research in non-research track residency

[32174]

Graduating MD/PhD student here. I unfortunately did not match into a research track and ended up at the last institution on my rank list. Happy that I have a job for 4 years, but I am wondering if it is still possible to perform a significant amount of research during psych residency. I only interviewed on research track days during interview season, so I am not familiar with the general program besides what is on the website. My understanding is that there are a few months during third and fourth year for research, but you have to carry the rest somehow during your own time?

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[SmallBird]

Graduating MD/PhD student here. I unfortunately did not match into a research track and ended up at the last institution on my rank list. Happy that I have a job for 4 years, but I am wondering if it is still possible to perform a significant amount of research during psych residency. I only interviewed on research track days during interview season, so I am not familiar with the general program besides what is on the website. My understanding is that there are a few months during third and fourth year for research, but you have to carry the rest somehow during your own time?

In general, yes, you can still make this happen, but it also depends on the program how easy this will be. I was not on a research track but managed to probably get a full year of protected time all told.

 

[dl2dp2]

This is interesting. Experiences seems to suggest that it's rare for MD/PhD candidates to 1) get ranked for the last spot institution; 2) not get into a research track if they expressed interest in research. Sounds like a byproduct of the field just getting more competitive. Your next steps will be really challenging if you want to sustain a research career.

 

[Amygdarya]

btw, many MD/PhD psychiatrists are shockingly bad, and it is often a factor of not getting enough clinical experience during residency, amongst other things. If you plan to practice clinically following your training, you would do well to get as much clinical experience as possible, while balancing this with your desire to get some research in.

This was the main reason I ended up ranking all the research track I interviewed at last year at the bottom of my list. I just compared the schedules between research and non-research tracks and realized how much clinical training I’d be missing.

Don’t fret OP, as was already said, research opportunities in non-research tracks vary by program, and a number of programs allow interested people to join research track in PGY-2 or later. If you don’t want to reveal the program you matched into, you’ll be better off inquiring about research opportunities with your program. Aside from that, your success will largely depend mainly on your own motivation and, to some degree, on the luck of getting a good mentor and a productive line of research.

 

[Amygdarya]

This is interesting. Experiences seems to suggest that it's rare for MD/PhD candidates to 1) get ranked for the last spot institution; 2) not get into a research track if they expressed interest in research. Sounds like a byproduct of the field just getting more competitive. Your next steps will be really challenging if you want to sustain a research career.

I’ll tell you more: last year, an MD/PhD student from a fairly prestigious medical school and possibly even more prestigious research institute, with good publications, solid application, no red flags and a really nice person didn’t match into psychiatry at all. Granted, that person interviewed at like 7 top programs, but still.

 

[deleted736562]

It's definitely possible though it depends on the kind of research you do. Pick a feasible project that isn't very experimental in which much of the work can be done at home. Psych residency isn't as demanding; you'll have extra time after work and on weekends, not counting possible elective time in 4rh year (some programs will offer elective time on 2nd and 3rd years too).

 

[32174]

I’ll tell you more: last year, an MD/PhD student from a fairly prestigious medical school and possibly even more prestigious research institute, with good publications, solid application, no red flags and a really nice person didn’t match into psychiatry at all. Granted, that person interviewed at like 7 top programs, but still.

Thanks everyone. The above seems like the same boat as me. I was shocked as well. I also do not have red flags, have publications in the double digits and come from a good school. I understand that the field is getting more competitive though.

 

[Amygdarya]

Thanks everyone. The above seems like the same boat as me. I was shocked as well. I also do not have red flags, have publications in the double digits and come from a good school. I understand that the field is getting more competitive though.

Yeah, sorry your experience hasn’t been smooth either. Unfortunately with more people applying some good folks are falling through the cracks (true for both research and non-research applicants)

 

[Armadillos]

Presumably regardless of what happens during residency the poster could do a year or two postdoc afterwards to get research career back on track if it’s tough to be productive during residency?

 

[tr]

I am wondering if it is still possible to perform a significant amount of research during psych residency. I only interviewed on research track days during interview season, so I am not familiar with the general program besides what is on the website. My understanding is that there are a few months during third and fourth year for research, but you have to carry the rest somehow during your own time?

It's really program dependent. Some programs are super heavy clinically and will keep you too busy for anything else. Others are very relaxed. Our program added a scholarly project requirement a few years ago that results in everyone getting almost as much protected time as the research track residents.

If you are in the former type of program I'd talk with your PD and see if there is any possibility of transferring into the research track after intern year.

btw, many MD/PhD psychiatrists are shockingly bad, and it is often a factor of not getting enough clinical experience during residency

I... have trouble believing this. Psychopharmacology is not that complicated and honestly it could be learned in 2-3 years. Many well regarded residency programs have very low key fourth years anyway. For psychotherapy, I agree that is more difficult to do well, but lots of non-PhD psychiatrists are awful at it as well, and the available research suggests that years of formal training are not a good predictor of therapeutic efficacy.