Research project on my own

[NotASerialKiller]

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OP I would focus more on really thinking about the advice you're being given, not on arguing your counterpoint. Goro and mimelim are exactly the kinds of people you want to be taking advice from, and have very very clearly explain how it will be viewed and what they think you should do. It's okay if you personally disagree with them, but when you say you don't see why it would be seen in a bad light... well they already told you why. No one can control what you do, but you came here to get advice and find out how it would be viewed. Now you know. You can choose to follow it or not.

 

[horse__pills]

maybe i should clarify: I'm not pretending to know how adcoms view independent research. i did my research out of interest, not as an alternative to work or volunteering or what other people are suggesting. i was merely sharing my experience

 

[Halcyon32]

Why you are taking time off from school has nothing to do with anything in my post. Well, I sat an an admissions committee and I absolutely would have said that. It isn't 'admirable' to try to do research on your own. It doesn't show something positive about you. Take it from someone doing research full time for two years now and having sat on an admissions committee, this is a waste of your time. As previously stated Walmart experience > self directed research. But, as SS points out, you have no interest in listening to anyone else, even those that know this process and research a heck of a lot better than you. From where I sit, inability to take constructive criticism or advice is a far bigger red-flag than any of this.

OP I would focus more on really thinking about the advice you're being given, not on arguing your counterpoint. Goro and mimelim are exactly the kinds of people you want to be taking advice from, and have very very clearly explain how it will be viewed and what they think you should do. It's okay if you personally disagree with them, but when you say you don't see why it would be seen in a bad light... well they already told you why. No one can control what you do, but you came here to get advice and find out how it would be viewed. Now you know. You can choose to follow it or not.

I don't understand how you got the impression that I have no interest in listening to anyone when I already said that I realize now from the advice i've been given, specifically from SS and you, as well, that pursuing this would be unnecessary and not beneficial. Why would I not heed the advice of people who clearly know these situations thousands of times better than me. All I was trying to do by arguing my counterpoint was gain insight on why that's the case and how my independent venture would be perceived, not trying to defend my case. Thanks for your advice...that being said would you be willing to give me advice on what I CAN do, if writing a review article would really be seen negatively? Like I said, volunteering, working and anything of the sort would be out of the question. Again, I'm not trying to prove a point, just gain valuable information.

maybe i should clarify: I'm not pretending to know how adcoms view independent research. i did my research out of interest, not as an alternative to work or volunteering or what other people are suggesting. i was merely sharing my experience

Thanks for sharing your personal experience I appreciate it!

 

[Gandyy]

Me having high stats =/= genius

In fact, most of you SDNers probably have better grades than me! I only pulled a 3.3 in HS and 3.7 in college (by boosting my cGPA and sGPA w/ easy science electives 😛). I've done a ton of stuff outside of school, but academically I am most certainly not at the top of the pyramid.

Thanks for the kind words though 😀

I don't think it'd take anyone significantly longer than me to write a review. A year is more than sufficient if you know what you're doing

nah man, you have the strongest application I've ever seen on SDN. I've been on here for about a year so thats gotta count for something.

 

[Noctámbulo]

OP, you do not have to be affiliated with a university to get involved with research. Look (Google) around you, find some labs with projects that are of particular interest to you, and email the PIs asking if they would be willing to have you in their lab this semester.

 

[Dandine]

@Halcyon32

Speaking as someone who is interested in research but considered different options with being out of school (gap year), here are some of my thoughts. Take or leave what you will:

-Without a lab it's difficult to understand what actually goes on within the research. You can read about it, which is great, but without having data or working with it directly, it's a very different experience. I emphasize on the word "different": if you want to write that's fine, but immersing yourself in how data is gathered gives you more perspective on what the data actually means.

-From people I've spoken to in research, publishing a review is difficult if you're not an expert in your field. I wouldn't say it's impossible but mentorship will be exceedingly valuable if this is what you're interested in. You'll need input within the field you want to work in to make sure what you're writing is good for where you want to publish.
...Maybe contact different publishing places for how undergrad research would be viewed? (someone check me on this?)

-As many people have said, if you're doing research just for the application or getting noticed by schools, it won't come off as well. I do think from what you said that you like the field you want to study, so just make sure you're doing things to keep that interest alive. Again, I'd emphasize getting good mentors in whatever field you want to do.

To sum: Research can be amazing if you're in it, but make sure you get good mentorship and that you're doing it for the right reasons.

What kind of research are you interested in, if I may ask (clinical, bench, etc)? Also are you interested in research or just starting or in a lab now?

 

[Halcyon32]

@Halcyon32

Speaking as someone who is interested in research but considered different options with being out of school (gap year), here are some of my thoughts. Take or leave what you will:

-Without a lab it's difficult to understand what actually goes on within the research. You can read about it, which is great, but without having data or working with it directly, it's a very different experience. I emphasize on the word "different": if you want to write that's fine, but immersing yourself in how data is gathered gives you more perspective on what the data actually means.

-From people I've spoken to in research, publishing a review is difficult if you're not an expert in your field. I wouldn't say it's impossible but mentorship will be exceedingly valuable if this is what you're interested in. You'll need input within the field you want to work in to make sure what you're writing is good for where you want to publish.
...Maybe contact different publishing places for how undergrad research would be viewed? (someone check me on this?)

-As many people have said, if you're doing research just for the application or getting noticed by schools, it won't come off as well. I do think from what you said that you like the field you want to study, so just make sure you're doing things to keep that interest alive. Again, I'd emphasize getting good mentors in whatever field you want to do.

To sum: Research can be amazing if you're in it, but make sure you get good mentorship and that you're doing it for the right reasons.

What kind of research are you interested in, if I may ask (clinical, bench, etc)? Also are you interested in research or just starting or in a lab now?

Ideally, I would be into clinical research but I don't see how likely that would be as an undergrad because I feel like you need to have affiliations with a physician. But I would be fine doing any type of research so long as I learn something interesting/useful from it. And what exactly do you mean by am I interested in "research or just starting" and I'm definitely not in a lab now unfortunately.

 

[Dandine]

Ideally, I would be into clinical research but I don't see how likely that would be as an undergrad because I feel like you need to have affiliations with a physician. But I would be fine doing any type of research so long as I learn something interesting/useful from it. And what exactly do you mean by am I interested in "research or just starting" and I'm definitely not in a lab now unfortunately.

Clinical research doesn't necessarily need to be affiliated with a physician; it's being able to look at different treatment outcomes within a group of people. Many scientists do clinical research and not just physicians. That said you'd probably need to find a lab where data is constantly being gathered.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-clinical-research.htm#didyouknowout

Whoops, I didn't catch that last part, but I got it now. I was mainly asking for past research experience but you said you wanted to learn about the process, so nm. 🙂

 

[avgn]

What are you doing in this foreign country where you don't know the language? You're there just to study for the MCAT full-time? Something about this story doesn't add up. Probably irrelevant to this thread, though lol

 

[MrLogan13]

Where are you? Even if you don't know the language and can't volunteer with a local organization, there must be some international organizations there that you can work with.

 

[Halcyon32]

What are you doing in this foreign country where you don't know the language? You're there just to study for the MCAT full-time? Something about this story doesn't add up. Probably irrelevant to this thread, though lol

I mentioned above that i'm here to get my international student visa . This is the country I was born in but I've lived in America all my life so I don't know the language here. I'm studying for the MCAT like crazy just so I have something to do that will help me get into med school. (It's hard enough as it is as an international student)

Clinical research doesn't necessarily need to be affiliated with a physician; it's being able to look at different treatment outcomes within a group of people. Many scientists do clinical research and not just physicians. That said you'd probably need to find a lab where data is constantly being gathered.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-clinical-research.htm#didyouknowout

Whoops, I didn't catch that last part, but I got it now. I was mainly asking for past research experience but you said you wanted to learn about the process, so nm. 🙂

Thanks a lot for the advice it's really helpful. Are you also of the mind that independently starting to write a review article to submit to a journal (undergrad or above) would ultimately negatively affect someone?

 

[Halcyon32]

Where are you? Even if you don't know the language and can't volunteer with a local organization, there must be some international organizations there that you can work with.

Not much in the way of international organizations where I'm at as far as I know. Not to mention I can't drive and going long distances at a fixed schedule is virtually an impossibility. 🙁

 

[avgn]

I mentioned above that i'm here to get my international student visa . This is the country I was born in but I've lived in America all my life so I don't know the language here. I'm studying for the MCAT like crazy just so I have something to do that will help me get into med school. (It's hard enough as it is as an international student)

Okay I see. Just thought your situation was a little weird. Good luck

I also think there are better uses for your time. FWIW I'm doing my own independent research this year as well (while applying and working full-time), but it's in a field where independent work is the norm as long as there is/are professor(s) to check in with you and make sure your work in progress isn't crap. If you want to do your own research from abroad, it would have to be non-science because the norm in science fields doesn't allow for the flexibility you're looking for. If you've no training in any other field, though, this is ill-suited for you.

 

[Halcyon32]

Okay I see. Just thought your situation was a little weird. Good luck

I also think there are better uses for your time. FWIW I'm doing my own independent research this year as well (while applying and working full-time), but it's in a field where independent work is the norm as long as there is/are professor(s) to check in with you and make sure your work in progress isn't crap. If you want to do your own research from abroad, it would have to be non-science because the norm in science fields doesn't allow for the flexibility you're looking for. If you've no training in any other field, though, this is ill-suited for you.

The type of research I was planning on doing integrated the psychological aspect of a medical condition so I don't know if it is strictly a science field topic although it is certainly related to some capacity. Thanks for your input and advice!

 

[avgn]

The type of research I was planning on doing integrated the psychological aspect of a medical condition so I don't know if it is strictly a science field topic although it is certainly related to some capacity. Thanks for your input and advice!

If you're trying to write a review and submit it to a medically related journal, you'll be held to the standards for the medical field. Which is that reviews aren't written by undergrads alone (actually this is a research-wide trend). Practically speaking, doing substantive research without a physical lab is impossible in science, so I think you're outta luck with the research idea.

 

[Halcyon32]

If you're trying to write a review and submit it to a medically related journal, you'll be held to the standards for the medical field. Which is that reviews aren't written by undergrads alone (actually this is a research-wide trend). Practically speaking, doing substantive research without a physical lab is impossible in science, so I think you're outta luck with the research idea.

What if one were to submit it to an undergrad journal? What other group of people but undergrads submit to undergrad journals?

 

[md-2020]

What if one were to submit it to an undergrad journal? What other group of people but undergrads submit to undergrad journals?

None, for obvious reasons.


UG journals <<<<<<<<< real journals though.

 

[Halcyon32]

None, for obvious reasons.


UG journals <<<<<<<<< real journals though.

Right on, thanks for the perspective! 😀

 

[Goro]

If an undergrad journal isn't in Pubmed, it's not a real journal.

What if one were to submit it to an undergrad journal? What other group of people but undergrads submit to undergrad journals?

 

[Halcyon32]

If an undergrad journal isn't in Pubmed, it's not a real journal.

Oh wow, I didn't know there was that much of a difference.

 

[Dandine]

Are you also of the mind that independently starting to write a review article to submit to a journal (undergrad or above) would ultimately negatively affect someone?

I don't think it's negative, but it kind of depends on where you are in the timeline.

If you were writing and didn't have anyone to verify that you were writing by the time you start applying, that might not be viewed positively if you couldn't talk about what you were actually writing about or investigating.

Also keep in mind that reviews take a while to write because it involves a lot of reading of the current literature and synthesizing them. Doing a mini-review as part of a data-driven investigation can take a while in itself. Therefore you'd have to develop a solid plan for yourself about how long you'd spend writing.

At least from fellow SDN-ers and people in research, publications depend on who's reading them; hence why undergrad journals have less of a reputation. If you've never done research in a certain field before, definitely get as much help as you can from people in it because that will be one way to get a shot at publishing somewhere. But again: it's more beneficial to go for the actual research quality, not for the prestige.

**Bottom line is that self-publishing could be seen as shallow if you didn't take the time to get to know your field. But if you can discuss your interest AND what you have learned to others who ask about it, that will be much more beneficial in the long-run.

 

[Halcyon32]

I don't think it's negative, but it kind of depends on where you are in the timeline.

If you were writing and didn't have anyone to verify that you were writing by the time you start applying, that might not be viewed positively if you couldn't talk about what you were actually writing about or investigating.

Also keep in mind that reviews take a while to write because it involves a lot of reading of the current literature and synthesizing them. Doing a mini-review as part of a data-driven investigation can take a while in itself. Therefore you'd have to develop a solid plan for yourself about how long you'd spend writing.

At least from fellow SDN-ers and people in research, publications depend on who's reading them; hence why undergrad journals have less of a reputation. If you've never done research in a certain field before, definitely get as much help as you can from people in it because that will be one way to get a shot at publishing somewhere. But again: it's more beneficial to go for the actual research quality, not for the prestige.

**Bottom line is that self-publishing could be seen as shallow if you didn't take the time to get to know your field. But if you can discuss your interest AND what you have learned to others who ask about it, that will be much more beneficial in the long-run.

Thank you so much that really helps! Appreciate it 🙂

 

[Doug Underhill]

Attempting to do research on your own without a PI or an academic affiliation is the equivalent of attempting to practice medicine on your own without an attending physician or clinic.

OK, maybe not quite that bad or illegal, but still bad.