Residency Director harassment
- Thread starter Hallux123
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347932
My advice would be to contact the CPME and discuss this with them directly. Unfortunately, if anything is to be done, names will have to be given and fingers will have to be pointed in a situation like this. Very uncomfortable to say the least. I'm terribly sorry you are in this situation.
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Yes, it is a 3-yr. I believe that funding is an issue and forcing one (or more) out will 'protect' the residency. Taking the 24-month and running is the most logical, I have decided. While there is injustice, it's not worth the time and money to fight at this time. Now, hopefully he will keep his offer and not be even more vindictive and force resignation. Thank you for your comments.
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BTW....I am NOT the actual resident. I would hate for that Director, for some reason, to read this and think that it is that specific resident posting this. I am just aware of the situation and thought I may be able to help get some opinions or ideas to try to help my friend. The resident doesn't know I submitted this question...yet...
Ding ding ding.^^
The 24 cert will allow you to sit for ABPS, get a state license, etc... and you can do an approved fellowship that gets you an appreciable amount of RRA cases if that cert/practice interests you. As was mentioned, you could go the lawyer/CPME/COTH/etc route, but even if you ended up "WINNING" do you really want to do a chief resident year at a place that doesn't seem to want you for whatever personal/political/etc reason?
I'm sure you're mad, but as you probably know, this "pyramid program" type of model where only one/some of the residents get to move on to the chief year and best cases was pretty common not too long ago. If you matched into and signed a 36mo program contract, then yeah, it sounds as if you are getting shafted. Definitely hard to say without all the facts, though... there's more than one side to every story.
GL... make the most of the hand you're dealt. 👍
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I agree with you Feli, BUT at a certain point an abusive residency director (if this is truly what is going on, rather than a personality conflict), needs to be exposed. There is no place for that in the realm of education imho. And perhaps this resident went to that program because of the opportunity for three years of training, which he or she is being denied at this point. As I said, this does come up and is a sad situation for the resident involved. Truly.
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It is very rare. Most of the time when this situation does come up it tends to be differences in personality types or philosophies that clash. This is whole different animal than when a group of residents complain about "abusive" behavior. There have been residency directors removed because of this in the past, but once again, it requires naming these individuals and finger pointing and most residents won't expose themselves to this (rightfully so or not). Once again,as well, it is exceedingly rare, but when it does come up it is rough all around.
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It has been my experience that the CPME does very little to truly stop bad directors. I personally had a situation where there was a director who the CPME on visits documented numerous issues, residents complained to the CPME and attendings sent letters on the record. The hospital finally replaced him and what did he do? He moved to another hospital and tried to open another residency. When I filed a complaint, I was told the CPME can only deal with hospitals not directors. They approved the program(even knowing the issues with this guy) and only after I dealt with the hospital ( they had no idea of the issues with this individual since the CPME didn't not provide reports from the previous program) did the hospital find another director. BTW I wasn't even on staff at that hospital but after the IMO criminal, unethical, abusive behavior this guy exhibited I would not have been able to sleep had he been permitted to be director.
There are several examples where bad apples through deception, politics, or poor onsite visits have been allowed to abuse for decades. The resident is really at a disadvantage since if they complain and the program is closed they do not get a diploma or worse they face the wrath of the director.
In your case I would look for a program that may have an opening in their third year.
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Unethical and deceitful is still unethical and deceitful. Sounds like the CPME did their job with this person initially, but he or she found a way around the system, which, if you try hard enough, you can do.
No system is perfect and there is risk, but if no one takes that risk, the problem will persist.
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Once again, gladly, you spoke up and the situation was resolved. It is ultimately up to the hospital to relieve a "bad" director under that situation as, if no current resident of this director complained, the CPME would have no grounds to not approve the program. Why punish the program for a problem that can be dealt with and resolved after the fact? Good program with bad director. Remove bad director and now have a potentially GREAT program with an amazing Director, if they can find the right guy or gal to replace him or her.
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, as we all want the same thing. More positions and well treated and trained residents.
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dyk343
I guess I never really thought about residents being dismissed before completing the program.
How often do directors ask a resident to leave because they do not fit in, show little initiative, or do not have what it takes intellectually?
*note I am not saying the OP is guilty of any of these. This is a personal side question that has sparked my interest in the topic.
This question is also different than anklebreaker's asking about abusive attendings. This is a question based on the residents performance/social skills
How often do directors ask a resident to leave because they do not fit in, show little initiative, or do not have what it takes intellectually?
*note I am not saying the OP is guilty of any of these. This is a personal side question that has sparked my interest in the topic.
This question is also different than anklebreaker's asking about abusive attendings. This is a question based on the residents performance/social skills
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No the CPME permitted this director to exist for 17 years and then approved a new program with him as director.
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I believe the person you speak of was also the President of the APMA at one time. We are all to blame in that case.
It's not common, but it does happen... esp at historically high level programs (which are almost invariably also high stress programs). Many of those programs' directors and/or other main attendings come from the days where 50% or fewer grads got a residency at all... and a much lower % got a good, multi-year surgical residency program. There are sayings like "surgery is a privilege, not a right," and I don't disagree. Who knows, maybe their way of thinking is that if you are not grateful and appreciative for your opportunity, then they'd rather have nobody in the resident spot.
My program director is strict, but it's also a program with fairly reasonable academic and work hour demands considering the surgical volume (hence why it was my top match choice). In 30+ yrs, we haven't had any resident leave that didn't do so on their own accord (a few out of hundreds had to leave for personal, family, etc reasons). However, we do have one main attending who is an excellent and efficient technical surgeon. He's fairly pompous but backs it up in every regard: better than I will ever be, excellent procedure selection, a perfect blend of speed and quality in the OR, the anatomy layers literally appear to fall apart for him, and as if that wasn't enough, he heads what is surely one of, if not the, most financially successful pod groups in the Det metro. I would be extremely happy if I can every practice and operate at this guy's level. He really has a gift, but still lets the residents "get the work" for the vast majority of cases provided they seem prepared and are doing well. Nonetheless, couple years before I started, though, the residents had a day with a very busy schedule (we go to a lot of hospitals and surg centers), and one of his cases (digital case) was not covered. He informed the residents that his cases are his patients, and it's all-or-nothing, not a situation where you pick and choose. They were told their presence would not be necessary at his cases - or any of his partners/associates surgical cases - for the next few months. Rumor has it that some of the senior residents even offered to wash his boat, wax his car, etc... but his mind was made up. Now fortunately, we have a high surgical volume, and they all still got their MAV numbers even without that group's cases. In the end, you can say what you like about his unreasonable ego or modern resident laziness, but let's just say this: since then, we haven't missed any more cases for anyone in his group. 😉
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dyk343
Thanks for your reply Feli
Ironically, I know who it is exactly who you both are speaking of. . . small world? It gets even smaller in podiatry.
I made the mistake of visiting one of his offices, it was a rough experience.
Podfather: Thank you.
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It is a small world in general. That's why it's always prudent to watch out for who is around you and avoid stepping on people on your way "up the ladder". You never know when that person you stepped on will be waiting to saw away that next rung you're trying to climb.
We all should be thankful that we have contributors like Podfather, PADPM and Jonwill on these for forums. Their guidance is invaluable to us all.
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just curious but none of these posts actually states what exactly the residency director did that made the workplace a "hostile" environment?
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Nor should they.
Examples of some things that can contribute to a "hostile" environment may actually be published in hospital bylaws and such. This avoids any ambiguity with relation to accusations.
A good example is throwing instruments in the OR. And I don't mean dropping an instrument on the floor. I mean purposefully launching an intrument across the room. I think there is no question that this can be perceived as hostile. But, it is a "touchy" subject, and generally is evaluated on a case to case basis.
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The abusive ones I knew and know are total whimps with bad breath and no balls to back up their antics, they are older and out of shape... anytime a resident has cornered them and threatened to physically educate them, they cower like the cowards they are! A good B-slap is usually enough to correct the problem. WTF, why not take it all the way, 200k in debt and getting kicked out? make it worth while, since these slime balls don't seem to have any limits, why should anyone else????
Jjust don't leave a mark, his word against yours.... Better yet, get all the residents together and have "an attending pillow party," just like the marines do when they can't stand the f'n dumb ones who don't fit in. They really are vulnerable if you think about it.
This is how it used to be in america, and how it is in many parts of the world. Educating oddballs and abusive weirdos is the rule. We have gotten too weak. Many a boss has been reeducated by his abused employee the world around one way or another.
Maybe uncle bubba could "talk" to the idiot for you and reeducate him, if you lack the sack.
It's funny, some of these abusive guys only pick whimpy guys and women for their programs.... so that they don't get their sissy faces busted in....
Jjust don't leave a mark, his word against yours.... Better yet, get all the residents together and have "an attending pillow party," just like the marines do when they can't stand the f'n dumb ones who don't fit in. They really are vulnerable if you think about it.
This is how it used to be in america, and how it is in many parts of the world. Educating oddballs and abusive weirdos is the rule. We have gotten too weak. Many a boss has been reeducated by his abused employee the world around one way or another.
Maybe uncle bubba could "talk" to the idiot for you and reeducate him, if you lack the sack.
It's funny, some of these abusive guys only pick whimpy guys and women for their programs.... so that they don't get their sissy faces busted in....
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Troll somewhere else please.
