residencies don't really give a crap about step 2ck?

[YouDontKnowJack]

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I searched a little here, and I'm not sure if residencies give a crap about step 2ck. Do they?

I've read that a lot of programs just use step 1 scores. So that means average step 1 scorers are f*cked? 😕

How could something as useless as step 1 count for so much?

 

[Faebinder]

I searched a little here, and I'm not sure if residencies give a crap about step 2ck. Do they?

I've read that a lot of programs just use step 1 scores. So that means average step 1 scorers are f*cked? 😕

How could something as useless as step 1 count for so much?

You are wrong.... Step 2 matters.... The problem is that many delay taking it so the advantage of having a good step 2 score is blown over.

 

[Chinnychin]

I know first hand from atleast 4 PD's of various specialities including gen surg and radiology-They were not top 10 programs or anything but solid univer. programs-I had that worry when I initially wanted to do surgery that my step 1 was not high enough-220. So I asked what I could do and he said that he actually looks more favorably on a good step 2 if they have it because it shows teh culmination of what you learned in basic sciences with application of clinical skills-which I think is true. Fortunately for me I ended up not liking any of those fields and liking a non-compt field. This was lucky since despite studying pretty hard I ended up with a 219 on step 2 haha. Also he said that a drop in step 2 from step 1 was a very bad sign to him so if you have a decent step 1 or do not think you can improve than taking it is not a good idea. Good luck

 

[Green912]

Most people apply without step-II. Taking it can certainly help set you apart from the masses.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

i see. good to know.

I'll remain average for now. I like being average

 

[Coordinator]

In our Pediatric program...

Not only are you REQUIRED to complete Step II by the start of your Intern year (although you don't have to have results prior to starting); if you do not pass, it is grounds for probation. You are also required to take Step III by the midpoint of your PL2 year.

The importance of step II is that it is a fundamental step in your medical knowledge infrastructure and this demonstrates that. To be a doc you will need to be a life long learner and will need to demonstrate your fund of knowledge. Our program considers all examinations (in-training, steps, boards) all vital in not only determining YOUR knowledge, but also where we need to step up training so that you receive the most robust learning opportunities available.

Best of Luck (and go study!)

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

In our Pediatric program...

Not only are you REQUIRED to complete Step II by the start of your Intern year (although you don't have to have results prior to starting); if you do not pass, it is grounds for probation. You are also required to take Step III by the midpoint of your PL2 year.
)

That's why I started this topic. In your example, you can get minimum pass on 2ck and still start the residency. While those with minimum pass on step 1 can't even get in, even though 2ck is 10x more important and relevant in content than step 1.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

I searched a little here, and I'm not sure if residencies give a crap about step 2ck. Do they?

I've read that a lot of programs just use step 1 scores. So that means average step 1 scorers are f*cked? 😕

How could something as useless as step 1 count for so much?

A preliminary thought: Step1 is not useless. It is an objective piece of data that demonstrates a) mastery of preclinical info and b) ability to take standardized tests.

When you finish residency you have to take boards in your specialty, ANOTHER standardized test. If you do poorly on Step1, a PD will fear that you might a) fail certification boards or b) require alot of help to pass. All this crap about "well I'm not a good test taker but I'm a really cool person and a I'm going to be a great doctor" falls pretty flat if you cannot become board certified...

Residencies absolutely care about Step2ck. Some are starting to require it before you apply! It is probably less important than Step1 b/c programs need something that is common to all applicants. Not nearly everyone has taken Step2 by the time they apply.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

A preliminary thought: Step1 is not useless. It is an objective piece of data that demonstrates a) mastery of preclinical info and b) ability to take standardized tests.

When you finish residency you have to take boards in your specialty, ANOTHER standardized test. If you do poorly on Step1, a PD will fear that you might a) fail certification boards or b) require alot of help to pass. All this crap about "well I'm not a good test taker but I'm a really cool person and a I'm going to be a great doctor" falls pretty flat if you cannot become board certified...

Residencies absolutely care about Step2ck. Some are starting to require it before you apply! It is probably less important than Step1 b/c programs need something that is common to all applicants. Not nearly everyone has taken Step2 by the time they apply.

I'm not talking about nearly bombing step 1. I'm just saying that you're gonna be denied in a lot of places with just a 200 score.
While not everyone has taken 2ck by application time, it should be given a fair amount of weight if you do. If residency programs don't give it much weight just because it is not a common factor among applicants, that's pretty much 'not giving a crap' in my book.

It's good that "some" are starting to require 2ck before applying. Hopefully more will.

 

[luvOB]

i read a post on sdn awhile ago from a PD addressing this issue...basically they use step one b/c it's the thing everyone has in common, however, if step 2 is available it IS weighted more b/c it's more indicative of how good of a resident you will be and whether or not you will have trouble passing step 3. hence the advise we've all heard about when to take step 2.🙂

 

[Samir Desai]

If you look at the article written by Wagoner (Program directors' responses to a survey on variables used to select residents in a time of change - Acad Med 1999), you'll see just how important USMLE step II is to program directors in various specialties. According to this article, the following specialties ranked USMLE step II scores higher in importance than step I scores in the residency selection process:

Internal Medicine
Pediatrics
Pathology
Psychiatry
Radiation oncology
Emergency Medicine

 

[Count of Monte]

But Step 3 is more important than steps 1 and 2 combined!!!

I searched a little here, and I'm not sure if residencies give a crap about step 2ck. Do they?

I've read that a lot of programs just use step 1 scores. So that means average step 1 scorers are f*cked? 😕

How could something as useless as step 1 count for so much?

 

[NDESTRUKT]

First of all, Step 1 is not useless as said above. It is an objective judgement of how hard you worked and how much you're able to retain things that might not really be that important to you (not many people feel that memorizing the steps in apoptosis is more important than a cardiac workup). Many things in medicine will make you do things you might not "want" to do and being able to make yourself do a good job of things you have to do is important, I think.

Grades during third year are so subjective - you get along with the attending and residents, you work hard doing important things + scut, and you do well on the shelf...I mean there's a lot of subjectivity. There's no subjectivity really in step 1. Step 2 CK can be mastered by a lot of practice - it takes much more effort and time to do well on step 1 then the step 2 CK.

I've never heard someone advise me to take step 2 prior to interviews unless you think it can boost your chances if you do much better. I've also never heard of any medical school graduating their students without passing the step 2...is that true in some places?!

 

[dynx]

Again want to add a different perspective. I killed step 1, I took step 2 CK early to get it out of the way, killed it too. Its been brought up in almost every interview that they were impressed I wasn't scared to take it early and they were impressed with my score. Its not a deal maker or breaker, but PD's do notice that you were confident enough to take it, and it shows that your step 1 wasn't a fluke.

 

[mlw03]

while I have no reason to doubt Dr. Desai's data, I do find it very weird that pathology programs would care more about step II than step I. path strikes me as the one field where knowing that Crohn disease has granulomas histopathologically while ulcerative colitis has PMNs within the mucosa is more important than the "what do you do next in the w/u of IBD?" type of question often found on step II. for all the other fields listed I think it makes a lot of sense. in fact, beyond path and maybe radiology, i would think step II is more important than step I. but for path it just doesn't seem like it'd be reflective of the type of information a pathologist would need to do their job well.

If you look at the article written by Wagoner (Program directors' responses to a survey on variables used to select residents in a time of change - Acad Med 1999), you'll see just how important USMLE step II is to program directors in various specialties. According to this article, the following specialties ranked USMLE step II scores higher in importance than step I scores in the residency selection process:

Internal Medicine
Pediatrics
Pathology
Psychiatry
Radiation oncology
Emergency Medicine