Research vs. Volunteering vs. Clinical Experience

[impulse462]

Hello all,

I've been reading this site on and off during my high school years and I'm really appreciative to all the members who contribute to helping other people get into medical school. I'm going to be a sophomore at the University of Miami and I've already started to become a little stressed about this whole medical school thing.

I had a few questions on basically everything (lol). A really good friend of mine at Johns Hopkins told me for the top medical schools that lab research is probably the most important extracurricular activity, then comes clinical experience, then volunteering. After researching some forums, I have yet to find a definitive answer to this question. Personally, it would seem that clinical experience is the most important, with lab research "coming in 2nd" and then volunteering. I ask this because I plan on doing lab research during this summer at a hospital near my house and I also plan on doing research at Miamis medical school but to be quite honest, I used to go to the hospital with my parents when I was young (they're both physicians) and I'd love seeing what my parents would do, but my question was, what will medical schools value MORE of? lab research or clinical experience?

My second question was basically about GPA. I spent my freshman year at UMass, due to immaturity during my high school years, my high school grades weren't near my potential. That part of my life, however, is behind me and I am focused toward my future career goals. After taking Bio, Chem, English, and Calc I and II, my gpa was a 3.67 for the 1st semester and depending on my bio grade my overall first year gpa will either be a 3.71 or 3.74. I ended up with a B- in my bio class for the first semester.

This class isn't curved (none of them are for that matter) and the average was either a C- or a D+ and not only that (this may seem weird), but my teacher basically thought that he was the reincarnation of Charles Darwin. We spent maybe 4 weeks on biochemistry and photosynthesis/krebs cycle in September. I understand that evolution/ecology is covered in the curriculum for general biology but from October till now, all we've done is evolution. Unfortunately, the highest grade I can get in the second semester is a B+. My question is if I take higher level biochemistry and molecular/cell biology courses and get As in them, will that *sort of* alleviate this B I received in general biology? Will top medical schools (Harvard, Stanford, Duke, etc.) be lenient on this issue, or have I already blown it? Do these medical schools *care* about the prestige of applicants undergraduate institutions?

In addition to being interested in medicine, throughout my life I've been interested in technology and business. I've hacked/unlocked iPhones, done Google coding projects etc. A friend of mine and I also have business ideas we are working out for a startup. However, my main concentration is medicine. As you might be able to guess, my dream school is Stanford due to many reasons. Putting its reputation aside, I've visited the campus (a while ago), and its amazing. It's location, however, is unparalled. Being in the heart of Silicon Valley, I can not think of a more appropriate place for me to study medicine and business.

Which leads me to my next question. I do plan on doing an MD/MBA from a school that I get into. What is the most appropriate way to pursue this dual degree? Using Stanford as an example, do people usually apply to both the medical and business schools at the same time? I plan on taking the MCAT at the end of my junior year...this really wont leave me anytime to adequately prepare for the GMAT. I did read that students can apply in their second year to the business school as well.

Thank you for reading my longass post, and any feedback is very much appreciated.

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[CaliGirl14]

From my understanding, clinical experience is practically a must. Research is amazing if you have it, but not a deal breaker if you don't. Top medical schools are heavily research oriented, and they do have a tendency to favor applicants who have it.

You haven't blown it. They look at your cumulative science GPA, so taking upper-division courses in science can be beneficial in 'balancing' out your grade. I wouldn't even sweat it if I were you.

Yes, Silicon Valley is amazing

I don't know much about MD/MBA programs, so I'll leave it up to SDN to hopefully fill you in.

Hope I helped.

 

[JJMrK]

1) Clinical experience is probably the most important EC in the sense that you absolutely must have some to get in. Research is important too. My advice is look for a lab that will: a) put your name on a publication b) let you do more than wash glassware, and c) pay you. Whatever you do, try to find something you like and stick with it for a year or two. When I read applications, lack of continuity in activities is something I wonder about.

2) B's are OK. To have a competitive application you'll need more A's than B's, but nobody has a 1:0 ratio.

3) This is probably something to worry about later. Many, many med schools have combined MD/MBA programs. Most of the time you apply sometime during your second or third year and complete your coursework either between MS2 and MS3 or MS3 and MS4.

 

[Tsukiyo]

I've often heard that some schools are more focused on research, and that if you do research they might consider you more? But that's the opinion about my uni. (It has a medical school and they are research-heavy.)

 

[impulse462]

Nice, thanks for the replies I appreciate it.

So...what exactly counts as clinical experience? Does shadowing a doctor count? For example, does sitting in the same room with a doctor while they examine a patient count? What about going to the ICU? (if that's even allowed) Is emphasis put on dealing with patients?

Also, around what number does the effect of your GPA start to level off? Like at what point does your MCAT start to carry more weight in relation to your GPA? 3.7-3.75? 3.75-3.8?

 

[NickNaylor]

Nice, thanks for the replies I appreciate it.

So...what exactly counts as clinical experience? Does shadowing a doctor count? For example, does sitting in the same room with a doctor while they examine a patient count? What about going to the ICU? (if that's even allowed) Is emphasis put on dealing with patients?

Also, around what number does the effect of your GPA start to level off? Like at what point does your MCAT start to carry more weight in relation to your GPA? 3.7-3.75? 3.75-3.8?

The phrase on the forum is "if you can smell patients, it's clinical experience." The emphasis is more on understanding what a physician does on a regular basis. Entering medicine is a serious commitment, and schools are going to expect you to know what the entails. That said, patient interaction is also important - nursing home work can also be counted as clinical experience depending on what you do.

With respect to your second question, this table will help you sort that out: https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

 

[LizzyM]

above 3.89, the higher the gpa doesn't make much of a differnece.

Clinical experience where you are close enough to "smell patients" (i.e. not the gift shop) is essential for admission to any school.

The vast majority (>75%) of successful applicants to the top schools have research experience. The best is a year or more culminating in a publication. A year of research after college is one alternative. An undergrad thesis or presentation at a national or regional meeting (not a school-specific presentation) is a plus.

Service to others is part of medicine (some will call bullsh*t but you wil be asked to sacrifice what would otherwise be your free time to help in an emergency or to inconvenience yourself to provide more convenient service to a patient). Willing service to those in need (either medical or non-medical) over several years through one agency or among different organizations is evidence of a person with a heart for service. When we try to whittle down the mountain of applications down to a reasonable number for interview, it sometimes comes down to service and leadership (leading others in service activities).