research in company vs. univ

[Sonya]

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Hi,

prior to medschool, after I get my BS, i will be working for two years. i'm thinking of doing research work (i've done part time research while i did my undergrad classes).

My degree is biomedical engineering.

What would be the differences between research in a company vs. at a university. (besides pay).

Is there diff type or research? Environment? Pressure/Flexibility? Type of LOR?

Thanks
Sonya

 

[Original]

If you can help it, definitely do your research at a University as opposed to a company. Why? Because there is free flow of information at Universities compared to the high level of secrecy at these private firms. Everything is confidential at private research firms. Another reason is that you can slack off, be incompetent, and ask lots of stupid questions at a University. They'll fire your ass at a private research coorporation the minute they discover you aren't PERFECT. My last point is that by DEFINITION, the university is a place to learn; which happens to be exactly what you should be looking for. It's much more fun at a University. I say FU#K THE CORPORATE WORLD!!! 😀

 

[sandflea]

hi there. i decided to do research for a while after undergrad too, and i decided to go the academic/university route. i interned at a large pharmaceutical company during college (i was a biology major) and while the pay there is much better than you'll ever get in an academic setting, the focus is more on product development than discovery and publishing. it was a very corporate environment--the senior scientists had to wear ties to work, which you'll probably never see in a university lab. i imagine it'd be the same situation for a biomedical engineer. it's more of a 'career' type job. at the university lab where i work, practically everyone is a grad student, a med student, or applying to one of the two. it's practically a given that you'll be moving on in a few years, and the support i've gotten for that is great.

if you are interested in using this job as a way to improve your applications to med school, then you're way better off going where you'll be a lot more likely to get some publications, which is at a university. go do a lit search on pubmed, and the vast majority of articles you'll find will be from academic settings, not corporate. many med schools don't care how long on paper you've done research unless you have something tangible--a publication, presentation at a major conference, etc--to show for it. the pay isn't great, but it will pay off in the end.

hope that helps...

 

[Ranger Bob]

Sonya, As a fellow engineer with experience (albeit not research experience) in the corporate world, I must respectfully disagree with parts of Original's response to your question. I think you should look at the specific job alternatives, not generalizations about the two environments, when choosing between a corporate job and a university job.

- Which opportunity is more interesting to you from a technical standpoint?

- Assuming the prospective university and corporation are in different areas, which location do you prefer?

- How important is salary to you? Do you have student loans that will require repayment anytime soon? If so, the corporate job may look a little better.

- While Original's statement about secrecy vs. openness may be true, what bearing does this have on the type of LOR you would get? Not much, in my opinion. The main advantage I see is that you may be more likely to get your name on a publication in a university setting. Authoring a publication is helpful, but certainly not required, to get into a good medical school.

I imagine that adcoms tend to look more favorably on research done at an academic institution. But I think the advantage is slight. Consider the specifics of the opportunities before you make your decision, and don't rule anything out too soon.

 

[labangel]

Hey Sonya,
As someone who has worked in both settings, I would say that I much prefer the academic environment. I have received a lot of support since I've been in a University setting...both from my boss and the undergrads that I work with who are also applying. Universities tend to be more sympathetic to the idea that you aren't going to be there longer than 1-3 years. And, some schools will let you sit in on classes or even take them for free if you get tuition benefits. Oh, and it's definitely more fun to work with people who are close to your age. At a company, you're going to find that a good number of your coworkers will be older than you and you might not have as much in common. Although Ranger Bob makes good points, at least in my experience, there is a huge difference between working for a company and for a university.

 

[E'01]

I really wished I had listened to the advice given to me by med students, but whatever you decide on make sure that you do research because you really want to and not to just merely to get into medical school.

 

[Dr. Kermit]

Sonya-

I was a chem major and looked into a couple of companies last year. Merck, Bayer, and Phizer to name a few. The only problem with the companies is when I interviewed for Research and Development positions they wanted someone who would commit for at least 2 years, sometimes even 5 years. They offered me great benefits and stock options, but I knew I was going to apply for Fall of 2002 and didn't want to defer for 2003. Also, my MCATs would expire if I had had to stay for 5 years!

I'm currently working for Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh which was private when I applied, but was recently acquired by UPitt. My boss is an MD/PHD and while he has been supportive by letting me leave for interviews and giving my a X-mas vacation, he is also reluctant to let me go. Even though he knew I was applying to med school!!

I was very forthright when I applied and did not hide that I would be applying to med school. I put it very eloquently at the end of my cover letter 🙂 Good luck making a decision, just let a company know your intentions.

 

[Sonya]

Hello,

Thanks for the advice everyone. I see there is a strong agreement university will be better.

In terms of location, I will most likely be in chicago, company or university (nortwestern or MAYBE pritzker/UChic). Unless i find something really excellent otherwise.

In response to your advice ranger bob:
From technical standpoint, university will in all likelyhood be much more interesting. my idea of research right now (in univ) is measuring neuron growth by all sorts of bioengineering methods. i.e. very technical, somewhat abstract, far from medically applied though possibly quite interesting stuff. yeah, what i'll be doing at univ after graduation will be more interesting (mechanisms of learning and memory or psych dis).Company research, i suppose, can also be very different. What do you think difference would be, in company research? (i know, it matters mostly on the position, but for position that are very different from univ).

Salary isn't critical for me. I can afford medical education, or loans.

original's post was too strong for it to bear much credibility to me (sorry original). I don't see what's wrong with a bit of secrecy, as long as a company isn't excessive. I'm sure i'll be able to judge that in the interview.

E'01: What is the advice you wish you'd listened to?

I already have one publication as an undergrad (2nd author, J. Neurosci). If I knew I was going for MD PhD, I would definetly be talking to people at Northwestern, and finding what lab will be the best (actually, i know that, finding which profs will let me in now), and be working there.

I guess i'll clarify really bluntly why I'm taking two years off (the reasons you'd never tell companies, or even the univs).

* I can devote more time to MCATs and applications. That's important, but i could've just delayed my BS one year and given myself more time for MCAT and such.

The MAIN reason: as some of you on SDN may know, I'd be a young applicant... graduating with BS when i'm 18. It's been my experience on the whole (asking advisors/profs/SDNers/looking at stats, etc), that medschools will be skeptical of letting a 19 yr old start medschool. Thus, i will take a few years off.

let myself mature, let medschools be more acceptant of a 21 yr old, and prepare myself. Damn, once i start medschool, i'm not going to have much time for ANYTHING.

I have a strong candidancy otherwise.. 3.84 GPA, BME degree, significant research, reasonable extra activities, set a good impression on enough profs to get good recs. I don't want to loose the chance of a going to a good medschool b/c they're skeptical whether a 19 yr old can be mature enough for medschool.

I guess that's part of the reason, despite this advice i'm thinking a company job may be worthwhile and spending hours around monster.com trying to find jobs (ohh... hints in this process appreciated, though i'll probably post a new thread).

The main disadvantage i see is that their probably wont be people to give me advice, like you said labangel. Dr. Kermit, i am considering research in hospitals to be very similar to univ.

This is why I thought the LOR in companies would be very different from univ. My research profs, and classroom profs, will all say similar things... bright student, good analytical skills, creative mind, etc. may be my non science prof recomendation will say a little different (participate in class, good writing skils). I have been unsuccesful at finding good extra activities, and don't think a rec from there will be worthwhile. If i went to do research in a university, it would be more of the same. He could say more, and will know me better since i'm there full time, but it'll still be similar.

I think... but this is my unexperienced predictions and guesses so let me know if you think i'm on track... that companies will look for and at totally different qualities than at universities. like, they would be more concerned with communication, organization, how timely your work is... actually, i'm not sure what they'd be concerned with, but I think it'd be different. and i think it'll reflect into a different type of LOR. am I on track here?

I also think that the interaction with others in a company setting will be a lot more, and of a very different type and it would allow me to grow more. They'd be much more focused on getting the job done and such. I'm not the outgoing type (not that i'm pathetically shy, but i could use improvement). but, isn't this the kind of stuff that medschool look into in terms of "maturity", etc?

To this end, i'm actually thinking of a technically oriented marketting job at a company... i don't know whether i'd enjoy it, but it would be different, and would make me improve... a lot. how would medschools look at it? i would be in a job, where it is obvious good communication/people interaction is more than essential.

I'm also thinking of working (only one summer), in us goverment with a congressman or such. It'll be a very different, hopefully interesting endevour.

okay... so basically (and yeah, i'm insanely verbose on SDN), do my thoughts and predictions of medschool seem right about LOR and all this business of maturity/communication. how do you think medschool would view it?

 

[Skye04]

One thing you might want to look into is working for a small biotech company that is actually incubated (wording?) at a university. I have been working in such a lab for the past year as an undergrad (PT). Because it is through a university the environment is more open and you are able to have a bit of freedom with your research, but at the same time it is a company and so you are working with a specific goal and a specific end product in mind, which can help one from feeling like their work has no direction.

This is only my individual experience of course so I am not sure if it is typical but just wanted to throw it out there... 🙂

 

[CoffeeCat]

Sonya - Wow, I'm impressed by you...I love to see dedication like that, especially at a young age. I agree with skye that it would be a good combination to find a biotech at a university. There are a few at my school. The research I'm doing now is for two professors who started a biotech company and are attempted drug development. It has all of the benefits of a university - professor contact, ability to take more classes, flexible time, etc. But it also has more stringent deadlines and they really want those results quickly! However, since I am working in drug development and right now am doing screening, I doubt there will be a publication involved. Nobody wants word out about their drug before it hits the market, so that's a consideration. A plus though is that I also have my own separate project with a higher liklihood of publication (if I ever get time to work on it) which is more of a possibility in a university than a biotech.

As far as extracurricular activities (I know you didn't really ask) and taking a few years off - I'm going to do the peace corps which is two years, three months and I think that will be a big application booster with good lors. (I, of course, have personal reasons as well). Another suggestion is to do a summer in another country doing medical work, research, etc. There's doctors without borders (I'm not sure if they take those w/o a med degree) and others (easily found on the internet. Another good activity which would take awhile is Teach for America (a year I think) which would show some maturity and probably produce good recs as well as a good experience. Good luck!

 

[Skye04]

Originally posted by CoffeeCat:
•Another suggestion is to do a summer in another country doing medical work, research, etc. There's doctors without borders (I'm not sure if they take those w/o a med degree)•••

Yes, I believe Doctors without Borders only takes practicing medical professionals, meaning you have to have completed your residency before doing this. I am also pretty set on doing the Peace Corps directly after graduation. It may help my application but more importantly I want to get out into the real world and get back to the basic reason for practicing medicine: to help people.

The Peace Corps is a big time commitment, but there are comparable programs that are one year or shorter. Here are a few links that may be helpful...

<a href="http://bolt.icestorm.com/lyric/volunteer.html#latin" target="_blank">[/URL]
<a href="http://http://www.aktenamit.org/main.htm" target="_blank"></a>
</a>

 

[Original]

Originally posted by Sonya:
•original's post was too strong for it to bear much credibility to me (sorry original). I don't see what's wrong with a bit of secrecy, as long as a company isn't excessive. I'm sure i'll be able to judge that in the interview.

•••


Hey Sonya,
I'm sorry my post was so strong. I guess I was a tad too happy when I posted it
😀 In any case what I was getting at was that the company mentality is often not condusive to learning. I'm glad you've settled for the University even thought my input had no bearing on your decision. Good luck!

 

[BME All-Star]

As a fellow BME and MD/PhD hopeful, I'm gonna have to say that working in a company is much better in your case. We're biomedical engineers, sure we like to analyze stuff, but we like to build things too. I'd say the best experience you can ever get is actually learning about biomedical product design in the field, something that is never really taught in undergraduate biomedical engineering programs. I myself am going to get a master's degree and some work experience before applying to med school, because I really think that it's gonna help. Cause even physicians technically "work" under intense schedules, supervisors, and demands. They are as much a part of the work force or "corporate" system as anything else.

Considering you're 18, you have much more time than other premeds to actually gain work experience in the field. I'd consider that an advantage over other students whose only research has been in a university setting. If you've already gone that route, why not try the other?

From your previous posts I hope I can assume that your interest is is neuroengineering. While I'll admit that there really isn't much neuroengineering done in the commercial field right now (at least in the growing nervous tissue sense), there are definitely a few companies interested in compuational neural modelling and computational modelling of biological systems.

Eh, before I start rambling on, I guess the bottom line is try it...it can't hurt, you already have university research, and you'll probably end up learning something, whether it's that working for "the man" sucks, or actually applying the stuff you learned in school.

Peace

 

[E'01]

I kind of take back what I said Sonya - at the time of that post, I wasn't feelign too challenged (didn't have enough to do). But as of this week, I have been asked to write my first Clinical review paper and I'm loving it!!

 

[Sonya]

I kindof thought I'd never get in peace corps or Teach for America. Learning more about peace corps, i may get in. But it's a long commitment and I don't think i can easily write medschool application essays and take the MCAT while in some other country.


I saw several places to do few months health care in some other country (which would be india for me). What i'd really want in that is working in some very rurual place. but there's a certain worry about going to villages in the himalayas, when you don't know if it's a credible institute sponsoring you.

I don't think i'm going to have much choice of the job I find in industry. I'm not sure neural engineering would interest me. probably any and everything related to electrophys would interest me. and there are a lot of medical devices being made related to neuroscience and that could be interesting. There are position to work in a hospital doing electrophy recording, but i have no idea what that's about, and can't seem to contact that company.
But, in industry, i think to get anything strongly research/development oriented (outside of manufacturing/QA,etc) is going to be hard enough without specifying area of interest. I didn't mention it in my resume