research

[luke123]

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I was wondering if it was possible to get a decent paying job as a researcher with a pharmd, or do you need the phd after your name?

 

[Priapism321]

I was wondering if it was possible to get a decent paying job as a researcher with a pharmd, or do you need the phd after your name?

These guys didn't feel the need to get a PhD, and probably have more extensive Pubmed records than 95% of PhD's and MD's combined......Just sayin'

http://ccr.cancer.gov/staff/publications.asp?profileid=5728&display=all

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/inde...nnel=7cc71436e3218010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD

Though you probably do not care about the actual quality of the research, you are just asking about money, like most turkeys on these forums.

 

[tungsten87]

These guys didn't feel the need to get a PhD, and probably have more extensive Pubmed records than 95% of PhD's and MD's combined......Just sayin'

http://ccr.cancer.gov/staff/publications.asp?profileid=5728&display=all

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/inde...nnel=7cc71436e3218010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD

Though you probably do not care about the actual quality of the research, you are just asking about money, like most turkeys on these forums.

good ol' bill evans.

 

[minette]

I was wondering if it was possible to get a decent paying job as a researcher with a pharmd, or do you need the phd after your name?

you will probably need a phD or at least a fellowship even for clinical research...

 

[patmcd]

You'll certainly want to consider a fellowship post pharmd to be a full time researcher.

 

[PharMed2016]

I was wondering if it was possible to get a decent paying job as a researcher with a pharmd, or do you need the phd after your name?

You can definitely do research after you graduate with your PharmD. My old research preceptor in undergrad was a PharmD that did a lot of clinical research for major drug companies and organizations. He told me that he was getting paid as much as some specialist doctors without working nearly as much as them. However, I sure there aren't that many positions like that open but if you want to do something like that - then a fellowship is your best bet. In addition to doing research, if you are acknowledge as a specialist in that particular field - you can even do some consulting for organizations which pays very well from what I've been told by the fellow (PharmD) that worked under my preceptor.

 

[Pharmcdc]

Just graduated in May '10 and one of my classmates just got hired at the VA Hospital as a full time researcher. So, it is not impossible with a PharmD and no post-doc work or residency.

 

[p-rog]

Just graduated in May '10 and one of my classmates just got hired at the VA Hospital as a full time researcher. So, it is not impossible with a PharmD and no post-doc work or residency.

Man, that's pretty sweet. Care to elaborate on the type of research? Do they have literally zero dispensing/counseling duties?

 

[Pharmcdc]

Man, that's pretty sweet. Care to elaborate on the type of research? Do they have literally zero dispensing/counseling duties?

I cant elaborate on what she does. She is going through orientation now. She literally just started last week. Had to wait until her license was complete. I interned there for a while back in school and got to spend a little time with the research pharmacist, literally the only time she set foot in the in-patient or outpatient pharmacy is if she needed something, or if she needed to compound something. Then she was doing a trial with some cocaine addicts. It was completely research, so I assume that my classmates position is too. They didn't even have any staff positions open when she was hired. I think there are a couple now. My wife is an MSN there and Im friends with the assistant director, he told her to tell me to give him a call if I was unhappy with my job. lol. Hope this helps, thats ALL I know about it. You should check with the VA close to you and see if they have a research pharmacist there, thats what I would do if I was interested.

 

[Pharmcdc]

Man, that's pretty sweet. Care to elaborate on the type of research? Do they have literally zero dispensing/counseling duties?

Since you are still a student, try to get a rotation with one if its not too late for you.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

Do you already have the PharmD? What kind of research do you want to do?

I don't think personally I'd go through the PharmD primarily to do research, but that's just me. Academic research in general doesn't pay a lot, and I'd rather not have all the loans of a PharmD if I were planning to stay in academic research. Industry, from what I understands, pays more, but the jobs can be volatile. Every other day it seems like some company's being bought or going under.

PharmD/PhD programs may pay some of the costs of the PharmD, and I'm pretty sure they cover all of the PhD parts, including a stipend...

 

[p-rog]

Since you are still a student, try to get a rotation with one if its not too late for you.

I was able to get a research rotation so hopefully it will work itself out. Thanks for the info.

 

[Quiksilver]

Currently researching away on my own project at this very minute. My preceptor don't only conducts clinical trials in house but also multicenter clinical trials involving phase III studies. The opportunities are there, you need to create your niche and know where to go to get it done.

 

[p-rog]

Currently researching away on my own project at this very minute. My preceptor don't only conducts clinical trials in house but also multicenter clinical trials involving phase III studies. The opportunities are there, you need to create your niche and know where to go to get it done.

Cool. this is an industry rotation?

 

[Quiksilver]

Cool. this is an industry rotation?

No this practice is attached to an outpatient medical group. You would be surprised what you can do if you just prove your worth. You can make your own career. Universities and schools of pharmacy eat this **** up.

 

[p-rog]

No this practice is attached to an outpatient medical group. You would be surprised what you can do if you just prove your worth. You can make your own career. Universities and schools of pharmacy eat this **** up.

No i'm not surpirsed at all. I was just a little confused by how you worded "conducts multicenter phase III studies". But so, the "in house" studies, is the pharmacist actually designing the trial protocol and everything or are they more just conducting it and helping with the MD with the monitoring and reporting?

 

[Quiksilver]

No i'm not surpirsed at all. I was just a little confused by how you worded "conducts multicenter phase III studies". But so, the "in house" studies, is the pharmacist actually designing the trial protocol and everything or are they more just conducting it and helping with the MD with the monitoring and reporting?

Multicenter trials are phase III trials for drugs looking to come to the market, they are called multicenter because the drug companies need multiple sites to get a sufficient sample size in order to prove efficacy.

Here at this site, pharmacists are designing and conducting the studies, they do things from the ground up. The MD do not contribute much.

 

[p-rog]

Multicenter trials are phase III trials for drugs looking to come to the market, they are called multicenter because the drug companies need multiple sites to get a sufficient sample size in order to prove efficacy.

Dude, I know.🙂 But obviously the pharmacist wouldn't be designing the protocol for these studies. The pharma company or CRO would be doing that. That's where I was getting confused.

Here at this site, pharmacists are designing and conducting the studies, they do things from the ground up. The MD do not contribute much.

That is pretty cool. If I don't end up in industry, I hope to be in a similar situation career-wise one day.

So, I'm curious. what training does this pharmacist have?

 

[Quiksilver]

Dude, I know.🙂 But obviously the pharmacist wouldn't be designing the protocol for these studies. The pharma company or CRO would be doing that. That's where I was getting confused.



That is pretty cool. If I don't end up in industry, I hope to be in a similar situation career-wise one day.

So, I'm curious. what training does this pharmacist have?

My Bad. Yes for the multicenter the protocol is not designed by the pharmacist.

Inside studies are designed by the pharmacist. Sorry for my lack of understanding.

My preceptor has a PharmD and earned it "when it still meant something." He also completed a fellowship in Pharmacokinetics.

 

[p-rog]

Sorry for my lack of understanding.

It's cool 🙂

He also completed a fellowship in Pharmacokinetics.

The one at SUNY Buffalo?

 

[Praziquantel86]

My preceptor has a PharmD and earned it "when it still meant something." He also completed a fellowship in Pharmacokinetics.

They have fellowships in aspirin?

🙂

 

[Quiksilver]

It's cool 🙂

The one at SUNY Buffalo?

The Novartis fellowship is relatively new so no. But if PK is your passion, then I do recommend it. It is really competitive and I am told that us UB students have not had a lot of interest in doing it either, which is kind of unfortunate from the school's POV or so I am told.

The Novartis Fellowship is really a good idea if you like research.

They have fellowships in aspirin?

🙂

and if you only knew my results so far.... They are very interesting.

 

[Praziquantel86]

and if you only knew my results so far.... They are very interesting.

I don't doubt it, my friend.

 

[Quiksilver]

I don't doubt it, my friend.

At least there is a niche as a Plavix guru open.

 

[p-rog]

The Novartis Fellowship is really a good idea if you like research.

yeah I've heard good things about it. I am a GA boy though. I don't know if I can handle the weather up there.

 

[tungsten87]

how would the opportunities differ for a pharmd + fellowship vs a pharmd + phd (in med chem, pharmaceutics, clinical pharmaceutics). i would think what fellowship you choose has a major effect on your career choices since there are so many different types vs. the phd that is pretty much standardized.

 

[p-rog]

how would the opportunities differ for a pharmd + fellowship vs a pharmd + phd (in med chem, pharmaceutics, clinical pharmaceutics). i would think what fellowship you choose has a major effect on your career choices since there are so many different types vs. the phd that is pretty much standardized.

I'm no expert but from talking to several pharmacists and non-pharmacist (PhD's) who are/were in industry, my understanding is that to some degree a PhD coupled with a pharmD offers more in the way of opportunities for career advancement (and by that, I mean $$$$) than the pharmD + fellowship. But the biggest thing you have to understand is that a Phd (even one where you can skip coursework due to your PharmD) will take you at least 3 years if you are very motivated and and probably a little lucky, and often will take you 4-5 if you are average. Compare that with doing a 2 year fellowship and realize that you would have finished your fellowship and would now have 1-3 years FTE work experience in a pharma company by the time it would have taken you to do your PhD. Am I making sense?

I will say this also. PhD's tend to be more "experts" in their fields, which probably sounds appealing at first but I would worry about getting pigeonholed into one type of job that way. That is speculation on my part though. I do know that with a fellowship you are very versatile in terms of being able to transfer between different departments within the company (like say, from regulatory affairs--> medical communications).

Now if it's a career in academia you are interested in, hands down the PhD is what you want, no question. Multiple faculty members who went through fellowships instead of PhD's have told me again and again that they really regret that decision. It's just too hard to get grant money without those letters behind your name apparently.

 

[Praziquantel86]

how would the opportunities differ for a pharmd + fellowship vs a pharmd + phd (in med chem, pharmaceutics, clinical pharmaceutics). i would think what fellowship you choose has a major effect on your career choices since there are so many different types vs. the phd that is pretty much standardized.

I don't think there's any real answer to that. I've personally found that the PharmD/PhDs that I know of tend to work more in strictly research-focused environments, but I can't speak for anywhere outside of my school. There's certainly no reason this would have to be the case.

Keep in mind that a PhD doesn't replace a fellowship, in fact, it's probably closer to the opposite. Most PhDs end up doing some sort of a post-doctoral fellowship until they get the street-cred and knowhow to open up their own lab or research group.

 

[tungsten87]

I'm no expert but from talking to several pharmacists and non-pharmacist (PhD's) who are/were in industry, my understanding is that to some degree a PhD coupled with a pharmD offers more in the way of opportunities for career advancement (and by that, I mean $$$$) than the pharmD + fellowship. But the biggest thing you have to understand is that a Phd (even one where you can skip coursework due to your PharmD) will take you at least 3 years if you are very motivated and and probably a little lucky, and often will take you 4-5 if you are average. Compare that with doing a 2 year fellowship and realize that you would have finished your fellowship and would now have 1-3 years FTE work experience in a pharma company by the time it would have taken you to do your PhD. Am I making sense?

I will say this also. PhD's tend to be more "experts" in their fields, which probably sounds appealing at first but I would worry about getting pigeonholed into one type of job that way. That is speculation on my part though. I do know that with a fellowship you are very versatile in terms of being able to transfer between different departments within the company (like say, from regulatory affairs--> medical communications).

Now if it's a career in academia you are interested in, hands down the PhD is what you want, no question. Multiple faculty members who went through fellowships instead of PhD's have told me again and again that they really regret that decision. It's just too hard to get grant money without those letters behind your name apparently.

a good amount of fellowships require a 1 year residency. for someone who has research experience and some dedication i think it is definitely possible to get the phd in three years. the time is no concern IMO since it will be 1 and maybe 2 years lost in a worst case scenario.

i almost feel like a phd could be detrimental in a way and i'll try to explain as best as possible. with a fellowship one is usually gaining "work" type experience tailored towards a couple different job opportunities (yes?). thus, a fellow comes out of the fellowship with experience and may be an attractive candidate for a particular job. a phd on the other hand has simply worked in a lab in an academic setting and has no true "experience". this gives me the impression that if one completes a pharmd/phd he or she will be limited to careers involving research. are these assumptions correct?

certain schools have a pharmd/phd program that is clinically oriented. for example, at my school once the students completes the pharmd program and progresses into the phd program they practice as a clinical pharmacist in one of the affiliated hospitals. what niche do these people fall into?

 

[p-rog]

a good amount of fellowships require a 1 year residency. for someone who has research experience and some dedication i think it is definitely possible to get the phd in three years. the time is no concern IMO since it will be 1 and maybe 2 years lost in a worst case scenario.

Those are the academic fellowships. Industry fellowships usually don't care at all about residencies. Again if you primarily looking at academia, then a PhD is definitely the way to go as far as bench research and funding are concerned.

i almost feel like a phd could be detrimental in a way and i'll try to explain as best as possible. with a fellowship one is usually gaining "work" type experience tailored towards a couple different job opportunities (yes?). thus, a fellow comes out of the fellowship with experience and may be an attractive candidate for a particular job. a phd on the other hand has simply worked in a lab in an academic setting and has no true "experience". this gives me the impression that if one completes a pharmd/phd he or she will be limited to careers involving research. are these assumptions correct?

I mean they are not incorrect. But remember, very few PhD's have true clinical knowledge/skills. That's where having the pharmD + PhD makes you stand out. BTW, PK/PD is a hot area in industry right now if you are really thinking about a basic science PhD.

certain schools have a pharmd/phd program that is clinically oriented. for example, at my school once the students completes the pharmd program and progresses into the phd program they practice as a clinical pharmacist in one of the affiliated hospitals. what niche do these people fall into?

Yeah these clinically oriented pharmD/PhD's are popping up and are definitely interesting. They have a similar PhD-clinical pharmacist program offered at my school as well. I don't really know what to tell you about their niche because I am wondering the same thing myself. It still feels like academia to me, but I suppose these people can either go the clinical tract route while doing outcomes type research OR they can go the tenure tract route and do lab/translational research with more of a clinical focus than your traditional tenure tract professor. In this case, you really have to check with the individual program. Set up a time to call them and ask them what they envision their graduates doing . And then after that, ask them what their past graduates are actually doing.

 

[p-rog]

Keep in mind that a PhD doesn't replace a fellowship, in fact, it's probably closer to the opposite. Most PhDs end up doing some sort of a post-doctoral fellowship until they get the street-cred and knowhow to open up their own lab or research group.

My understanding is that pharmD + PhD grads usually are able to land jobs in industry and academia without having to do any fellowship.

 

[RxMTM]

Depends what kind of research u are want to do. A pharmd limits you to certain types of research just like any other degree. Moreover, you should apply to pharmd/phd programs if this is your interest.