Residency at older age!

[insiderdent]

Hello,
I tried to search the forum for a similar thread but could not find an answer. I apologize if this is repetitive! I am a general dentist who is very interested in either pediatric dentistry or ortho specialty. For family reasons, I may only be able to apply as I approach my 50s! I was wondering if I should keep this hope of speciality until then "few years from now"or just give up and keep working as a general dentist. I am in Texas and speciality is very lucrative here! But more importantly, it is a dream for me, I keep watching residency threads every single year here even though I can't apply just yet!Are programs even going to consider an older applicant that many years out of school? I work in family dentistry with more than 70% pediatric patients. Any advice is highly appreciated!

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[veryhappylabrador]

I have met pediatric dentists who went back after a decade, I have seen cases of ortho residents older than you would be (rarer, and they do it for love of learning and not because of economic reasons). In my opinion (as a random stranger on the Internet), your biggest hurdle is convincing faculty that you can be trained as more experienced dentists may be more stubborn and so far removed from a school setting that it can be difficult to make you think like a younger doctor who is still developing his/her treatment philosophy and knowledge base.

 

[bcwilliamson]

Hello , I am in Texas and turn 50 next month. This year is my second year applying to endo residency. Both times ghosted and told (in not so many words that my time has come and gone). I have heard the same BS from many on these threads that I may be too set in my ways and unteachable at my age. That I would not be able to practice endo as long as new grads (granted they don’t quit endo to make ugly Christmas sweaters on Shark tank). Don’t listen to this nonsense. It’s inexperience and ignorance on their part. I have been advancing my skill sets from graduation, training in 2 year ortho program, endo continuum’s, implants, live patient training in impacted third molars, IV sedation training, advanced sedation and airway training, travel to guatemala to train new grads how to extract teeth. I’ve done more multi-warm and continuous wave vertical compaction molar endo with scope than most endo residents graduating (many geriatric with complex and illusive anatomy). I’ve committed to constant training and advancement in my skills. The idea of not being teachable is beyond laughable. I am open to learn new techniques and new methods all the time through training. Actually, currently working on my certifications in cyber security to be a Threat Hunter; non-teachable, BS. To say we are too old is ignorant and would highly suggest all the PDs have nothing left to offer either. Top 10% of my class, aced my boards (second highest score), OKU, and very successful private practice. Being a seasoned practitioner has many advantages the young do not yet possess. I encourage you to apply and show them what you can do. The politics of the process is brutal, but give it a try, you may just get lucky.
I couldn’t get into endo, so I’ll limit my practice to IV sedation and endodontics by general dentist. One of my buddies limits his practice to IV & impactions; faster and better than most OMS I’ve ever seen. If you can’t get into ortho, there are good programs out there that you can attend. Find an older orthodontist who can mentor you and you’ll have your own personal PD. Good luck and give it a go. Godspeed my friend.

 

[Dion]

Hello , I am in Texas and turn 50 next month. This year is my second year applying to endo residency. Both times ghosted and told (in not so many words that my time has come and gone). I have heard the same BS from many on these threads that I may be too set in my ways and unteachable at my age. That I would not be able to practice endo as long as new grads (granted they don’t quit endo to make ugly Christmas sweaters on Shark tank). Don’t listen to this nonsense. It’s inexperience and ignorance on their part. I have been advancing my skill sets from graduation, training in 2 year ortho program, endo continuum’s, implants, live patient training in impacted third molars, IV sedation training, advanced sedation and airway training, travel to guatemala to train new grads how to extract teeth. I’ve done more multi-warm and continuous wave vertical compaction molar endo with scope than most endo residents graduating (many geriatric with complex and illusive anatomy). I’ve committed to constant training and advancement in my skills. The idea of not being teachable is beyond laughable. I am open to learn new techniques and new methods all the time through training. Actually, currently working on my certifications in cyber security to be a Threat Hunter; non-teachable, BS. To say we are too old is ignorant and would highly suggest all the PDs have nothing left to offer either. Top 10% of my class, aced my boards (second highest score), OKU, and very successful private practice. Being a seasoned practitioner has many advantages the young do not yet possess. I encourage you to apply and show them what you can do. The politics of the process is brutal, but give it a try, you may just get lucky.
I couldn’t get into endo, so I’ll limit my practice to IV sedation and endodontics by general dentist. One of my buddies limits his practice to IV & impactions; faster and better than most OMS I’ve ever seen. If you can’t get into ortho, there are good programs out there that you can attend. Find an older orthodontist who can mentor you and you’ll have your own personal PD. Good luck and give it a go. Godspeed my friend.

How many endo programs did you apply to?

 

[bcwilliamson]

How many endo programs did you apply to?

Seven

 

[insiderdent]

I have met pediatric dentists who went back after a decade, I have seen cases of ortho residents older than you would be (rarer, and they do it for love of learning and not because of economic reasons). In my opinion (as a random stranger on the Internet), your biggest hurdle is convincing faculty that you can be trained as more experienced dentists may be more stubborn and so far removed from a school setting that it can be difficult to make you think like a younger doctor who is still developing his/her treatment philosophy and knowledge base.

Thank you for your reply ! I think I misspoke when I said more lucrative. In complete honesty, I enjoy pediatrics and ortho the most in my day to day work, and I feel I am my best self doing them which is why I am thinking of this! I do agree though that the mentality for the program directors will be wether or not one is teachable at this age but I am hoping I can show them I am ! As I truly try to grow on those fields as much as I can and keep working on myself to be better at them !

 

[insiderdent]

Hello , I am in Texas and turn 50 next month. This year is my second year applying to endo residency. Both times ghosted and told (in not so many words that my time has come and gone). I have heard the same BS from many on these threads that I may be too set in my ways and unteachable at my age. That I would not be able to practice endo as long as new grads (granted they don’t quit endo to make ugly Christmas sweaters on Shark tank). Don’t listen to this nonsense. It’s inexperience and ignorance on their part. I have been advancing my skill sets from graduation, training in 2 year ortho program, endo continuum’s, implants, live patient training in impacted third molars, IV sedation training, advanced sedation and airway training, travel to guatemala to train new grads how to extract teeth. I’ve done more multi-warm and continuous wave vertical compaction molar endo with scope than most endo residents graduating (many geriatric with complex and illusive anatomy). I’ve committed to constant training and advancement in my skills. The idea of not being teachable is beyond laughable. I am open to learn new techniques and new methods all the time through training. Actually, currently working on my certifications in cyber security to be a Threat Hunter; non-teachable, BS. To say we are too old is ignorant and would highly suggest all the PDs have nothing left to offer either. Top 10% of my class, aced my boards (second highest score), OKU, and very successful private practice. Being a seasoned practitioner has many advantages the young do not yet possess. I encourage you to apply and show them what you can do. The politics of the process is brutal, but give it a try, you may just get lucky.
I couldn’t get into endo, so I’ll limit my practice to IV sedation and endodontics by general dentist. One of my buddies limits his practice to IV & impactions; faster and better than most OMS I’ve ever seen. If you can’t get into ortho, there are good programs out there that you can attend. Find an older orthodontist who can mentor you and you’ll have your own personal PD. Good luck and give it a go. Godspeed my friend.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I do expect the process to be even more brutal for me at this age, but I might as well try ! Your idea to limiting your practice to what you do enjoy is brilliant! Who knows, if I do not get accepted I might as well do that !

 

[FutureDent020]

Hello , I am in Texas and turn 50 next month. This year is my second year applying to endo residency. Both times ghosted and told (in not so many words that my time has come and gone). I have heard the same BS from many on these threads that I may be too set in my ways and unteachable at my age. That I would not be able to practice endo as long as new grads (granted they don’t quit endo to make ugly Christmas sweaters on Shark tank). Don’t listen to this nonsense. It’s inexperience and ignorance on their part. I have been advancing my skill sets from graduation, training in 2 year ortho program, endo continuum’s, implants, live patient training in impacted third molars, IV sedation training, advanced sedation and airway training, travel to guatemala to train new grads how to extract teeth. I’ve done more multi-warm and continuous wave vertical compaction molar endo with scope than most endo residents graduating (many geriatric with complex and illusive anatomy). I’ve committed to constant training and advancement in my skills. The idea of not being teachable is beyond laughable. I am open to learn new techniques and new methods all the time through training. Actually, currently working on my certifications in cyber security to be a Threat Hunter; non-teachable, BS. To say we are too old is ignorant and would highly suggest all the PDs have nothing left to offer either. Top 10% of my class, aced my boards (second highest score), OKU, and very successful private practice. Being a seasoned practitioner has many advantages the young do not yet possess. I encourage you to apply and show them what you can do. The politics of the process is brutal, but give it a try, you may just get lucky.
I couldn’t get into endo, so I’ll limit my practice to IV sedation and endodontics by general dentist. One of my buddies limits his practice to IV & impactions; faster and better than most OMS I’ve ever seen. If you can’t get into ortho, there are good programs out there that you can attend. Find an older orthodontist who can mentor you and you’ll have your own personal PD. Good luck and give it a go. Godspeed my friend.

This is actually super interesting. I agree, your age shouldn’t be a red flag or deterrent. I think your experience raises some question marks. If they know all about it… Like why do you now want to specialize? You’re already practicing at a high level, doing a bunch of everything, making good money, what’s your endo incentive? You just love it? And also, with all that experience comes opinions, anecdotal evidence (which they HATE), and honestly, knowledge they don’t have. A lot of PD/ chairs don’t have a lot of practice experience, so your experience might be a little intimidating. Or for lack of better words, just something they don’t want to deal with. They’re creatures of habit. They like their residents to be little sponges and to mold them. Being older with so much practice experience, may make them a bit uncomfortable.

 

[bcwilliamson]

This is actually super interesting. I agree, your age shouldn’t be a red flag or deterrent. I think your experience raises some question marks. If they know all about it… Like why do you now want to specialize? You’re already practicing at a high level, doing a bunch of everything, making good money, what’s your endo incentive? You just love it? And also, with all that experience comes opinions, anecdotal evidence (which they HATE), and honestly, knowledge they don’t have. A lot of PD/ chairs don’t have a lot of practice experience, so your experience might be a little intimidating. Or for lack of better words, just something they don’t want to deal with. They’re creatures of habit. They like their residents to be little sponges and to mold them. Being older with so much practice experience, may make them a bit uncomfortable.

When you start out genden, you are a jack of all trades, master to none. Once you master multiple areas, they become easier and appear to be a golden road with fountains of money. Yes, the money is good; but, Burnout is real man. Keeping up with so many areas and staying at the top of your game in every area all the time will wear you down; at least, it did me. What’s my motive? I do not want to spend the next 15-20 years in so many areas. I’m FI but do not want to give up dentistry. I love endo; give me molar endo all day with IV and I’m a happy man. Extractions, impactions, implants, grafts, composites, veneers, full mouth rehab, crown & bridge, and all the hygiene checks have toasted me out man. Limiting my practice to the one area I love the most seems logical to me. That is why I’ve applied twice.
Am I opinionated, yes; 22yrs experience, how can I not be. I know what works and what doesn’t. Anecdotal, i keep up with endo journals and updates as much as possible. I’m a nerd. Are they uncomfortable by me, that may be true, they did act different around me than the younger ones. Thank you for your interest and comments, I appreciate them. Like I said earlier, i’ll either limit my practice or maybe teach. If these PDs have little practical experience as you state, maybe I can pass on real world knowledge to next gen dentist as a prof. Thanks.

 

[redchesus]

OHSU seems friendly to older applicants. The year I applied they had a resident that was a general dentist for 19 years before going into endo.

My personal experience, as someone who practiced for a bit before going back, there are programs where the majority of the faculty went straight from D-school to residency to teaching... and they are extremely dogmatic in their views and did not appreciate any of the subtleties of real life practice that isn't in an academic vacuum

 

[yappy]

OHSU seems friendly to older applicants. The year I applied they had a resident that was a general dentist for 19 years before going into endo.

My personal experience, as someone who practiced for a bit before going back, there are programs where the majority of the faculty went straight from D-school to residency to teaching... and they are extremely dogmatic in their views and did not appreciate any of the subtleties of real life practice that isn't in an academic vacuum

Sad. Honestly, you should not be able to be teaching in a program unless you also see your own patients part time. Only in dental residencies, except oms, do the faculty not see their own patients.

 

[nateriver]

One of the peds attendings in my dental school went back for peds 20 years later , it can be done

 

[nateriver]

Sad. Honestly, you should not be able to be teaching in a program unless you also see your own patients part time. Only in dental residencies, except oms, do the faculty not see their own patients.

This isn’t true , the attendings in my residency saw patients as well

 

[yappy]

This isn’t true , the attendings in my residency saw patients as well

Is this the norm for peds? At my DS none of the specialist faculty saw pts. They covered clinic and did admin work.

 

[nateriver]

.

 

[nateriver]

Is this the norm for peds? At my DS none of the specialist faculty saw pts. They covered clinic and did admin work.

In my residency the attendings saw patients some days of the week, in my dental school they supervised dental students

 

[PedoOrthoDream]

Hello,
I tried to search the forum for a similar thread but could not find an answer. I apologize if this is repetitive! I am a general dentist who is very interested in either pediatric dentistry or ortho specialty. For family reasons, I may only be able to apply as I approach my 50s! I was wondering if I should keep this hope of speciality until then "few years from now"or just give up and keep working as a general dentist. I am in Texas and speciality is very lucrative here! But more importantly, it is a dream for me, I keep watching residency threads every single year here even though I can't apply just yet!Are programs even going to consider an older applicant that many years out of school? I work in family dentistry with more than 70% pediatric patients. Any advice is highly appreciated!

Hey there! I am in a similar situation. I am a board certified Pediatric Dentist and am interested in becoming dual trained as an Orthodontist. Career wise, I would like to work as Pedo Ortho until retirement. I have been practicing 17 years,1 year AEGD, 7 years Gen Den, 2 years Pedo Residency, 7 years as a Pediatric Dentist. I too am concerned about the possible stigma of being an older applicant. I would be over 45 when starting residency if accepted. And depending on how many times I have to try to Match a program, just north of 50 when I graduate. Anyone else have experience being an older resident?