Research question..

[xnfs93hy]

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I plan on attending a CC for a year or two before transferring and I was just wondering how I should go about getting into research.

Is it possible?

If so, how can I seek a research opportunity.

I plan on applying MD/P.hD. So, I don't know. Should I wait until I get to uni or what?

 

[armybound]

I think it would be hard to find research experience at a CC, but some professors may be doing research. Start asking around.

You may also look for clinical research opportunities at a local hospital if you have one.

 

[CyclistOK]

I think it would be hard to find research experience at a CC, but some professors may be doing research. Start asking around.

You may also look for clinical research opportunities at a local hospital if you have one.

Many "local" hospitals really won't have any research opportunities for undergrads. You would be looking for large university associated hospitals or hospitals that have large research involvement i.e. Johns Hopkins Hospital, Mayo or MD Anderson. Your local, "Podunk Regional Hospital" will most likely not have any opportunities.

Your best bet is to ask your science professors about their research and see if they will allow you to help out. Another good way to get involved is to apply for one of several research fellowships during the summer that will pair you with a faculty member, and often pay you a stipend.

Being at a community college will severely limit your access to research positions.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Many "local" hospitals really won't have any research opportunities for undergrads. You would be looking for large university associated hospitals or hospitals that have large research involvement i.e. Johns Hopkins Hospital, Mayo or MD Anderson. Your local, "Podunk Regional Hospital" will most likely not have any opportunities.

Your best bet is to ask your science professors about their research and see if they will allow you to help out. Another good way to get involved is to apply for one of several research fellowships during the summer that will pair you with a faculty member, and often pay you a stipend.

Being at a community college will severely limit your access to research positions.

If I go to one am I screwed for applying MD/P.hD?

 

[jtimmer1]

Realistically, yes.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Would I be screwed if I only spent, let's say, a year there?

And then transferred...

 

[Crazyday]

Assuming you've never done any research, how are you certain you want to do MD/PhD? Do you even know what an MD/PhD track entails?

 

[xnfs93hy]

Assuming you've never done any research, how are you certain you want to do MD/PhD? Do you even know what an MD/PhD track entails?

Yes, I know what it entails.

I'm not certain but it is something I am looking into.

 

[CielloStelatto]

crazyday makes a good point. First things first, get yourself into some research. If it's something you're serious about, you'll find a way to make it work, even if it does mean "volunteering" at a local lab. That way you'll have an upper hand with lab experience when you apply for a real lab job, or try to work with a prof.

 

[sully677]

To get into an MD/PhD program, you need to show that you are committed to research. Most programs like to see applicants with 2+ years of research with one PI. If you really want to go MD/PhD, then take a year or so off after undergrad and work in a lab to demonstrate your desire for research. Pubs and posters help as well.

 

[taylormade2006]

What is the best way to get more research experience if you are out of school?

Independent literature reviews?

Is there any way to do so?

 

[sully677]

Well you could go to a university and look for a research assistant job or you could write a grant and hope you receive some sort of stipend. Writing grants and receiving them with no research experience would be rather difficult.

 

[orrghead16]

Most medical schools (not read as hospitals) have abundant research opportunities that are largely untapped by undergrads especially with universities that are not affiliated with an undergrad college. This can pay some huge advantages especially if you work outside of the summer research programs.

For one, the professors are not constantly flogged by undergrads and, as a result, are not so stuck on stereotypes and are much more willing to give you neat projects, etc. Thats not to say this doesn't happen in affiliated universities, but it is I think the chances of getting put on busy work increases because they can afford to do so. Obviously, the disadvantage could be that the professors are more foreing to working with undergrads. For two, many of these labs are much more biomedical and/or translational; that is a G-spot for adcoms when you start talking about your translational research.

Doing research that was actually affiliated with my undergrad was such a pain; too many useless hoops and rules. I feel the same way about the summer programs... rigged in such a way to give a pre-med 3 months of "experience". In and out.

Of course, that is all opinion.

But do realize that pre-MD/PhDs are the gunners of the gunners. Being at a CC could hinder you. Why not go straight to University?

 

[ChinaDoll]

Most medical schools (not read as hospitals) have abundant research opportunities that are largely untapped by undergrads especially with universities that are not affiliated with an undergrad college. This can pay some huge advantages especially if you work outside of the summer research programs.

For one, the professors are not constantly flogged by undergrads and, as a result, are not so stuck on stereotypes and are much more willing to give you neat projects, etc. Thats not to say this doesn't happen in affiliated universities, but it is I think the chances of getting put on busy work increases because they can afford to do so. Obviously, the disadvantage could be that the professors are more foreing to working with undergrads. For two, many of these labs are much more biomedical and/or translational; that is a G-spot for adcoms when you start talking about your translational research.

Doing research that was actually affiliated with my undergrad was such a pain; too many useless hoops and rules. I feel the same way about the summer programs... rigged in such a way to give a pre-med 3 months of "experience". In and out.

Of course, that is all opinion.

But do realize that pre-MD/PhDs are the gunners of the gunners. Being at a CC could hinder you. Why not go straight to University?

sorry going off the track..I am just wondering if research for 1 year plus 1 summer is good enough for MD only applicant????

 

[armybound]

sorry going off the track..I am just wondering if research for 1 year plus 1 summer is good enough for MD only applicant????

that will be more than most people, so yes.

 

[orrghead16]

sorry going off the track..I am just wondering if research for 1 year plus 1 summer is good enough for MD only applicant????

If you are aiming for a quantity of research experience to get you into med school, you have already missed the point. Do research if you want, you don't really need it to get into medical school. Do it to try it out, if you hate it then stop after a few months. If you love it, do it all through undergrad. It can't be emphasized enough that medical schools are not specifically looking for how long you have done research. Rather, it is your dedication, ability to talk about your stuff, etc.

 

[armybound]

If you are aiming for a quantity of research experience to get you into med school, you have already missed the point. Do research if you want, you don't really need it to get into medical school. Do it to try it out, if you hate it then stop after a few months. If you love it, do it all through undergrad. It can't be emphasized enough that medical schools are not specifically looking for how long you have done research. Rather, it is your dedication, ability to talk about your stuff, etc.

This is true of any EC, not just research. What did you learn by volunteering? Why did you shadow the doctor that you did? Why was your experience in ____ club useful?

 

[URHere]

A couple of things:

1) Until you have worked in research for awhile and taken on independent projects, you have no realistic way of knowing whether or not an MD/PhD program would be right for you. Don't live your life with that as a primary goal. Live your college years by doing things that you enjoy, not things that will get you to some endpoint that you may not even ultimately want.

2) If you want to research, this is what I suggest: First, get through a year or two at a community college. Most people here will suggest not taking too many prereqs at community college, but until you take some basic science courses you aren't going to be very attractive to potential labs. Later, once you have taken at least a year of college biology/chemistry/physics depending on your interests, look online and find profiles of researchers in your area. Send emails to those doing research that interests you and ask if you can arrange an appointment with them. Hopefully, you will find someone willing to take on a student, even if it is without pay. Work for them. Ask questions, and be responsible enough to understand the research and work independently. Eventually, start your own projects (ones that you design, carry out, analyze, and write up). If you haven't done that by the time you graduate, either enter a research-heavy MS program or find a job as a research assistant. Once you have seen a project through start to finish (and it should be your own project, that's important) - then you should apply to MD/PhD programs.

 

[xnfs93hy]

What would be a target GPA range to stay in?

 

[yanorglu]

I'd say about 4.0

>_>

 

[orrghead16]

What would be a target GPA range to stay in?

Average at most MSTPs is ~3.90 and ~36. No jokes that it is competition against mad gunners.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Average at most MSTPs is ~3.90 and ~36. No jokes that it is competition against mad gunners.

Wow, that's nuts.

Thanks though. 👍

 

[URHere]

Average at most MSTPs is ~3.90 and ~36. No jokes that it is competition against mad gunners.

You can definitely get in with less than a 3.9 and a 36.

The most important factor BY FAR is the depth of your research experience. If you don't have that, even a 4.0 and a 45 won't get you in. If you do, you have a shot with lower stats. As for GPA, I know a number of MD/PhD students who got in with GPAs in the 3.5-3.7 range. MCAT however...you will be questioned heavily if you end up with a 35 or less...I know I was. If you want more specifics, check out the physician scientist forum. There is a sticky at the top that addresses questions just like this one.

 

[orrghead16]

You can definitely get in with less than a 3.9 and a 36.

The most important factor BY FAR is the depth of your research experience. If you don't have that, even a 4.0 and a 45 won't get you in. If you do, you have a shot with lower stats. As for GPA, I know a number of MD/PhD students who got in with GPAs in the 3.5-3.7 range. MCAT however...you will be questioned heavily if you end up with a 35 or less...I know I was. If you want more specifics, check out the physician scientist forum. There is a sticky at the top that addresses questions just like this one.

No kidding; I know I will be leaning heavy on my research this cycle to pull me through some areas where I am below avg, like my MCAT.

How did they question our MCAT? Did you hear a lot about it at your interviews? That is one thing I am kind of nervous about coming up...

 

[JJMrK]

I plan on attending a CC for a year or two before transferring and I was just wondering how I should go about getting into research.

Is it possible?

If so, how can I seek a research opportunity.

I plan on applying MD/P.hD. So, I don't know. Should I wait until I get to uni or what?

Do you have any local teaching hospitals nearby? If so, you may be able to volunteer on a project. If not, you'll probably have to wait until you transfer.

 

[taylormade2006]

So basically if you are not in a paid position (research assistant) and you are not a current student, you are on your own?

So I shouldn't just call up a professor and say "Hey, we have similar interests, are there any studies you'd like a hand with?"

 

[URHere]

How did they question our MCAT? Did you hear a lot about it at your interviews? That is one thing I am kind of nervous about coming up...

I interviewed at 5 of my schools...3 of them asked me why my MCAT wasn't higher. At one school, at least 3 of my interviewers grilled me about this...only one interviewer was so preoccupied by this that it lasted more than 20 minutes.

Basically, everyone at those 3 schools said "your MCAT score is low for our program, and it is going to hurt your application". It sucked at the time, but I got in, so it's all good in retrospect.

 

[orrghead16]

So basically if you are not in a paid position (research assistant) and you are not a current student, you are on your own?

So I shouldn't just call up a professor and say "Hey, we have similar interests, are there any studies you'd like a hand with?"

IMO, you are on your own anyway, even as a current student. The best labs *usually don't have an extreme need to go searching for more inexperienced undergrads.

Trying to stick a foot in the door never hurts. Go for proactive.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I know I asked this a day ago but will PhD programs look at me equally if I am at a CC but go after outside opportunities, like a research position at a teaching hospital or something. Or will those already at a regular four year school automatically have a leg up?

Also, for schools like Stanford and Columbia University for MD/PhD, what kind of credentials would and MD/PhD applicant need to have a shot? Realistically, would someone who started at a CC and also started research thing, have a shot?

I just don't want to be totally screwed after putting in all this work.

 

[JJMrK]

I know I asked this a day ago but will PhD programs look at me equally if I am at a CC but go after outside opportunities, like a research position at a teaching hospital or something. Or will those already at a regular four year school automatically have a leg up?

Also, for schools like Stanford and Columbia University for MD/PhD, what kind of credentials would and MD/PhD applicant need to have a shot? Realistically, would someone who started at a CC and also started research thing, have a shot?

I just don't want to be totally screwed after putting in all this work.

To be honest, I don't really know. But my guess is that if you can get something published, starting out at a CC won't matter (provided that the school you're talking about takes CC credits).

 

[sully677]

Also, for schools like Stanford and Columbia University for MD/PhD, what kind of credentials would and MD/PhD applicant need to have a shot? Realistically, would someone who started at a CC and also started research thing, have a shot?

Research wise, over 2 years of lab research with one PI. They want consistent research from the apps. And I'm sure the MCAT,GPA, and other things have to be stellar as well.

 

[xnfs93hy]

How many publications would the top schools (I mentioned Columbia and Stanford) want from an applicant?

What actually is a publication?

What else would they be looking for besides a publication and two years with one PI?

 

[sully677]

How many publications would the top schools (I mentioned Columbia and Stanford) want from an applicant?

What actually is a publication?

What else would they be looking for besides a publication and two years with one PI?

You should search the school websites that you are interested in first off. You have a long way to go to get into MD/PhD school if you aren't sure of what a pub is. A publication is not necessary to get into these programs, but they certainly help a lot. A publication is a article on scientific research of some short. They can be long, short, interesting and boring. They are published in scientific journals. These schools want people who are dedicated to what they love. They will be able to pick out the students that are just try to meet all the requirements to get in. They want someone with passion for medicine and science.

And don't be set on one or two schools. If you are interested in a career in research, you would want to attend a school that is strong in your research interest, not just the school with the big name.

 

[schrizto]

LOL you don't know what a pub is and you want to do MD/PhD? Have you even LOOKED through a real scientific journal? I don't really know if you understand what a career as a physician-scientist entails.

 

[xnfs93hy]

LOL you don't know what a pub is and you want to do MD/PhD? Have you even LOOKED through a real scientific journal? I don't really know if you understand what a career as a physician-scientist entails.

Yeah. That's why I'm asking these questions. And no I haven't looked through a scientific journal.

All I'm saying is that I am interested in doing research of my own. I'm trying to figure out the whole process and what everything is.

I don't really know much of what a career as a physician-scientist entails.

Maybe you can tell me? And quit being a smart***.

 

[CoolWhipp]

From your questions, I suggest shadowing a physician scientist before committing to sole path.

 

[sully677]

Maybe you can tell me? And quit being a smart***.

Well don't make comments that are ridiculous. You want to have a research career and you don't know what a pub is? How do you know you want to do research when you haven't even read a scientific journal? That's pretty much a huge portion of a PI is to read articles!

 

[xnfs93hy]

What should I be reading then?

Nature? Science? PNAS?

Is that where I will be publishing stuff in UG?

 

[CielloStelatto]

unlikely.
here's what you do. first, figure out what type of research you want to do (like the broad area, etc). then go to google to read some more, and then go to pubmed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/) and pick a few articles to read. read them. understand them. the articles you read are publications. see if you enjoy reading them, and practice because it's an acquired skill. ...

then do well in school. next, find some lab to do research in. you will not be doing your "own" research until you prove your worth in someone else's lab. likely you won't do your "own" research until you do a thesis, get to know some other PI really well, or until you're in grad school.

in the spare time, google and read things about physician-scientists and md/phd programs.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I know it seems like one, but Texas A&M is not a community college.

And for what its worth, there are a few undergrads on my research project at Emory. They won't get published for their work, but it opens the door for other opportunities, should they want them.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I know it seems like one, but Texas A&M is not a community college.

And for what its worth, there are a few undergrads on my research project at Emory. They won't get published for their work, but it opens the door for other opportunities, should they want them.

I knew that...

 

[URHere]

What should I be reading then?

Nature? Science? PNAS?

Is that where I will be publishing stuff in UG?

No offense, but at this stage of the game, you would probably understand very little of what you would read in a scientific journal. You need to understand the basics of the sciences before you can understand the techniques used to test them.

You obviously don't know much about the MD/PhD path, so I would suggest that you take your sights off of that as a career choice for the time being. Working towards your future should not be a checklist of things you need to do in a certain order. Go to college, find out what you enjoy studying, and play it by ear from there. If you find that you love science, you will probably end up in a research lab naturally and from there you will learn techniques and begin to understand what scientific articles are talking about. Don't force those things. It really won't do you any good, and you'll probably just annoy people along the way by assuming that you are right for their field when you know nothing about it. Come back and ask questions when you need to know specific things - don't ask for a roadmap to a career that is foreign to you.

In the meanwhile, go to the MD/PhD forum and poke around there. Most people in pre-allo know very little about MD/PhD programs to begin with so asking your questions here may not be very helpful.

 

[schrizto]

I know it seems like one, but Texas A&M is not a community college.

In case you were serious, he likes to put schools he's not associated with in his avatar. It was Texas A&M, and now it's Rice. 😛

What the OP should do is shadow an MD/PhD, read some science articles, see some research being done, and find out if he really likes it. Going MD/PhD is a long and hard road and you'll get paid less in the long run than a specialist MD, so you have to really love research to do it.

 

[xnfs93hy]

In case you were serious, he likes to put schools he's not associated with in his avatar. It was Texas A&M, and now it's Rice. 😛

What the OP should do is shadow an MD/PhD, read some science articles, see some research being done, and find out if he really likes it. Going MD/PhD is a long and hard road and you'll get paid less in the long run than a specialist MD, so you have to really love research to do it.

I put schools I like in my avatar...is there a problem?

And I will look into shadowing an MD/PhD. I know of one I can call off the top of my head I used to see. I think he is a Neurologist.

 

[exoslimjim]

research is not based on publications and has never been that way. In the field of engineering, most cited material come from talks or conferences. but publications are required for grants so unless you're a pi, dont worry so much about it. Very few UGs publish in those higher tier journals. doesnt mean it is impossible, but most researchers would not even dream of submitting there. nat, science or pnas are good reads because they are to be of general interest, but chances are that they are still a little technical and won't interest you. The best idea is to find a lab, stay for at least 6 months, dedicate yourself to their work, and keep an open mind.

i think for the level of schools you're looking at, you need to focus on ur numbers first. no amount of research can get you into a MD school or MD/PhD program alone.

i can't help but wonder how many of those that replied have funded, designed, or written accepeted material? A PI spends the most time thinking and drafting, the general rule is everyone including UGs should be reading. also, pubmed is a database, not a search engine. use google to find articles.

 

[URHere]

i can't help but wonder how many of those that replied have funded, designed, or written accepeted material? A PI spends the most time thinking and drafting, the general rule is everyone including UGs should be reading. also, pubmed is a database, not a search engine. use google to find articles.

First of all, I agree with you that research shouldn't be all about hunting for publications. However, I want to point out that the PI should NEVER be solely responsible for thinking up experiments, analyzing the data, and writing it up. In fact, in most labs, the graduate students and postdocs actually know more about their topics than the PI does. They are the ones responsible for deciding how to pursue their project - the PI just supervises to make sure they stay within their budget and timeframe.

As for searching for papers - I assume you are talking about google scholar? It is a good resource, but I would still suggest PubMed. If you go to a campus library and use PubMed, you can find full text on many articles google wouldn't have available. It's also a better monitored database, so you are less likely to come up with retracted articles, rejected articles, and the like. Ovid Medline is also a good choice when hunting for articles, and it is my personal favorite.

 

[exoslimjim]

grad students are still taught, especially the first couple years. Very few grad students can actually start up on their own. postdocs are much different because they are hired for their expertise, so i definitely agree there. But PI is a unique role because they are the purported authors of the grants and their proposals guide the research done in the lab.

i meant google not google scholars. u can access articles directly thru the publisher with the links that come up on google search. many nih papers are still not up yet on pubmed, and i think many nih funded researchers still ignore that rule. i only suggested google over pubmed for anyone looking up a field they may be interested in.

 

[CielloStelatto]

i can't help but wonder how many of those that replied have funded, designed, or written accepeted material? A PI spends the most time thinking and drafting, the general rule is everyone including UGs should be reading. also, pubmed is a database, not a search engine. use google to find articles.

..just for the sake of argument, and because i like finding exceptions (although I don't know why i'm arguing or really what i'm arguing against..)...

i don't get your point there. I've funded and designed experiments, and am writing one up right now.

 

[orrghead16]

i don't get your point there. I've funded and designed experiments, and am writing one up right now.

Just a standard pre-med/SDN swipe. The key is to know thyself, not what a bunch of random posters are actually up to, so I wasn't too worried.

And if it isn't the norm to think on your own in lab, so be it; its not my case and I doubt it is for everyone. IMO, the best PIs let you think and fail completely by yourself, help where needed. No other way to train scientists.

 

[sully677]

IMO, the best PIs let you think and fail completely by yourself, help where needed. No other way to train scientists.

👍
I agree. Failure is one of the best tools to achieve success. Holding a student's hand will only get them so far.