research PI not getting back to me

[mbe]

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here's what happened: i really wanted to do research in this cancer stem cell lab that we have at my college, so i went to the lab and asked for the PI in charge of the lab. she wasnt there when i went though, and a colleague of hers said it's best to email her about it. so i sent her an email saying that i was interested in doing research with her, and itd be great if we could have a face-to-face chat.
this is now 3days ago, and I haven't heard a thing back from the PI. im coming up with all sorts of reasons for her not getting back to me- could my being a first year undergrad be a reason?
i was thinking of going to the lab again, but ive already went in once w/o an appointment and i dont want to give the lab the impression that im pushy and annoying lol
should i keep waiting? how much longer? i really like the research they're doing and want to do research there..
oh and another thing, how much background knowledge of the lab would i have to know when she contacts me? i tried reading one of their papers and i cant really understand it much.. haha;
any advice would be helpful 🙂

 

[NickNaylor]

Couple of reasons I can think of this off the top of my head:

-A random person wanting join the lab is probably not at the top of her important things list. If I'm a busy person with things to do, I would also ignore your e-mail. It'd be best to try and speak with her in person again. If you have some sort of connection with her (i.e., you're in her class), use that to your advantage. Also, people are busy and don't necessarily have the time to write you an e-mail immediately. Perhaps wait a week before getting in touch with her again.

-If she's wanting to take on an undergrad student, I think first-years probably have the least chance of getting on board. You simply don't have the fundamental knowledge base to understand a good chunk of what they're going to talk about. That said, research is so specialized that the only way to really learn about a particular field is to work in that field and read lots of articles. If you don't understand the first paper you read, that's not a problem at all. Try looking at review papers first - these give a bigger picture look at a subject that you can then learn more about through traditional articles.

 

[ShinyDome19]

If your an undergrad, you dont neccessarily have to talk to the PI directly to get into a lab. A lot of times, if the PI also has administration responsibilities, it can be nearly impossible to get ahold of them. When I was in grad school, my PI was also the chair of the dept. and it would take me a week to get an appointment to talk to him or even longer sometimes for him to get my emails. The best way to get into a lab is to talk to graduate students or Post-Docs anyhow, because these are the people that will be teaching you how to do research...not the PI. And, if you go through the PI, the PI will just dump you on one of the grad students, not neccessarily one you will get along with...and likely, one that will just give you bitch work because you were dropped in their lap, which = more work for them. If you get to know them, and ask them if you could do research in the lab under them, they may be more willing to teach you, since you kinda gave them the option...they can probably take care of letting the PI know you want in the lab...

 

[EBLoneStar]

In my lab, our PI gets emails like these all the time and generally ignores them unless we have a new project and we actually need another undergrad to help out (which is rare). We also don't typically have students join the lab that didn't already know someone in the lab because every time we take a leap of faith and try, they end up being flaky or incompetent or annoying and don't mesh well with everyone else in the lab.

Every undergrad student in my lab got there by taking a class with either the professor (PI) or with one of the graduate students as a TA. I would think you might have more success trying to find a lab going that route (unless of course the PI has actually posted a undergrad research assistant wanted ad on a departmental website or something). Talk to your TAs and find out what kind of research they're doing and ask if you can come by sometime and observe. Then it kind of goes naturally from there.

If this is the only lab you're dead set on joining, I guess it can't hurt too much to try to go by and talk to the PI again. But I would come prepared with a small packet with a cover letter similar to the email you sent her, a small bio/resume/CV that includes your goals and a statement of interest, and ask one of the grad students to leave it on her desk so she's sure to see it if she's not actually there for you to hand it to.

 

[Practitioner]

My experience:

E-mailed lab PI.
Called lab PI.
E-Mailed again.
Had one of his colleagues leave him a message saying "I have someone here who would like to talk to you, you can call him back at ******"
He called back, set a meeting that he wasn't around for (called to cancel).
Called me back again to talk over the phone, and again I insisted to meet him in person.
Finally met him, but he didn't have anything open and I didn't press it too much. At the time was asking for a paid position.
Audited a course he ran.
E-mailed again. This time offering to volunteer.
Called again.
Spoke with one of the PIs that works in a lab under him (dropped by lab)
Add several more phone calls to both PIs, and the admin assistant of the initial PI, who said she would e-mail him, then ask him in person.

Several e-mails and something like 4 months later, and after a phone call: finally set meeting with the second PI, working under the first one. (although he's actually the PI for the project I initially wanted to work on.)

I met with him, at last. Was really excited. He promised to send me lit papers to review within the week, at my suggestion, before we meet again. 3 e-mails, several phone calls (most were missed, I left one voice message and got him finally and just asked "just calling to ask what's up?"), and 4 weeks after our meeting, I got the e-mail with the papers to read and my first task of making an excel of the SNPs I'd be looking at. 😀

True story.

Moral of my experience: Keep trying and trying until they say "no". As long as no response or moderately favorable response, keep trying.

God, I felt so guilty prodding the guy incessantly but might have got something sooner if I pushed more frequently.

Really, you have nothing to loose.

[edit] - Just read the other responses. They are great suggestions too, imo.

[edit2] - I am an AAAS member, so we talked about some of their recent papers and stuff and it helped the PI agree to let me come on. So I would say knowing some basic background is very important, but specifics not so much because you'll learn those once you start training if they take you on. I think it's more important to show you're willing to learn than it is to try and show you already know. Especially if you don't really know.

 

[Gisele0820]

Have you thought about clinical research? Go to clinicaltrials.gov and search for an investigator in your area doing research. Studies are almost always understaffed and could use a volunteer to do tasks like data entry or chart review. It doesn't sound as glamorous as working in a stem cell lab but they will usually generate great LORs, give you patient contact experience and a great understanding of what a doctor's job is really like (shadowing doesn't always show you the research, reimbursement and sponsor issues). But again…you need to know if this type of research fits in with your over all career path and goal (ex: spine surgeon is likely a “yes” but oncology may be a “sometimes”).

 

[Catalystik]

At my school, February and March are when the PI starts to consider applications for summer research work, as all the spots are taken after the semester has already begun. Further, there seems to be about a 7:1 ration for PIs contacted vs any response at all. Your relative lack of lab experience isn't necessarily a prohibitive factor if you come across as willing to work hard and be reliable, making at least a 1-year commitment since they'll need to train you (and decide ahead of time how many hours you're willing to dedicate to this lab each week. They'll suck you dry and ruin your GPA if you let them. They may argue with you if you say you can't come during midterms week.)

If you don't hear back in a week to ten days, it's reasonable to email again, but this time attach your transcript and CV (if any). Ask someone higher in the educational pipeline to help you figure out what the publication is about, or read the abstract as was suggested. Start reviewing the research from other labs too, as all the persistence in the world won't get you in the door if there are no spaces available. Everyone wants to do stem cell research these days.

 

[mbe]

thanks for all the posts guys, really helped. i guess i'll just have to be persistent about it.

 

[afugazzi]

When I was looking for a research job this summer, I emailed 6 different profs. The first 4 never got back to me. The 5th said their lab was full. The 6th I am now working for.

Send out emails to more professors. It is good to read the abstracts on their more recent papers to have an idea of what they're doing. This is good to sound smart for the prof but also to make sure they're doing what you want to do. For instance, I wouldn't feel comfortable working in a lab that does animal research (no judgment, I just don't want to have to chop of mouse heads), so I always check their papers to see if they do work with animals.

 

[Tots]

I have worked with my PI for almost a year now and I have only had 2 meetings with her, and been in the same room with her ~4 times. I have never emailed her. She is the department chair and is crazy busy. I work almost exclusively with an Oncology Fellow who is doing research for awhile. Hell, I don't even work in the same building as my PI.

 

[randombetch]

I have worked with my PI for almost a year now and I have only had 2 meetings with her, and been in the same room with her ~4 times. I have never emailed her. She is the department chair and is crazy busy. I work almost exclusively with an Oncology Fellow who is doing research for awhile. Hell, I don't even work in the same building as my PI.

Okay that's realllly not good when it comes time for LORs. You'll have to get your fellow to write it and your PI to co-sign I'm guessing.

 

[orrghead16]

All this talk of rarely meeting with the PI is depressing and, IMO, not the type of lab you want to be in as an undergrad. An LOR from a PI who meets you only 5 times is worthless. On the other hand, talking with your PI every day and truly being mentored is priceless.

Don't hold onto one specific PI because it has the "only" research you find interesting. Find a great mentor and you will be rewarded far more than finding something which you found interesting only in the beginning. Send out some mass emails, be persistent. Make a quality CV (Most PIs will get a kick out of it). Get in the know and find some potential PIs that might be good labs to join. If you want a summer gig, you need to get on the horn ASAP.

 

[austinap]

How big is the lab? I'm a graduate student in our lab, and it often takes my boss >2 weeks to respond to me by email. You just have to learn to not take it personally.

My suggestion would be to email a few graduate students or post-docs in the lab to see what they're working on, see if there is there's any room for you on a project you're interested in, and to get a feel for the lab dynamics. If there's room, and you impress them a little, they'll often get permission for you to join the lab and you won't even have to meet with the PI.

 

[austinap]

All this talk of rarely meeting with the PI is depressing and, IMO, not the type of lab you want to be in as an undergrad. An LOR from a PI who meets you only 5 times is worthless. On the other hand, talking with your PI every day and truly being mentored is priceless.

Don't hold onto one specific PI because it has the "only" research you find interesting. Find a great mentor and you will be rewarded far more than finding something which you found interesting only in the beginning. Send out some mass emails, be persistent. Make a quality CV (Most PIs will get a kick out of it). Get in the know and find some potential PIs that might be good labs to join. If you want a summer gig, you need to get on the horn ASAP.

A few comments on this. First, in a bigger lab it is extremely unlikely that you will be able to meet with your PI weekly, let alone daily. That is simply an unreasonable demand in most cases. Here's how letters work in our lab: undergrads work directly under a graduate student or a post doc. When they want a letter, their direct advisor will draft the letter, then send it to our PI. Our PI then tweaks it, makes it sound sexy, and then signs it and sends it off. Thus, you get a personalized letter, but it carries the boss' signature.

As far as the CV thing goes, be reasonable about it. To be perfectly honest, most undergrads haven't done enough to write a truly impressive CV. We don't blame you for it, but don't try to make it look like you've done something that you haven't. Most importantly, you probably don't have any relevant lab experience (apart from some expected coursework). You should have something written up when you go to a meeting, but don't put a bunch of cheesy stuff on there to fill it up. Add a personalized cover letter, and keep the rest to one page.

Also, don't spam the department. Departments are full of people who talk to one another, and you don't want to get blacklisted.

 

[RookTookIt]

I worked for a pretty big and important PI and plenty of people would express interest in working for him. His research spots were in such high demand, that often he would purposefully ignore first emails to weed out those that really weren't that interested in the work.

I would email again, but be a little more proactive. Say something like "sorry we weren't able to meet last week, but I'm interested in talking and would love to sit down with you." Let her know what your availabilities are in the near future. Attach a resume if it's appropriate. If she still doesn't reply, take the hint.

 

[URHere]

I guess i'll just have to be persistent about it.

My advice would be to wait for at least a week or two before being "persistent about it".

Most PIs are up to their ears in grant submissions right now, and they tend to ignore everyone and everything when grants are due. Hassling them is unlikely to do any good if this is the case, and it may even do harm. You are a first year undergraduate, and you have time to wait. If another few weeks go by and you still haven't heard anything, then send another email or look up the email address of the lab coordinator and ask if they have any need for a research assistant or lab tech. As a student with minimal knowledge, it is most likely that the lab would use you for simple tasks (like doing dishes) before trusting you anywhere near expensive cell lines.

Another thing to consider is that not all labs take undergraduate students - either because their materials are too expensive, because special screening is needed for lab personnel, or because undergrads require training that isn't always worth the time of those in the lab. Are you certain that this particular lab even takes undergraduate students?

 

[randombetch]

My advice would be to wait for at least a week or two before being "persistent about it".

Most PIs are up to their ears in grant submissions right now, and they tend to ignore everyone and everything when grants are due. Hassling them is unlikely to do any good if this is the case, and it may even do harm. You are a first year undergraduate, and you have time to wait. If another few weeks go by and you still haven't heard anything, then send another email or look up the email address of the lab coordinator and ask if they have any need for a research assistant or lab tech. As a student with minimal knowledge, it is most likely that the lab would use you for simple tasks (like doing dishes) before trusting you anywhere near expensive cell lines.

Another thing to consider is that not all labs take undergraduate students - either because their materials are too expensive, because special screening is needed for lab personnel, or because undergrads require training that isn't always worth the time of those in the lab. Are you certain that this particular lab even takes undergraduate students?

I'm just curious, when does this period of grant writing end? What's the normal time period for writing these grant submissions?

 

[RookTookIt]

I'm just curious, when does this period of grant writing end? What's the normal time period for writing these grant submissions?

Not sure about all grants, but for the major R01 grants that this PI is probably writing:
- new submissions are due to NIH this Friday (2/5)
- renewals are a month later (3/5)

 

[randombetch]

Not sure about all grants, but for the major R01 grants that this PI is probably writing:
- new submissions are due to NIH this Friday (2/5)
- renewals are a month later (3/5)

Thank you!

 

[mbe]

a random question here: in terms of getting LOR, how long should i have known the supervisor? is there a difference between getting an LOR after, say, 6months of working with them as opposed to 1year?

 

[Catalystik]

The longer the supervisor has known you, the more value the LOR will have. If you have time constraints, you ask when you need to ask, regardless.