Whatever works.
 
What acronym would be appropriate for me to use if I want to go into either Cardiology, Hematology, Ophthamology, Dermatology, or Emergency Medicine? I sat down with my career counselor at my school and we arrived at these specialties after extensive testing.
 
Really is half this thread devoted for lambasting the OP for putting an E on ROAD?

Seems pointless.
 
Prime2000 said:
What acronym would be appropriate for me to use if I want to go into either Cardiology, Hematology, Ophthamology, Dermatology, or Emergency Medicine? I sat down with my career counselor at my school and we arrived at these specialties after extensive testing.
Click to expand...

Throw urology in the mix and you've got yourself a DOUCHE.
 
Prime2000 said:
What acronym would be appropriate for me to use if I want to go into either Cardiology, Hematology, Ophthamology, Dermatology, or Emergency Medicine? I sat down with my career counselor at my school and we arrived at these specialties after extensive testing.
Click to expand...
Ableton said:
Throw urology in the mix and you've got yourself a DOUCHE.
Click to expand...
I'm a fan of the original myself, but I like where your heads at. Both made me lol
 
Law2Doc said:
No. They are included in the R because when that acronym was created, they were a subspecialty of radiology.

To the OP: ROAD is an acronym that has been around for decades. You can't start adding letters to it any more than you can add letters to other established acronyms -- if you do you simply sound foolish to the generations of folks who have known and used the acronym for years. ROAD encompasses a historical balance of prestige, lifestyle friendly, lucrative and competitiveness. Many of the other fields folks try to add when they play with the acronym lack at least one of these factors.

Anesthesiology has had a rollercoaster history in terms of popularity/competitiveness, but is in ROAD because at the time that acronym was created it had a long history of being a lucrative, competitive, lifestyle friendly field.

As for EM being equivalently popular/lifestyle friendly as some of the others, you have to realize that the shiftwork schedule has only very recently been adopted, and it will take at least a decade or so before it's clear whether this is going to emerge as a true competitive lifestyle field. There is often whipsaw effect when this kind of change gets made, and there are no shortage of current critics of the EM shift training who have suggested that the current crop of trainees aren't spending enough time in the hospital to learn what they need to know. (A couple of EM programs have already adopted a required prelim year, and it's conceivable that more backlash may occur down the road). So it's really too early to elevate this field to the ROAD level, even if it were proper to toy with age-old acronyms (which it isn't).

But the short answer is that if you post "ROADE" like it's something commonly understood, you look foolish. Sort of like if you went on a diving website and added E to SCUBA.
Click to expand...


I realize this response is delayed, but here ya go:
Now I am obviously biased and also a med student but I have heard ROADE used in multiple different contexts.

More importantly, I want to correct a couple points about EM residency training programs. No offense, Law2Doc.

Every EM program requires a broad intern year (i.e. more than just EM)- what varies is the amount of EM vs off-service rotations (the greatest number of EM months during intern year I have seen is 6, meaning every intern in EM does at least 6 off-service months during their intern year). Your comment that a couple of EM programs have recently adopted a required prelim year is blatantly wrong. With a very few notable PGY 2-4 exceptions, the vast majority of EM programs include an integrated intern year (i.e. are PGY 1-3 or PGY 1-4). In fact, many PGY 2-4 programs have recently begun to change from separate prelim years to incorporated intern years- i.e. PGY 1-4 instead of PGY 2-4(examples off the top of my head- UCLA-Olive View, USC-LAC), which is the opposite of what you said. If you think about it, it makes sense- why not have every EM intern in your program do an explicitly-defined mixture of RELEVANT rotations during their intern year? No sense in spending an entire year doing IM when our specialty involves surgery, OB-Gyn, etc. Thus, I have absolutely no idea where this "backlash" is going to come from when the phenomenon you describe of EM programs recently adopting prelim years is false.

And EM isn't as new a specialty as you seem to think it is, either 🙂 Not sure where you got the idea that the EM "shiftwork schedule" has recently been adopted, unless by recently you mean 30 years ago.

Anyway, I honestly don't care whether EM is considered a ROAD(E) specialty or not (I'm actually leaning towards no- the pay is definitely not as good as the ROAD specialties and working nights/weekends/holidays certainly isn't for everyone). I think ENT is probably a better choice for the "E" than EM. But I want to make sure that any med students reading this are clear on the training structure of EM and the history of the specialty. And give the OP a break- it's not like the acronym is trademarked 🙂
 
Last edited:
Follow your DermOphthoNeuroGi to happiness.
 
I'm definitely staying away from
Peds,Emergency,Nephrology,Internal medicine, or Surgery
 
I think IM is interesting since it allows you to take all sorts of fellowships... that is a major plus for me. And I think EM is pretty interesting too, if you are tired of getting bitten and stabbed with needles, you can just go to a rural area, and take care of drunk hillbillies!
 
johnmendes said:
I think IM is interesting since it allows you to take all sorts of fellowships... that is a major plus for me. And I think EM is pretty interesting too, if you are tired of getting bitten and stabbed with needles, you can just go to a rural area, and take care of drunk hillbillies!
Click to expand...

That's quite the set of bigoted preconceptions you've got there.
 
Tic said:
That's quite the set of bigoted preconceptions you've got there.
Click to expand...

It was a non statement, and attempt at sarcasm (a feeble one, it seems). I lived in the Midwest for a while, and that's where I would like to work... Nothing against the good people that lives there.
 
johnmendes said:
I think IM is interesting since it allows you to take all sorts of fellowships... that is a major plus for me. And I think EM is pretty interesting too, if you are tired of getting bitten and stabbed with needles, you can just go to a rural area, and take care of drunk hillbillies!
Click to expand...
I was going for another acronym joke... Guess I'm not as funny as I thought. 🙁
 
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