Research Opportunities While In Med School?

[norway28]

I was just wondering, how are the research opportunities for DO students during their years in medical schools? Is not having a dedicated teaching hospital a barrier to things like new tools and treatments?

Lastly, is there a way to see what hospitals/clinics a given ostepathic school supports?

Thanks!

 

[ManBroDude]

Hahahah! You ol' joker, you! Research at a DO school?!?

 

[Dissected]

In my experience, research is definitely more limited in general at a DO school.

If you are very motivated and seek it out you will be able to find something, but it will probably be bench research. Clinical research is hard to come by unless you do a dedicated research rotation at another institution or something to that effect.

Just depends on your priorities. If it is something you want but is not your primary focus, you should be fine.

 

[Goro]

Limited but not impossible. I just had a paper accepted and a former student will be first author. The best time for research is in the summer between years I and II, a most people will be highly preoccupied with COMLEX and rotations in summer between II and III.

You may have time also have time for research during electives, but if you're really, really good at time management, you can pull it off during the school year too. I've seen plenty of my students do that.

In my experience, research is definitely more limited in general at a DO school.

If you are very motivated and seek it out you will be able to find something, but it will probably be bench research. Clinical research is hard to come by unless you do a dedicated research rotation at another institution or something to that effect.

Just depends on your priorities. If it is something you want but is not your primary focus, you should be fine.

 

[ManBroDude]

The problem is that bench work takes a lot of time in order to pull off something good. Remember that specialty-specific research > unspecific research > no research, and anything you do between M1 and M2 is likely going to be unspecific or ultimately in the wrong specialty. In addition, without a Step 1 score, you don't have any idea if what you are pursuing is really feasible.

The smart dudes that are interested in Ophtho, Trauma, and EM will do research on traumatic eye injuries in the ED, effectively covering all their bases.

 

[scotchtapetest]

The problem is that bench work takes a lot of time in order to pull off something good. Remember that specialty-specific research > unspecific research > no research, and anything you do between M1 and M2 is likely going to be unspecific or ultimately in the wrong specialty. In addition, without a Step 1 score, you don't have any idea if what you are pursuing is really feasible.

The smart dudes that are interested in Ophtho, Trauma, and EM will do research on traumatic eye injuries in the ED, effectively covering all their bases.

So you want something for nothing? You want good research but don't want to spend any time on it.... Good Luck with that!

Do you think PDs are ******ed? They ask you a million questions about your research and if it's just a BS project that your level of involvement was limited to taking BPs means close to nothing. Research is only valuable if you put in a lot of time and learned from it (clinical or bench)... The summer between M1 and M2 is only good to start a project, you have to continue that if you really want to say you have done research.

Also, since when did Ophtho, Trauma and EM came under the same level of competitiveness? That's like comparing astrophysics, architecture and carpentry....

Lastly, if you are deciding your future career/life path based on your step 1 score you have more serious issues to deal with than needing research! Of course step 1 makes a difference in your life path but unless you score in the bottom 20%, you can always recover from it for almost any specialty, especially on the AOA side.

 

[ManBroDude]

I'm just rephrasing what's being said in the Allo board:

Subject specific research>Non-subject specific>No research

It always helps to do research, and if you get it right the first time then it helps more. You can always hedge your bets by choosing wisely. For example: Interested in EM, trauma, and optho? Do research on emergency eye trauma. In other words, making it specific to more than one specialty always helps.

The general consensus is research >>>>> any other EC in terms of what PDs are looking for in an applicant. In terms of what is valued higher, a pub from bench research will be valued higher than from a clinical research. However, bench usually takes a longer time and a lot more dedication.

I am a DO applying to both DO and MD EM this year. I would agree that step 1 is by far the most important thing to get an interview, period. I have been pretty surprised at just how competitive EM is, as I always felt it was a "middle of the road" field. Many MD places seem to be getting 1500-2000 applications for 15 spots and DO programs get 500-800 for 6 spots. You have to have something that sets you apart and it seems that research is essentially worthless in EM. I have a unique background via a previous career outside of medicine that has been talked about at length in all my interviews and I think may be the one thing that PDs will remember about me. I would advise anyone to have something of interest about them that sets them apart from the rest of herd that is completely outside the world of medicine. Showing that you are a complete person with unique life experiences makes them like you. Who would you rather work with, a guy who sat in the lab and looked at a microscope all through college, or one that traveled the globe/started a business/played the drums in a rock band?

The other thing I wish I knew was just how little time you have to pick a field. I bounced back and forth between ENT, surg, and EM all through school for no real reason other than I liked the "idea" of being one of those types of doctors. I expected that step 1 would cut my options down but when I did pretty good on it, I had to make some decisions. For me, I decided that I had to give one field all my energy. I don't think I could have applied to two of them and been a quality candidate. And because there are only so many golden elective months, you have to decide early. Best advice I got was to pick two by December of your 3rdyear, and then set up away's in both. By 4th year pick one and run with it. Audition months fill up crazy fast in small competitive fields like ENT and Optho and even EM.

Being a DO has been a mixed bag. I feel that all of the MD programs have been extremely open and honest about their opinions of DO's, some mind, some dont, I certainly can't fault them for it. I only applied to places that had taken a DO recently and I think that is the best course. Also, I have been very surprised with the quality of most of the DO programs (all but one of the 10 I went to have been solid), however, geographically speaking the DO programs are pretty crappy (MI, OH, PA). Deciding to drop out of the DO match has been hard and Im still not sure what to do.

My mantra would be, study hard, pick a field early that you enjoy, and don't be a prick.

Thread here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11979028

 

[ManBroDude]

Lastly, if you are deciding your future career/life path based on your step 1 score you have more serious issues to deal with than needing research! Of course step 1 makes a difference in your life path but unless you score in the bottom 20%, you can always recover from it for almost any specialty, especially on the AOA side.

DO residencies don't weigh the COMLEX Level 1 as highly as MD residencies weigh the USMLE Step 1. This has been repeated multiple times on SDN. If you're looking to match MD, you best be believin' Step 1 matters.

 

[scotchtapetest]

But sometimes when you rephrase you change the meaning. For example there is no mention of "smart dudes" in the post you quoted as opposed to what you wrote which changed the meaning of what you were trying to say.

I also didn't mean to imply that EM (or any other field) is not competitive... It is medicine, you are competing against bunch of smart dudes and dudettes; everything is competitive... What I said was that there is no comparison between the competitiveness of Ophto, Trauma and EM...

You also have to remember that most people do "research" while only some get to do real research and that's what really counts for competitive specialties.

On a side note, everyone must do what works for them... Programs, for the most part, want to see scholarly activity. Not everyone has to do research. If you are interested in public health you publish a paper in public health fields or get an internship in that... If you are really passionate about helping the poor then do that... If research is what does it for you then do that... What is important and counts is to be passionate about what you do and do it well..

For instance, if you spend 20 hrs/wk for 4 years in a free clinic and publish couple of papers (in a respected journal) about your experience, it would be much more valuable than taking 10 BP measurements and getting your name as the nth (n>2) author on a major publication.

 

[donkeykong1]

Hahahah! You ol' joker, you! Research at a DO school?!?

cool stuff with the sarcasm but the school I'm headed to a has 200 million dollar facility for cancer and diabetic research, offers a research fellowship the semester between year 1and 2, also students can take up a PhD in a biomed discipline as well .

 

[donkeykong1]

But sometimes when you rephrase you change the meaning. For example there is no mention of "smart dudes" in the post you quoted as opposed to what you wrote which changed the meaning of what you were trying to say.

I also didn't mean to imply that EM (or any other field) is not competitive... It is medicine, you are competing against bunch of smart dudes and dudettes; everything is competitive... What I said was that there is no comparison between the competitiveness of Ophto, Trauma and EM...

You also have to remember that most people do "research" while only some get to do real research and that's what really counts for competitive specialties.

On a side note, everyone must do what works for them... Programs, for the most part, want to see scholarly activity. Not everyone has to do research. If you are interested in public health you publish a paper in public health fields or get an internship in that... If you are really passionate about helping the poor then do that... If research is what does it for you then do that... What is important and counts is to be passionate about what you do and do it well..

For instance, if you spend 20 hrs/wk for 4 years in a free clinic and published couples papers (in a respected journal) about your experience, it would be much more valuable than taking 10 BP measurements and getting your name as the nth (n>2) author on a major publication.

👍

 

[scotchtapetest]

DO residencies don't weigh the COMLEX Level 1 as highly as MD residencies weigh the USMLE Step 1. This has been repeated multiple times on SDN. If you're looking to match MD, you best be believin' Step 1 matters.

Thanks for the advice class of 2016... I'll keep that in mind

Step 1 matters but you should not base your life on an exam score; As I said, unless you fail or score in the bottom 20%, you can always recover; there is always step 2/audition rotations/etc. and by that time it's too late to just be making up your mind...

 

[poopyhead]

Depending on the OP's level of interest in research, all the public DO schools, except WVSOM, offer a DO/PhD biomedical sciences program.

 

[THH]

The summer between M1/M2 or taking a year off for research are both options if you are looking for research opportunities outside of your institution.