Research Question for Medical Students

[cas123_]

Research for med school

Sophomore pre med, kind of panicking. I plan to go to med school once I graduate. I do hospital volunteering, worked at an eye clinic for a year, started a pharmacy tech job, do ESL tutoring, tutored math at my college and for elementary- middle school kids. I shadow physicians weekly and will likely be starting a volunteer scribing position soon and also tutor chemistry on campus. I plan to keep a 4.0 GPA . I haven’t started MCAT studying but I’ll be more concerned with that next year. My only worry is, will med school deny me if I haven’t done research at all. I’ve reached out to multiple med school clinical trials , they say they’re not taking people. I’ve reached out to professors and they say they’re not looking for assistants. Can someone please tell me how crucial research is when it comes to med school admission. Have any of gotten into med school without doing any research ? Thanks

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[PhoenixRising77]

I have done research but in my experience there are students who have gotten into med school without research. My question for you is: do you want to do research? If so, I would look into SURP and REU paid summer programs; the NIH has one: Summer Internship Program (SIP)

 

[cas123_]

I have done research but in my experience there are students who have gotten into med school without research. My question for you is: do you want to do research? If so, I would look into SURP and REU paid summer programs; the NIH has one: Summer Internship Program (SIP)

Personally no, it’s not something I genuinely enjoy like I enjoy tutoring in my free time. I love tutoring a lot because it ties into what i see myself doing before retirement which is being a professor at a med school. But I just feel this pressure to have some form of research done Bc every current med student I know has done some in undergrad. But I don’t know if it’s a deal breaker for medical school admissions

 

[PhoenixRising77]

Personally no, it’s not something I genuinely enjoy like I enjoy tutoring in my free time. I love tutoring a lot because it ties into what i see myself doing before retirement which is being a professor at a med school. But I just feel this pressure to have some form of research done Bc every current med student I know has done some in undergrad. But I don’t know if it’s a deal breaker for medical school admissions

So, if you’re not targeting research schools you’re probably fine. It might be worth doing a summer program (maybe close to home) just to see what research is all about. I do think it would be best to get feedback though from the experts here on SDN (I am not an expert).

 

[GoSpursGo]

You don’t need research to get into med school, though it may hold you back from research focused schools. In addition to excellent stats and tons of hours, they generally look for some sort of story that shows how you’re special and are really poised to grow up to be a leader someday. Not that they don’t also train plenty of good PCPs etc, but that really is part of their mission, to train future academic leaders. This is likely less important for your state schools and more service/primary care focused schools. Research tends to be the “easiest” way to stand out. There are other ways to do it, but again this really comes down to having some sort of substantial leadership position and having it really be fruitful. This is often quite difficult for students who apply straight out of college to have things that are truly meaningful, because all of their focus was on just doing well academically (as it should be).

I will point out that the tutoring is likely not super impressive. It’s fine to do it if it’s something you’re passionate about and you enjoy doing it, but I would not lean on that as your primary source of nonclinical volunteering hours. You should aim to get yourself out of your comfort zone and interacting with people different from you outside of an academic space.

 

[Rachapkis]

Research is not necessary to be accepted to medical school unless you want to go to a research heavy school. A ton of shadowing is not necessary either. Focus on your GPA, your MCAT score, and volunteering.

 

[Goro]

Research for med school

Sophomore pre med, kind of panicking. I plan to go to med school once I graduate. I do hospital volunteering, worked at an eye clinic for a year, started a pharmacy tech job, do ESL tutoring, tutored math at my college and for elementary- middle school kids. I shadow physicians weekly and will likely be starting a volunteer scribing position soon and also tutor chemistry on campus. I plan to keep a 4.0 GPA . I haven’t started MCAT studying but I’ll be more concerned with that next year. My only worry is, will med school deny me if I haven’t done research at all. I’ve reached out to multiple med school clinical trials , they say they’re not taking people. I’ve reached out to professors and they say they’re not looking for assistants. Can someone please tell me how crucial research is when it comes to med school admission. Have any of gotten into med school without doing any research ? Thanks

You don't need research to get into.medical school.

Do yourself a favor and engage in service to others less fortunate to yourself.

 

[cas123_]

You don't need research to get into.medical school.

Do yourself a favor and engage in service to others less fortunate to yourself.

The scribing is a volunteer at a clinic for those without health care insurance. For what I have so far , what do you think ? Critique my “resume”

 

[cas123_]

Research is not necessary to be accepted to medical school unless you want to go to a research heavy school. A ton of shadowing is not necessary either. Focus on your GPA, your MCAT score, and volunteering.

Thanks , but what are your thoughts on what I have so far. Critique my “resume “

 

[cas123_]

You don’t need research to get into med school, though it may hold you back from research focused schools. In addition to excellent stats and tons of hours, they generally look for some sort of story that shows how you’re special and are really poised to grow up to be a leader someday. Not that they don’t also train plenty of good PCPs etc, but that really is part of their mission, to train future academic leaders. This is likely less important for your state schools and more service/primary care focused schools. Research tends to be the “easiest” way to stand out. There are other ways to do it, but again this really comes down to having some sort of substantial leadership position and having it really be fruitful. This is often quite difficult for students who apply straight out of college to have things that are truly meaningful, because all of their focus was on just doing well academically (as it should be).

I will point out that the tutoring is likely not super impressive. It’s fine to do it if it’s something you’re passionate about and you enjoy doing it, but I would not lean on that as your primary source of nonclinical volunteering hours. You should aim to get yourself out of your comfort zone and interacting with people different from you outside of an academic space.

I was a Walmart cashier and interacted with many circumstances of a language barrier I worked through, at the eye clinic I was immersed with ppl of many different cultures and had to translate from Arabic to English a few times to the optometrist, and I’m a pharmacy tech. These are out of the academic scope, what are your thoughts

 

[GoSpursGo]

I was a Walmart cashier and interacted with many circumstances of a language barrier I worked through, at the eye clinic I was immersed with ppl of many different cultures and had to translate from Arabic to English a few times to the optometrist, and I’m a pharmacy tech. These are out of the academic scope, what are your thoughts

Frankly the pharmacy tech doesn’t help you at all—it is a completely different type of healthcare field. It would make more sense if you were going to pharm school. It didn’t teach your what being a physician entails.

You did the eye clinic for clinical experience. You worked as a Walmart cashier for a paycheck. I’m not going to buy that you did either of these things to get out of your comfort zone and volunteer your time for the less fortunate.

Sorry. These are undoubtedly meaningful experiences and you can certainly speak to what you learned through them. But you asked pointedly whether these would be good enough, and there is a reason that nonclinical volunteering to the less fortunate is stressed in this process.

 

[Angler]

I plan to keep a 4.0 GPA . I haven’t started MCAT studying but I’ll be more concerned with that next year.

If you have a 4.0 and 52x MCAT, without research, you might be subject to the "doughnut hole," to some extent. Stats high enough to be yield protected at some lower tier schools, but screened out at high tier schools (many want to see research). Don't go searching "doughnut hole" either; I just made up that term (docs who care for medicare patients will understand). But you're still a sophomore, so enjoy life while it isn't complicated. Do the volunteering (more important than research) and work toward that 4.0/52x. If you still have no research when you are ready to apply, and you feel you need it, then take a gap year or two, and do it then.

 

[cas123_]

Frankly the pharmacy tech doesn’t help you at all—it is a completely different type of healthcare field. It would make more sense if you were going to pharm school. It didn’t teach your what being a physician entails.

You did the eye clinic for clinical experience. You worked as a Walmart cashier for a paycheck. I’m not going to buy that you did either of these things to get out of your comfort zone and volunteer your time for the less fortunate.

Sorry. These are undoubtedly meaningful experiences and you can certainly speak to what you learned through them. But you asked pointedly whether these would be good enough, and there is a reason that nonclinical volunteering to the less fortunate is stressed in this process.

Ok…. What about volunteer scribing at a clinic that serves to help those without health insurance. Sorry but I feel like you’re overthinking. Multiple current physicians I’ve spoken to say a pharmacy tech job is good.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Ok…. What about volunteer scribing at a clinic that serves to help those without health insurance. Sorry but I feel like you’re overthinking. Multiple current physicians I’ve spoken to say a pharmacy tech job is good.

Look, I’m not saying you’ll never get into med school if you have a 4.0 and 52x if you’re lacking nonclinical volunteering to the less fortunate. But there is a reason that most of the experts recommend having at least 150 hours of nonclinical volunteering. It is important you interact with people who are different from you in a nonclinical, non academic setting. If you don’t have research and you don’t have some of these nonclinical experiences, then I think you’re going to hit the “donut hole” for a bunch of schools in that your stats are great but you’re really not hitting the mission of the schools. As a sophomore it just seems like it should be easy for you to prioritize picking up some of these hours over some of these other activities like tutoring.

A big part of why clinical experience is important is you need to prove you know what you’re getting yourself into with med school, and that means you need to see and interact with physicians. I’m not sure who is telling you a pharm tech position counts, but as a med school faculty member I am telling you that this is not the kind of clinical experience I would look for. Your scribing experience would satisfy the requirement much better.

 

[cas123_]

Look, I’m not saying you’ll never get into med school if you have a 4.0 and 52x if you’re lacking nonclinical volunteering to the less fortunate. But there is a reason that most of the experts recommend having at least 150 hours of nonclinical volunteering. It is important you interact with people who are different from you in a nonclinical, non academic setting. If you don’t have research and you don’t have some of these nonclinical experiences, then I think you’re going to hit the “donut hole” for a bunch of schools in that your stats are great but you’re really not hitting the mission of the schools. As a sophomore it just seems like it should be easy for you to prioritize picking up some of these hours over some of these other activities like tutoring.

A big part of why clinical experience is important is you need to prove you know what you’re getting yourself into with med school, and that means you need to see and interact with physicians. I’m not sure who is telling you a pharm tech position counts, but as a med school faculty member I am telling you that this is not the kind of clinical experience I would look for. Your scribing experience would satisfy the requirement much better.

What would you consider non clinical volunteering ?

Also, I do have clinical experience, I worked at an eye clinic for a year and found a volunteer scribe position. Also, I am not sure how pharmacy tech wouldn’t count considering you can become immunization certified and give patients flu shots.

When it really comes down to it, I just like people. I like talking to people, meeting new people, and getting to really know and help others. I’d love to be a doctor, whether I had all these things on a resume to prove that or not, I love interacting with people, and find that people also like me and feel comfortable around me pretty quickly. A guy in my bio 2 class that I never spoke to until the last two days said, “ yeah, you’d definitely make a good doctor, I’ve only spoken to you twice but feel a sense of comfort from you and you seem trustworthy.” And yeah, you can have all the “check points” on a resume, or may have volunteered to check some boxes, but might have poor bedside manner, and not be the friendliest regardless of how extensive your resume might be. It all comes down to whether you have genuine compassion or not, which sometimes a resume can’t validate.

I find it very easy to connect and get along with just about anyone. Which tbh, paired with a good sense of academics, is all that should matter when wanting to be a doctor, genuine concern, care, and the desire to help others.

Back then, I read that all you needed to get into med school was a good GPA, mcat, and maybe some volunteering. Not sure why the stats have upped so much.

Also, could you please private message me a form of your contact info. Maybe a number, I think you’d be very helpful throughout this pre med journey. Thanks

 

[Mr.Smile12]

What would you consider non clinical volunteering ?

Also, I do have clinical experience, I worked at an eye clinic for a year and found a volunteer scribe position. Also, I am not sure how pharmacy tech wouldn’t count considering you can become immunization certified and give patients flu shots.

When it really comes down to it, I just like people. I like talking to people, meeting new people, and getting to really know and help others. I’d love to be a doctor, whether I had all these things on a resume to prove that or not, I love interacting with people, and find that people also like me and feel comfortable around me pretty quickly. A guy in my bio 2 class that I never spoke to until the last two days said, “ yeah, you’d definitely make a good doctor, I’ve only spoken to you twice but feel a sense of comfort from you and you seem trustworthy.” And yeah, you can have all the “check points” on a resume, or may have volunteered to check some boxes, but might have poor bedside manner, and not be the friendliest regardless of how extensive your resume might be. It all comes down to whether you have genuine compassion or not, which sometimes a resume can’t validate.

I find it very easy to connect and get along with just about anyone. Which tbh, paired with a good sense of academics, is all that should matter when wanting to be a doctor, genuine concern, care, and the desire to help others.

Back then, I read that all you needed to get into med school was a good GPA, mcat, and maybe some volunteering. Not sure why the stats have upped so much.

Also, could you please private message me a form of your contact info. Maybe a number, I think you’d be very helpful throughout this pre med journey. Thanks

Why not physician assistant? Nursing/NP?

You would need many more hours but your pharmacy tech experience with immunization certification and your scribing can be put into direct patient experience hours and probably some health care experience when you aren't face-to-face with patients.

PAs and NPs tend to talk to and meet with patients more than MDs, and they tend to do the immunizations than physicians on a day to day basis.

Explain what you mean by "a good sense of academics". Some of us academics want to know what you mean or what you have. Arguing with experienced professors and administrators, for example, does not really show "a good sense iof academics. "

What do your prehealth advisors say?

 

[cas123_]

Why not physician assistant? Nursing/NP?

You would need many more hours but your pharmacy tech experience with immunization certification and your scribing can be put into direct patient experience hours and probably some health care experience when you aren't face-to-face with patients.

PAs and NPs tend to talk to and meet with patients more than MDs, and they tend to do the immunizations than physicians on a day to day basis.

Explain what you mean by "a good sense of academics". Some of us academics want to know what you mean or what you have. Arguing with experienced professors and administrators, for example, does not really show "a good sense iof academics. "

I mean a good GPA and good MCAT score. I’m more interested in being a doctor because I enjoy being in the know of the patients health from the beginning, and I enjoy the depth of it.

A lot of ppl recommend working at a hospital, but they usually want certifications worth hundreds sometimes thousands to pay for, and at least 20hr/week schedule, which as an undergrad, with school and family responsibilities, is pretty difficult to fit in. The pharmacy tech job is more flexible with hours.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I mean a good GPA and good MCAT score. I’m more interested in being a doctor because I enjoy being in the know of the patients health from the beginning, and I enjoy the depth of it.

Have you talked with PAs or NPs? The ones I know learn to read patient EMRs before meeting them and can follow their health course over time. They tend to be more compassionate than the doctors, since that is a strength you say you have.

A lot of ppl recommend working at a hospital, but they usually want certifications worth hundreds sometimes thousands to pay for, and at least 20hr/week schedule, which as an undergrad, with school and family responsibilities, is pretty difficult to fit in. The pharmacy tech job is more flexible with hours.

It hasn't stopped thousands of other premeds and preprofessional students at your stage (sophomores). Does your prehealth office offer opportunities to volunteer or work in nearby hospitals or clinics? How many "ask me anything (doctors/professionals)" interview articles on SDN have you read?

Nonclinical volunteering: food distribution, shelter work, job or tax preparation, legal assistance, transportation services, and housing rehabilitation are most impactful examples that show you can help others in distress from a position of humility and not a subject matter expert (like tutoring or coaching). Many of your overall activities (including clinical) should touch underprivileged or marginalized communities unlike yourself or your identities. Off-campus is preferred.

 

[GoSpursGo]

What would you consider non clinical volunteering ?

See @Mr.Smile12 's list. Any of the bread and butter food pantry, Habitat for Humanity, homeless shelter stuff is a good start.

Also, I do have clinical experience, I worked at an eye clinic for a year and found a volunteer scribe position. Also, I am not sure how pharmacy tech wouldn’t count considering you can become immunization certified and give patients flu shots.

When it really comes down to it, I just like people. I like talking to people, meeting new people, and getting to really know and help others. I’d love to be a doctor, whether I had all these things on a resume to prove that or not, I love interacting with people, and find that people also like me and feel comfortable around me pretty quickly. A guy in my bio 2 class that I never spoke to until the last two days said, “ yeah, you’d definitely make a good doctor, I’ve only spoken to you twice but feel a sense of comfort from you and you seem trustworthy.” And yeah, you can have all the “check points” on a resume, or may have volunteered to check some boxes, but might have poor bedside manner, and not be the friendliest regardless of how extensive your resume might be. It all comes down to whether you have genuine compassion or not, which sometimes a resume can’t validate.

I find it very easy to connect and get along with just about anyone. Which tbh, paired with a good sense of academics, is all that should matter when wanting to be a doctor, genuine concern, care, and the desire to help others.

Back then, I read that all you needed to get into med school was a good GPA, mcat, and maybe some volunteering. Not sure why the stats have upped so much.

Not saying you can't get into med school with your current list of activities. But you came here looking for advice, and I'm suggesting that some of the time you are spending may not be optimal or may not be the strongest choices for showing your readiness for medical school. Which at the end of the day is fine! Not everything you do needs to be hyper-focused on getting into med school, and there should be plenty of time for doing things as a pre-med just because you enjoy doing them. You just should ensure that somewhere along the way you do "check the boxes"--that phrasing has a negative connotation, however in any other field it would be described as gaining relevant experience. As noted above, you can do a lot of things in life because you like people and you like talking to people and you did well in college, and none of that is specific for being a physician.

Also, could you please private message me a form of your contact info. Maybe a number, I think you’d be very helpful throughout this pre med journey. Thanks

Um... no

 

[Goro]

The scribing is a volunteer at a clinic for those without health care insurance. For what I have so far , what do you think ? Critique my “resume”

That's a clinical experience. And in scribing, you're doing something for the doctor, not the patients.

So I repeat myself, engage in service to others less fortunate than yourself in a non-clinical setting and especially off campus and outside of your comfort zone

Look, Medicine is a service profession, so you have to show off your altruism. You're a people person? Prove it.

Service need not be "unique"; it can be anything that helps people unable to help themselves and that is outside of a patient-care setting. If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients.

Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities.

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching literacy or ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Meals on Wheels, mentoring immigrant/refugee adults, being a friendly visitor to shut-ins, adaptive sports program coach or Special Olympics

 

[Hollow Knight]

Look, I’m not saying you’ll never get into med school if you have a 4.0 and 52x if you’re lacking nonclinical volunteering to the less fortunate.

@cas123_ , you're getting great advice in this thread, including from GoSpursGo.

Just for posterity- I sometimes review apps like this for my med school; perfect grades, crazy high MCAT, multiple pubs, etc. However, I recommend that we NOT admit them because they don't have non-clinical volunteer work. Will this applicant get into med school somewhere? Almost certainly. Or even my med school? Maybe. But there are people in the admissions process like me who REALLY care to see that you have a servant's heart, or at least that you have the social awareness to pretend that you do. Just go to a soup kitchen once a week for an hour, even if you don't feel like it.

 

[cas123_]

That's a clinical experience. And in scribing, you're doing something for the doctor, not the patients.

So I repeat myself, engage in service to others less fortunate than yourself in a non-clinical setting and especially off campus and outside of your comfort zone

Look, Medicine is a service profession, so you have to show off your altruism. You're a people person? Prove it.

Service need not be "unique"; it can be anything that helps people unable to help themselves and that is outside of a patient-care setting. If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients.

Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities.

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching literacy or ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Meals on Wheels, mentoring immigrant/refugee adults, being a friendly visitor to shut-ins, adaptive sports program coach or Special Olympics

Yes I tutor ESL for refugees, that’s listed.