Research 'prestige' and getting published

[lilmissfickle]

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Okay, I'm trying to settle a debate with a friend, and I was wondering if all you SDNers could help me out. Is it more 'prestigious' for med school admission purposes to be, say, 6th author on a publication in a top-tier journal such as Cell/Mol. Cell/Nature/Science, or a 1st/2nd/3rd author on a publication in a 'lower-tiered' publication? What about for admission into grad school or PhD programs?

I personally think the latter, since it shows more dedication to reserach and proves that you actually understood and cared about what you were doing. After all, med schools and grad schools look for your potential to do research...you have the rest of your career *after* you get your grad degree to get published in Cell. Am I right?

 

[Nodelphi]

Okay, I'm trying to settle a debate with a friend, and I was wondering if all you SDNers could help me out. Is it more 'prestigious' for med school admission purposes to be, say, 6th author on a publication in a top-tier journal such as Cell/Mol. Cell/Nature/Science, or a 1st/2nd/3rd author on a publication in a 'lower-tiered' publication? What about for admission into grad school or PhD programs?

I personally think the latter, since it shows more dedication to reserach and proves that you actually understood and cared about what you were doing. After all, med schools and grad schools look for your potential to do research...you have the rest of your career *after* you get your grad degree to get published in Cell. Am I right?

I find it varies from school to school. One school was falling all over themself about my first author paper while others gave me a simple, "that's nice, now tell me about your clinical experiences." So I wouldn't stress too much about who's more dedicated to research.

 

[LizzyM]

Publishing in Cell or another top journal shows that you are in a lab that is doing some pretty impressive stuff. If you are the fifth or sixth author, well, that is no surprise because you are at the bottom of the heap in terms of experience.

Being first or second author in a lower-tier journal shows that you are doing something innovative (or else you shouldn't get published at all) and you are working in a very small group (or otherwise you'd be pushed down the list of authors) or that this is a student project with a mentor.

Just like some people are impressed by top-tier schools, some are impressed by top-tier journals. Others are impressed with authorship of any kind as an indicator of a possible interest in a career in academic medicine (research/teaching & pt care).

Everyone publishes in the best journal they can, and everyone jockeys for position on the author list. Do the best you can with what you've got.

 

[lilmissfickle]

Publishing in Cell or another top journal shows that you are in a lab that is doing some pretty impressive stuff. If you are the fifth or sixth author, well, that is no surprise because you are at the bottom of the heap in terms of experience.

So, adcoms wouldn't automatically dismiss this as washing beakers type busy work? Although, I guess it depends how you talk about it in your PS and on your app -- I imagine it's easy to tell if someone actually knows what they are talking about and whether they're actually passionate about the research they're involved in.

By the way, I think I read a post on here that implied that you're an adcom member? Is this really true or am I just making things up?

 

[Dr. Pepper]

It's better to rule in hell than serve in heaven.
-Dr. P.

 

[nosugrefneb]

Being first or second author in a lower-tier journal shows that you are doing something innovative (or else you shouldn't get published at all) and you are working in a very small group (or otherwise you'd be pushed down the list of authors) or that this is a student project with a mentor.

Or that you did a first-author amount of the work, regardless of lab size.

So, adcoms wouldn't automatically dismiss this as washing beakers type busy work?

Most likely not. If this were the extent of your contribution, you most likely wouldn't make the authorship list in the first place.

 

[squareDR]

Okay, I'm trying to settle a debate with a friend, and I was wondering if all you SDNers could help me out. Is it more 'prestigious' for med school admission purposes to be, say, 6th author on a publication in a top-tier journal such as Cell/Mol. Cell/Nature/Science, or a 1st/2nd/3rd author on a publication in a 'lower-tiered' publication? What about for admission into grad school or PhD programs?

I personally think the latter, since it shows more dedication to reserach and proves that you actually understood and cared about what you were doing. After all, med schools and grad schools look for your potential to do research...you have the rest of your career *after* you get your grad degree to get published in Cell. Am I right?

MDs who are not involved in a lot of research versus those who are (along with PhDs) may respond very differently. The former might be more impressed with the big name journals but the latter know how much it takes to publish anything in the first place and understand that having a first author paper implies some level of scientific sophistication. When you are dealing with grad school, this is especially true. In order to graduate with a Ph.D from most prestigious schools, you have to have at least one first author paper, no matter what the journal. The fact that your name was listed on some big name paper matters very little to your thesis committee.

 

[lilmissfickle]

MDs who are not involved in a lot of research versus those who are (along with PhDs) may respond very differently. The former might be more impressed with the big name journals but the latter know how much it takes to publish anything in the first place and understand that having a first author paper implies some level of scientific sophistication. When you are dealing with grad school, this is especially true. In order to graduate with a Ph.D from most prestigious schools, you have to have at least one first author paper, no matter what the journal. The fact that your name was listed on some big name paper matters very little to your thesis committee.

Thanks for your reply. That definitely makes sense. I guess big name journals can have a 'wow' effect for those who are not very familiar with the academic publishing process. I guess for me, contributing most of the research/writing the paper myself would be a huge learning experience in itself, no matter where it is published, if it all, and would probably prepare me more for grad school than would assisting in a bigger lab doing seminal research.

 

[relentless11]

Okay, I'm trying to settle a debate with a friend, and I was wondering if all you SDNers could help me out. Is it more 'prestigious' for med school admission purposes to be, say, 6th author on a publication in a top-tier journal such as Cell/Mol. Cell/Nature/Science, or a 1st/2nd/3rd author on a publication in a 'lower-tiered' publication? What about for admission into grad school or PhD programs?

I personally think the latter, since it shows more dedication to reserach and proves that you actually understood and cared about what you were doing. After all, med schools and grad schools look for your potential to do research...you have the rest of your career *after* you get your grad degree to get published in Cell. Am I right?

Ultimately, a publication is hardproof of some kind of research work, and being a 1st, 2nd.....10th author only shows that you contributed, and can only be a good thing. Obviously being a 1st or 2nd author looks good, but as someone stated, if it was a huge multicenter study with 20 authors, then being the 10th author isn't bad either.

Strive for the best, but its not the end of the world if you're not the top authors. More importantly, KNOW YOUR RESEARCH. During interviews at a med school, interviewers may ask about your research. Same goes for grad school. As undergrads, not everyone has the opportunity, despite their level of knowledge, experience, or motivation, to be a first or second author. The lab, and what research is done in the lab plays a big role.

In the end, unless if you are doing an MD/PhD program, publications aren't really required. Grad school, its more important, just like MSTPs. I think that one of the big reasons that got me into a PhD program was my list of pubs as an undergrad and post-bacc.

 

[LJDHC05]

It also really depends on the field that you're publishing in. I work in Otolaryngology and once you get past the Science/Nature level journals there's a HUGE amount of variability between journals in the quality of the manuscripts that they publish and the intensity of the review process. Unfortunately, most of these details aren't known outside of the field. Consequently most interviewers wont know the difference between a publication in Hearing Research (Known for a long period of crapy reviewing/easy publishing of manuscripts barely in english) and J. Comparative Neurology (tough to publish in/high quality). But then again, Nature published that S. Korean Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer that turned out to be bogus. So basically, there's no way to say that 10th author on a Science manuscript=3rd author in JBC=1st author in J. Crapola because the peer review process is inherently flawed by the politics of being reviewed by your peers.

As stated above, as an MD applicant your research, no matter how cutting edge/important to the field, gets kind of shuffled off to the side because the interviewers are trying to figure out how well you'd fit into their medical school and potentially interact with patients. On the other hand MD/PhD interviewers will basically pick through your research experiences and publications and schooling to make sure you can cut it in the research world in 4-5 years (versus the 6+ allowed for most PhD programs).

Bottom line, be proud that you've gotten a chance to contribute to the literature, no matter where your work/name ends up. Most applicants haven't published a mere abstract, let alone being listed as an intellectual contributor to a peer-reviewed Journal article. Oh and enjoy seeing your name on pub-med, because that's a pretty cool accomplishment!

 

[Frank Hardy]

It's better to rule in hell than serve in heaven.
-Dr. P.

Although I don't agree. Nice.