Research Questions

[OMSWeebHours]

Hello, I'm curious about how research is carried out in medical school and how helpful it is to apply to a residency program. To be honest I am not thrilled with the prospect of research on top of medical school classes, but I'd at least like to know how people pull it off.

I read that supposedly successful Derm applicants have around 20 publications, and I wonder how that is even possible since some labs may not even produce one. I didn't do any in undergrad and I probably will not be going into Derm, but that's just the most extreme example off the top of my head.

I've heard it is easier to get published in clinical research, so I'm presuming students just join an existing project?

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[GoSpursGo]

Yes, in general people join a group that publishes a lot of clinical papers. Initially you may be given a small part of a project to push forward, but eventually you'd be expected to drive at least one or two projects forward as first author.

It takes a lot of time management and there are a lot of people who manage to fail academically because they wasted time chasing publications rather than making sure they pass their classes. So if you aren't gunning for a competitive specialty, and you aren't excited about doing research, then don't.

 

[OMSWeebHours]

Yes, in general people join a group that publishes a lot of clinical papers. Initially you may be given a small part of a project to push forward, but eventually you'd be expected to drive at least one or two projects forward as first author.

It takes a lot of time management and there are a lot of people who manage to fail academically because they wasted time chasing publications rather than making sure they pass their classes. So if you aren't gunning for a competitive specialty, and you aren't excited about doing research, then don't.

Makes sense. But I was concerned about the DO disadvantage. Psych and PM&R are some of my top choices and they seem to not be that competitive supposedly, but the 2022 match statistics table I saw on here suggested even FM students were doing 4+ pubs, which confused me

 

[GoSpursGo]

Makes sense. But I was concerned about the DO disadvantage. Psych and PM&R are some of my top choices and they seem to not be that competitive supposedly, but the 2022 match statistics table I saw on here suggested even FM students were doing 4+ pubs, which confused me

Yes DOs are at a disadvantage, and psych has become increasingly competitive so if that is your goal then you likely would need to be involved in some research. Less sure about PM&R.

Not sure where you got that information on FM students, but that's just not true. Here is the 2022 charting outcome chart for DO seniors going into FM, people were very successful regardless of pubs and most had zero

 

[Kardio]

Note that ERAS throws abstracts, presentations, and publications into the same bin.

You are probably thinking of basic science research - which is very time consuming to complete and publish compared to what most med students do (posters and pubs from case reports or research that can be done with a laptop alone, survey/assessments, even seen editorials in academic journals get a citation).

Numbers from undergrad or prior graduate school experience also count towards the total number.

 

[OMSWeebHours]

Note that ERAS throws abstracts, presentations, and publications into the same bin.

You are probably thinking of basic science research - which is very time consuming to complete and publish compared to what most med students do (posters and pubs from case reports or research that can be done with a laptop alone, survey/assessments, even seen editorials in academic journals get a citation).

Numbers from undergrad or prior graduate school experience also count towards the total number.

Yeah, I was thinking of academic research. I knew some people working years to get 1 pub so that seemed pretty intense to balance with medical school. I have been recently thinking of trying to make some basic psych assessments/surveys, but I'm presuming I need to have a PI or a professor/clinician to oversee it?

Not sure who I would contact, at least until school starts, because I'm on a LoA right now lol. And even if I go back, would I need to know a specialist in the field?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Yeah, I was thinking of academic research. I knew some people working years to get 1 pub so that seemed pretty intense to balance with medical school. I have been recently thinking of trying to make some basic psych assessments/surveys, but I'm presuming I need to have a PI or a professor/clinician to oversee it?

Yes, you need to work with a PI

Not sure who I would contact, at least until school starts, because I'm on a LoA right now lol. And even if I go back, would I need to know a specialist in the field?

Many times you can find a mentor through specialty interest groups through your school.

There is nothing wrong with making sure you land on your feet academically once you return from your LOA, and worry about research later.

 

[OMSWeebHours]

Yes, you need to work with a PI

Many times you can find a mentor through specialty interest groups through your school.

There is nothing wrong with making sure you land on your feet academically once you return from your LOA, and worry about research later.

Thanks for the advice, that clarifies things well.

I do have one additional question, does a PI always have to be met in person, or is it possible to work from a distance depending on the specific task(s) of each contributor?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thanks for the advice, that clarifies things well.

I do have one additional question, does a PI always have to be met in person, or is it possible to work from a distance depending on the specific task(s) of each contributor?

Depends on the work and the PI

 

[Goro]

Hello, I'm curious about how research is carried out in medical school and how helpful it is to apply to a residency program. To be honest I am not thrilled with the prospect of research on top of medical school classes, but I'd at least like to know how people pull it off.

I read that supposedly successful Derm applicants have around 20 publications, and I wonder how that is even possible since some labs may not even produce one. I didn't do any in undergrad and I probably will not be going into Derm, but that's just the most extreme example off the top of my head.

I've heard it is easier to get published in clinical research, so I'm presuming students just join an existing project?

The best time to do research, especially bench research, is in the summer between M1 and M2.

Clinical research you can do in M3 and 4.

Like anything else in medical school, it takes good time mgt skills. You can do a lot of studying waiting for a PAGE gel to run.

 

[OMSWeebHours]

Yes DOs are at a disadvantage, and psych has become increasingly competitive so if that is your goal then you likely would need to be involved in some research. Less sure about PM&R.

Not sure where you got that information on FM students, but that's just not true. Here is the 2022 charting outcome chart for DO seniors going into FM, people were very successful regardless of pubs and most had zero

View attachment 384690

Is there a chart for Psych or PM&R like this at NRMP?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Is there a chart for Psych or PM&R like this at NRMP?

Yes. Google "NRMP charting outcomes"

 

[pigsinacloth]

Is there a chart for Psych or PM&R like this at NRMP?

You can find it the 2022 charting outcomes document. linked here https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Charting_Outcomes_DO_Seniors_2022_Final-Updated.pdf

I don't remember if they update it every 2 years or what, but honestly I think for PMR and psych the data is outdated in terms of scores and research, just based on talking to my classmates who are interested in those specialties. I have no actual data to back it up just my own personal anecdote.

 

[kirtar]

You can find it the 2022 charting outcomes document. linked here https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Charting_Outcomes_DO_Seniors_2022_Final-Updated.pdf

I don't remember if they update it every 2 years or what, but honestly I think for PMR and psych the data is outdated in terms of scores and research, just based on talking to my classmates who are interested in those specialties. I have no actual data to back it up just my own personal anecdote.

Yes it's every other year so we should get it for 2024 at some point.

 

[OMSWeebHours]

You can find it the 2022 charting outcomes document. linked here https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Charting_Outcomes_DO_Seniors_2022_Final-Updated.pdf

I don't remember if they update it every 2 years or what, but honestly I think for PMR and psych the data is outdated in terms of scores and research, just based on talking to my classmates who are interested in those specialties. I have no actual data to back it up just my own personal anecdote.

PM&R seems tricky to get into without research, but these Psych results are puzzling. Seems the ones with no research have about the same chance. At least that gives me some peace of mind for now. I'd probably end up doing some kind of related brief clinical research if I get invested in them. Don't think I would survive IM for 3 years lol