residency in norway,sweden,holland

[divinebalance]

What are the possibilities for american citizens who are graduates of polish medical school that want to continue to live in europe and do their residency in either norway, sweden, holland, switzerland, or other european countries?>>
I am looking for a way to earn a decent salary in family practice/internal medicine or surgery as a first year resident. I do have high student loans as i have borrowed money in usa to pay for my schooling in poland....but i heard that you can make much more in europe and als that the mindset is more open to "integrative medicine" and the holostic approach which i am very interested in. I would like to have an integrative medical practice eventually, which combines both allopathy with alternative medicine....where would be the right place to go to do this? which country? and as a general internist, would the compensation be acceptable to pay back us student loans even though i am a eu graduate??? i know that these are a lot of questions, but i would appreicate any help or answers in this regard....
thank you so much!!!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Miklos]

What are the possibilities for american citizens who are graduates of polish medical school that want to continue to live in europe and do their residency in either norway, sweden, holland, switzerland, or other european countries?>>
I am looking for a way to earn a decent salary in family practice/internal medicine or surgery as a first year resident. I do have high student loans as i have borrowed money in usa to pay for my schooling in poland....but i heard that you can make much more in europe and als that the mindset is more open to "integrative medicine" and the holostic approach which i am very interested in. I would like to have an integrative medical practice eventually, which combines both allopathy with alternative medicine....where would be the right place to go to do this? which country? and as a general internist, would the compensation be acceptable to pay back us student loans even though i am a eu graduate??? i know that these are a lot of questions, but i would appreicate any help or answers in this regard....
thank you so much!!!

Potential problems:

1) Language. Unless you are fluent in Norwegian or Swedish (I'll assume Dutch as well, though I don't have any knowledge about Holland), you will not be able to gain registration.

2) Residency/citizenship. Getting a work permit, unless you have EU/EEA citizenship/residency rights may be nigh impossible.

3) Compensation. Though Norwegians (for instance) can make a significant amount of money as junior doctors, they also are subject to very high rates of taxation. In addition, Norway is a very expensive place to live (Oslo was ranked as one of the most expensive in the world). In the long run, US physicians beat Europeans hand down, in compensation, lower taxation and lower living costs.

(I'll reserve comments about "integrative"/holisitic medicine.)

So, unless you can gain EU/EEA citizenship/residency rights as well as learn the particular language, you are probably out of luck.

NB My Norwegian friends are telling me that the wait list to get an internship keeps getting longer as more and more Norwegians are returning from CE. You could probably get your USMLEs done by the time you'd be considered for a spot.

 

[brightblueeyes]

Potential problems:

1) Language. Unless you are fluent in Norwegian or Swedish (I'll assume Dutch as well, though I don't have any knowledge about Holland), you will not be able to gain registration.

You have to prove fluency in Dutch to register as a doctor in the Netherlands. Swiss registration seems to be done at the Canton level and I'm pretty sure you need to be fluent in the Canton's language.

3) Compensation. Though Norwegians (for instance) can make a significant amount of money as junior doctors, they also are subject to very high rates of taxation. In addition, Norway is a very expensive place to live (Oslo was ranked as one of the most expensive in the world). In the long run, US physicians beat Europeans hand down, in compensation, lower taxation and lower living costs.

All true but a little misleading. High living costs are inextricably linked with high taxation. France, for example, is infamous for its heavy taxation. But Price Waterhouse did a comparison of different countries and found that for similar incomes and situations French households paid less income tax than similar households in the US. The French also had to make heavy social security contributions but when these were taken into account the total still tended to be no more (or not much more) than American income tax contributions. I don't know Norwegian income tax levels, but in many countries, the real burden lies not in separate taxes but rather in the hidden taxes which account for the high "living costs" you refer to.

 

[Miklos]

All true but a little misleading. High living costs are inextricably linked with high taxation. France, for example, is infamous for its heavy taxation. But Price Waterhouse did a comparison of different countries and found that for similar incomes and situations French households paid less income tax than similar households in the US. The French also had to make heavy social security contributions but when these were taken into account the total still tended to be no more (or not much more) than American income tax contributions. I don't know Norwegian income tax levels, but in many countries, the real burden lies not in separate taxes but rather in the hidden taxes which account for the high "living costs" you refer to.

You know, when I get tired of preparing for my exams, there's often little like our eternal debates on socialism versus capitalism to cheer me up (the same for you, I hope?)

First, I meant taxation in general terms; yes, they are technically "social security contributions" -- whatever that means, but the end result is the same, the government takes money away from you and redistributes it to someone else.

Second, we haven't discussed value added taxation, nor effects of socialism such as highly sclerotic labor markets which significantly add to consumer costs.

But, the question of whether a US physician does better than a European one can simply be answered by using purchasing power parity. See this survey, kindly provided by tlew12778 on this thread.

IMO, it is pretty unequivocal.

 

[MSHell]

First, I meant taxation in general terms; yes, they are technically "social security contributions" -- whatever that means, but the end result is the same, the government takes money away from you and redistributes it to someone else...

This is the only thing i want to comment on - some european countries have a specific "health and social tax" or contribution or whatever. But the point is that the government doesn't take the money from you and give it to someone else. You contribute and get "free" healthcare from the state as well as other social services (like a pension, eventually). The taxpayer directly benefits as well.

 

[Miklos]

This is the only thing i want to comment on - some european countries have a specific "health and social tax" or contribution or whatever. But the point is that the government doesn't take the money from you and give it to someone else. You contribute and get "free" healthcare from the state as well as other social services (like a pension, eventually). The taxpayer directly benefits as well.

Well, actually it does.

I offer the following example. A relatively recent study of Sweden (a couple years old) found that from an individual financial perspective, one would be better off unemployed than employed at lower pay scales.

Why?

Because in addition to unemployment payments, you would get a host of other benefits such as housing, healthcare and childcare subsidies as long as you remained unemployed.

These must be financed by someone as the unemployed person is in essence a drain on the general fund.

In this case, the Swedish government takes taxes (in whatever form you care; be it income, capital, value added, customs, social "contributions") and redistributes it from the working taxpayer to the unemployed.

As long as your economy is growing and productive enough, you might be able to afford it. However, when things slow down and you've got to start borrowing to afford today's benefits (essentially mortgaging the future) and you've got a demographic crises (birth rates below population replacement and retiring baby boomers), then you've got a recipe for disaster.

Please see the current state of the German economy for a real life example.

 

[brightblueeyes]

You know, when I get tired of preparing for my exams, there's often little like our eternal debates on socialism versus capitalism to cheer me up (the same for you, I hope?)

Yeah, I enjoy them too. 🙂

First, I meant taxation in general terms; yes, they are technically "social security contributions" -- whatever that means, but the end result is the same, the government takes money away from you and redistributes it to someone else.

Second, we haven't discussed value added taxation, nor effects of socialism such as highly sclerotic labor markets which significantly add to consumer costs.

But, the question of whether a US physician does better than a European one can simply be answered by using purchasing power parity. See this survey, kindly provided by tlew12778 on this thread.

IMO, it is pretty unequivocal.

I wasn't suggesting that French or Norwegian physicians have more purchasing power than their American counterparts--give me some credit. 😉 What I was getting at was that you wrote "high living cost" and "taxation" as if they were separate. But this high living cost is a direct result of heavy (but sometimes hidden) taxation.

 

[alitawbi]

hi.
i`m a dr. from lebanon.i`m doing my residency in orthopedics in bulgaria, i want to ask if there is, any possibilty for me to continue my residency in sweeden?
best regards