Residency after 4 years Flight Surgeon

[D.O. OMM boob]

I'm going to start off saying I know there is an excellent thread on the exact procedures on exactly how and when to apply to residency while a GMO so that you can join your residency program right after you serve your time.

My question however (maybe I didn't do enough research) is exactly how hard is it getting your desired civilian residency after you serve your 4 years payback from HPSP as GMO/Flight surgeon? And for any DO's out there, have you had the chance to use OMT at all during your payback years?

I'm assuming they use the exact same criteria of GPA, board scores, how much they know you from rotations in your 4th year etc... But are you at any advantage OR disadvantage when applying for the same residency spots as current 4th year or pgy-1 med students?

Yes, I am considering HPSP for the money, Yes I do want/have the desire to serve my country and what better way than as a physician, which I've always wanted to be. Yes I know the limitations on your choice of residency, but I want to serve 4 years as FS and then pursue my residency. Yes, I've researched and looked into FAP. I've looked at and considered a lot of options, but long story short, I like change of pace, I desire to be part of the military, and what better way than to have them pay for my schooling as well as enjoy the detour in which I know the "consequences" and "benefits" about.

Regarding the actual question I asked in paragraph 2, I am looking Into being a Family Doc, Family Doc/OMM specialist and/or physiatrist (PM&R) if that makes a difference in how residency programs choose their future residents. (Really considering family doc/OMM specialist which is one of the many reasons why I want to do 4 years payback before residency). Thank you in advanced 🙂

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[DeadCactus]

Many if not most will look on it as a positive. You will have real independent practice experience and the civilian world generally has a glorified vision of what being a flight surgeon means. You'll also have a few cool stories to tell on interviews to propagate that glorifies vision.

 

[j4pac]

I'm going to start off saying I know there is an excellent thread on the exact procedures on exactly how and when to apply to residency while a GMO so that you can join your residency program right after you serve your time.

Thank you. Glad it was helpful.

My question however (maybe I didn't do enough research) is exactly how hard is it getting your desired civilian residency after you serve your 4 years payback from HPSP as GMO/Flight surgeon?

Educate yourself on the civilian match process...what is and isn't important in regards to matching. I created an advice thread on the PM&R forum that was well received about how to match into PM&R. There is lots of useful information for matching to other civilian programs as well. I would encourage looking at it, especially if you are considering PM&R, which I believe is the best training under the sun for MSK. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/pm-r-advice-to-applicants.1114792/

And for any DO's out there, have you had the chance to use OMT at all during your payback years?

I use OMT regularly and have actually become quite good at MSK during my FS tour. I'm the other DO who performs OMT in my area, so I regularly get consulted by attending (MDs and DOs alike) to see their more complex MSK stuff. I imagine that it helped me on the interview trail.

I'm assuming they use the exact same criteria of GPA, board scores, how much they know you from rotations in your 4th year etc... But are you at any advantage OR disadvantage when applying for the same residency spots as current 4th year or pgy-1 med students?

The advantage of applying as a med student is that you have better opportunity to audition and get to know a particular program. It is more challenging to do while on active duty. I didn't do it and still matched at my #1, a program which I believe is the strongest program in the country in my specialty. I have slightly above average board scores. My flight surgery tour, along with my interview skills got me the position.

Yes, I am considering HPSP for the money, Yes I do want/have the desire to serve my country and what better way than as a physician, which I've always wanted to be. Yes I know the limitations on your choice of residency, but I want to serve 4 years as FS and then pursue my residency. Yes, I've researched and looked into FAP. I've looked at and considered a lot of options, but long story short, I like change of pace, I desire to be part of the military, and what better way than to have them pay for my schooling as well as enjoy the detour in which I know the "consequences" and "benefits" about.

Be aware that Navy and USAF doesn't have PM&R as a residency, only Army. You can try to use your FS tour to boost your resume, but it is definitely a calculated risk. I know a few FSs who failed to match into PM&R. You still have to met cut offs in regards to numbers.

Regarding the actual question I asked in paragraph 2, I am looking Into being a Family Doc, Family Doc/OMM specialist and/or physiatrist (PM&R) if that makes a difference in how residency programs choose their future residents. (Really considering family doc/OMM specialist which is one of the many reasons why I want to do 4 years payback before residency). Thank you in advanced

If you want to do MSK...there is no substitute for PM&R. The MASS MAJORITY of FPs don't do OMT in practice...you get too bogged down with treating DM, HTN, HLD. PM&R is the most DO friendly specialty, and one in which you have a good chance to match with average-above average scores coming out of med school (especially after a fleet tour). The pay difference between PM&R and FP is also substantial...and I believe that MSC/PRP is going to be a future cash cow as well.

 

[D.O. OMM boob]

I'm going to start off saying I know there is an excellent thread on the exact procedures on exactly how and when to apply to residency while a GMO so that you can join your residency program right after you serve your time.

Thank you. Glad it was helpful.

My question however (maybe I didn't do enough research) is exactly how hard is it getting your desired civilian residency after you serve your 4 years payback from HPSP as GMO/Flight surgeon?

Educate yourself on the civilian match process...what is and isn't important in regards to matching. I created an advice thread on the PM&R forum that was well received about how to match into PM&R. There is lots of useful information for matching to other civilian programs as well. I would encourage looking at it, especially if you are considering PM&R, which I believe is the best training under the sun for MSK. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/pm-r-advice-to-applicants.1114792/

And for any DO's out there, have you had the chance to use OMT at all during your payback years?

I use OMT regularly and have actually become quite good at MSK during my FS tour. I'm the other DO who performs OMT in my area, so I regularly get consulted by attending (MDs and DOs alike) to see their more complex MSK stuff. I imagine that it helped me on the interview trail.

I'm assuming they use the exact same criteria of GPA, board scores, how much they know you from rotations in your 4th year etc... But are you at any advantage OR disadvantage when applying for the same residency spots as current 4th year or pgy-1 med students?

The advantage of applying as a med student is that you have better opportunity to audition and get to know a particular program. It is more challenging to do while on active duty. I didn't do it and still matched at my #1, a program which I believe is the strongest program in the country in my specialty. I have slightly above average board scores. My flight surgery tour, along with my interview skills got me the position.

Yes, I am considering HPSP for the money, Yes I do want/have the desire to serve my country and what better way than as a physician, which I've always wanted to be. Yes I know the limitations on your choice of residency, but I want to serve 4 years as FS and then pursue my residency. Yes, I've researched and looked into FAP. I've looked at and considered a lot of options, but long story short, I like change of pace, I desire to be part of the military, and what better way than to have them pay for my schooling as well as enjoy the detour in which I know the "consequences" and "benefits" about.

Be aware that Navy and USAF doesn't have PM&R as a residency, only Army. You can try to use your FS tour to boost your resume, but it is definitely a calculated risk. I know a few FSs who failed to match into PM&R. You still have to met cut offs in regards to numbers.

Regarding the actual question I asked in paragraph 2, I am looking Into being a Family Doc, Family Doc/OMM specialist and/or physiatrist (PM&R) if that makes a difference in how residency programs choose their future residents. (Really considering family doc/OMM specialist which is one of the many reasons why I want to do 4 years payback before residency). Thank you in advanced

If you want to do MSK...there is no substitute for PM&R. The MASS MAJORITY of FPs don't do OMT in practice...you get too bogged down with treating DM, HTN, HLD. PM&R is the most DO friendly specialty, and one in which you have a good chance to match with average-above average scores coming out of med school (especially after a fleet tour). The pay difference between PM&R and FP is also substantial...and I believe that MSC/PRP is going to be a future cash cow as well.

Awesome!

Thank you for all the replies 🙂 you da best! But for real though thank you. You are being an awesome help!

 

[Aegis]

I did my four years of payback as a FS and then matched into a family medicine civilian program. I felt like I was at an advantage having actually practiced medicine before in some programs. Others clearly favored student that had done away rotations there and it didn't matter what your application looked like. I think it just depends on the specialty (advantage to you if you want anything primary care), and the politics of the program. Oh best part, I took a year off between FS and going back to residency and no one really seemed to care. I just kind of bummed around the world for a year, it was great.

 

[D.O. OMM boob]

I did my four years of payback as a FS and then matched into a family medicine civilian program. I felt like I was at an advantage having actually practiced medicine before in some programs. Others clearly favored student that had done away rotations there and it didn't matter what your application looked like. I think it just depends on the specialty (advantage to you if you want anything primary care), and the politics of the program. Oh best part, I took a year off between FS and going back to residency and no one really seemed to care. I just kind of bummed around the world for a year, it was great.

Oh nice, thats awesome. Get some time to re-visit family/friends and do some traveling with that money you have accumulated.

Also just to make sure I have this right, many people don't want to become FS's because it delays their residency, and therefore you get people talking about getting "stuck" with having to do FS. But if I "do" want to become a Flight Surgeon, assuming of course I've accepted the HPSP and graduated med school, is it as simple as applying for the (6 month???) Aerospace class in order to be a certified FS? Everyone has to do a full 1 year internship first though right?

-What would i apply to "match" for if i wanted to be FS, and is that a GUARANTEED SPOT if I apply for it? Because I think i read on here somewhere that if you don't match, you are forced into a 1 year internship followed by Flight medicine school and then serve as a FS. This only doesn't happen if 1) you matched into a residency, or 2) you are disqualified from being a flight surgeon due to physical problems, and then i think you are forced to be a GMO after your 1 year internship.

*Sorry for asking any questions that have previously been answered, I read countless stories of people who get very mad about being forced into FS, and it appears as if this is a default position, and thus guaranteed if someone actually wants to pursue it.*

 

[Cooperd0g]

Oh nice, thats awesome. Get some time to re-visit family/friends and do some traveling with that money you have accumulated.

Also just to make sure I have this right, many people don't want to become FS's because it delays their residency, and therefore you get people talking about getting "stuck" with having to do FS. But if I "do" want to become a Flight Surgeon, assuming of course I've accepted the HPSP and graduated med school, is it as simple as applying for the (6 month???) Aerospace class in order to be a certified FS? Everyone has to do a full 1 year internship first though right?

-What would i apply to "match" for if i wanted to be FS, and is that a GUARANTEED SPOT if I apply for it? Because I think i read on here somewhere that if you don't match, you are forced into a 1 year internship followed by Flight medicine school and then serve as a FS. This only doesn't happen if 1) you matched into a residency, or 2) you are disqualified from being a flight surgeon due to physical problems, and then i think you are forced to be a GMO after your 1 year internship.

*Sorry for asking any questions that have previously been answered, I read countless stories of people who get very mad about being forced into FS, and it appears as if this is a default position, and thus guaranteed if someone actually wants to pursue it.*

Realize that there are differences between the services. Your chances of getting flight surgery with all three services are good, but my knowledge is mostly limited to Navy. Navy FS is the only one with 6 months of training. AF and Army are 8 weeks or something like that. In the Navy you apply to GME only for PGY-1 as a fourth year medical student (unless you request and are granted deferment). During internship you apply to GME again and have the option request residency, FS and UMO. FS in the Navy is not a lock so just be aware of that.

If you do get selected for FS with the Navy then you will get a spot in one of the three classes that occur each year. If you have a wait then you will be stashed somewhere maybe doing urgent care or ER fast track type stuff. I'm sure there are other stash jobs as well. Navy FS school is six months and then you serve as a FS with a unit. Typically you can extend to cover your four year HPSP commitment.

Again, I don't really know Army and AF flight surgery stuff.

 

[D.O. OMM boob]

@Cooperd0g thank you for the reply! I am pretty sure in the AF you apply for any residency spot but can also apply for a pgy-1 internship.

@aegis and @j4pac do you guys have any insight on this since you guys completed FS tours? What do you apply for during the match system and is FS guaranteed? I thought i read somewhere that all AF GMO's are Flight Surgeons

 

[Aegis]

Generally for the AF it works very similar to the Navy, except our aerospace training is six weeks, and not six months. You apply for a PGY-1 spot as a fourth year med student and just declare to AFIT that you want to do flight surgery. You then have to go through both the civilian and military match. That's a whole different conversation. Generally speaking you have to do a PGY-1 as either a transitional intern, or a prelim intern in a medicine or surgical program and this can be civilian or military. IMHO if you are planning to do flight med it's better to military match. You will have exposure to the military and military medicine for a year before your tour, I thought that was helpful, I didn't show up to my first base not knowing how to wear my uniform. Your aerospace medicine training will happen pretty much right after you finish your PGY-1 year, then you have to go at some point to SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape) training that all aircrew have to go through. After that any additional training is unit specific.

Yes, generally all GMO's become FS, unless you can't pass your flight physical. If that's the case you work as a GMO in the family medicine department, dealing with more complicated medicine, with less training than your peers. Makes no sense to me, just the way it is. You will do your flight physical during your inten year.

I think that hits on your questions, let me know. There are a lot of differences between the branches, kind of depends where you want to be stationed, and if your ok being on a carrier. My vote is for AF, or Navy. Sorry Army.

 

[j4pac]

@aegis and @j4pac do you guys have any insight on this since you guys completed FS tours? What do you apply for during the match system and is FS guaranteed? I thought i read somewhere that all AF GMO's are Flight Surgeons[/QUOTE]

During internship I ranked:
1) PM&R Full-time inservice
2) Flight Surgery

I didnt both with the civilian match. It seemed like a big amount of money to dump for the low likelihood of the Navy allowing me to go, along with the timeline issues (I would have had to apply to the less than 10 physician only spots in the civilian match).

 

[bcmcCormick]

Generally for the AF it works very similar to the Navy, except our aerospace training is six weeks, and not six months. You apply for a PGY-1 spot as a fourth year med student and just declare to AFIT that you want to do flight surgery. You then have to go through both the civilian and military match. That's a whole different conversation. Generally speaking you have to do a PGY-1 as either a transitional intern, or a prelim intern in a medicine or surgical program and this can be civilian or military. IMHO if you are planning to do flight med it's better to military match. You will have exposure to the military and military medicine for a year before your tour, I thought that was helpful, I didn't show up to my first base not knowing how to wear my uniform. Your aerospace medicine training will happen pretty much right after you finish your PGY-1 year, then you have to go at some point to SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape) training that all aircrew have to go through. After that any additional training is unit specific.

Yes, generally all GMO's become FS, unless you can't pass your flight physical. If that's the case you work as a GMO in the family medicine department, dealing with more complicated medicine, with less training than your peers. Makes no sense to me, just the way it is. You will do your flight physical during your inten year.

I think that hits on your questions, let me know. There are a lot of differences between the branches, kind of depends where you want to be stationed, and if your ok being on a carrier. My vote is for AF, or Navy. Sorry Army.

Very helpful! So after your GMO tour is up would you then need to enter the match a second time, or could you just pick up where you left off after PGY-1?