Residency Matching

[justwannabadoc]

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Does anyone know where I can get match results, both allopathic and osteopathic? I am trying to find out which DO and MD residency programs DO graduates have gotten into in the past few years. I recall someone posting a journal that gives this information but I forgot to write it down. Also, can we take part in both matches? I've read in osteopathic.net that you can't normally because of legal issues. However, I've also read that this is a benefit of going the DO track.

 

[JONM]

Y

[This message has been edited by JONM (edited 02-16-99).]

 

[justwannabadoc]

So in other words, there is some misinformation out there stating that being a graduate of a DO school benefits one because one is able to go through both matches. What it should say is that you have the option of going through the AOA match instead of AMA only and if you choose the former, you will be competing against fewer students (but perhaps for fewer overall spots).

 

[Jack DOe]

Where have you gotten this misinformation? I am aware of some information on another message board (Princeton review), but it did not say you could go through both matches at the same time. It did state that more positions are available to DOs because they could select an ACGME residency or an AOA residency. You do have to choose before you are accepted to either. Osteopathic students are the only ones able to make this choice.

 

[prefontaine]

A while ago, I posted some of the info you are seeking. Look at the educational issues of JAMA (~early Sept ea year) and JAOA (Nov? of ea year). The NRMP sells a book filled with stats that is useful, check their website, you will have to find the website on your own. I posted it once and do not carry the info around to rotation sites, so use a search engine and your imagination.

Of course you can take part in both matches, ignore the self-righteous posters that have no idea what they are talking about. So what if you match with the AOA and then decide to go the ACGME route, it is your career. Programs have many interns/residents ea year, you should have only one GME. Does anyone really think a DME will force someone to come to their program that does not want to be there. Use some common sense.

In the last few years, I have met many students that were misinformed about the residency process and ultimately completed two internships. PCOM & LECOM students must be led around by blinders by their administration. Leran the facts and stop with this 'I heard...' BS. Read Isserson's book cover to cover before starting DO school and then review it often.

In the meantime, I would like to thank all those clueless DO students that made it so easy for me to get several offers for residencies from some highly reputable ACGME programs.

 

[sweetpea]

I believe that's "Iserson" with one s, not two...and could you stop trying to insult everyone around you?

 

[Jack DOe]

prefontaine is correct in saying that you can go through both matches. Doing so is a personal choice for each of us. The consequences of not going through with a contract can be serious. Possibly, they will do nothing. Legally they can take action. I seriously doubt making you come to their residency is the actions they would take. It is considered unprofessional to participate in both. Career wise I think it is unwise to break the first commitment you make as a DO. (no need to reply prefontaine; I guess I am one of the self-righteous clueless DO students that have no idea what they are talking about.)

 

[prefontaine]

Jack, your last sentence might be true as you do not appear to be very well informed about the match process. For an 'S' position, an applicant applies during the fourth year, at the same time one is applying for the AOA internship. There is no conflict involved and it is the recommended route. Since the S positions are being increasingly sought after by DO students, you are providing incorrect and misleading information. As far as participating in both matches simultaneously being 'unprofessional', I suppose since none of us are paid to do it (in fact, it costs $80 to participate in the NRMP), it is an amateur act and not professional. Each year, ~5% of the fourth year DO students that match through the AOA do not sign the contract or ask to be released. The amount of legal action taken by programs...zero. If you are truly interested in 'unprofessional' behavior, and if you ever make it to the point where you are interviewing for an internship/residency, you will probably receive personal lessons from some of the AOA residency directors. Many are well versed in bending/breaking the guidelines for the AOA match. BTW, when do plan on starting DO school?

 

[Deb]

Here's my two cents. There's nothing wrong with matching to an AOA internship
and an ACGME residency (just make sure you ONLY apply to advanced programs so
you don't end up doing an extra internship). However, matching with both AOA
and ACGME residencies is unethical. Just because they probably wouldn't take
legal action wouldn't make me feel any better about deceiving AOA DME's, and
just because others do it doesn't make it right.

[This message has been edited by Deb (edited 02-13-99).]

 

[Lee]

It is totally OK to go through the AOA internship match and the ACGME residency match at the same time (as long as it's for an ACGME program that allows you to do your first year anywhere).

It is not OK to try to match for both AOA and ACGME residencies and pick the best of your matches. This means that you break one of two match contracts -- although rarely does legal action occur, you can be assured you'll be blackballed. Not smart if both programs are located in the same geographical area in which you wish to practice.

But this technique usually doesn't work anyhow because the AOA and ACGME matches are seperated by a few months. Most AOA programs will drop your position in 2-3 weeks if you do not sign the formal internship contract you receive right after the AOA match. If you sign that contract, you're really going to get screwed if you try to break it -- it's much more binding than the match.

Frankly, for me it would not be worth the legal hassle and professional risks of attempting to double match. However, it's your decision to make.

Best regards,
Lee

------------------
Lee Burnett, DO
www.osteopathic.com

 

[justwannabadoc]

Dr. Burnett,

I'm still unclear about the match process. I want to go into ortho and hopefully I'll get there (I'll be starting first year in fall 1999). I think it's the AOA internship that is confusing me. If I want to go into ortho, do I apply directly for an AOA ortho program (like ACGME)? If so, is the 1st year a rotating general surgery internship as in ACGME programs? Or, do I do a rotating (non-surgical) internship and then apply for an ortho program? As far as I know, this is only done in AOA residencies (apply for internship and then match for specialty residency). Please clarify. I don't see how you can go through an AOA internship match and an ACGME residency match at the same time. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by justwannabadoc (edited 02-14-99).]

 

[Deb]

Justwannabadoc

This subject can be somewhat confusing. The reason being that different
specialties have different requirements and different programs within
specialties may even have different requirements. There is no easy
answer to your question. The best thing for you to do is to buy a good
book on the subject. There are many and they can be found in any med
school book store. The book I have was very helpful. The title is "The
Definitive Guide For The DO Seeking An MD Residency". The author is
Jeremy Weiss DO and his e-mail address is [email protected]. The book
costs about $30.

[This message has been edited by Deb (edited 02-14-99).]

 

[Jack DOe]

prefontaine,

I am currently in medical school. The official word from The National Matching Services Inc. is as follows:

Release from Match Obligation

Release from match commitments and the mutually agreed upon contractual obligations of either party can only be achieved through a written release by mutual consent, which is generally done by both parties signing the appropriate release section on the intern contract. The contract is a binding legal document between the institution and the student, which may have legal ramifications if either party breaches the contract.

 

[Kermit817]

Also, can we take part in both matches?/QUOTE]

Taken straight from the National Resident Match Program website:

Applicants who participate in the American Osteopathic Association (AOA) Match are prohibited from participating in the NRMP Match for concurrent NRMP positions. The earlier schedule of the AOA Match allows applicants to compete for an osteopathic position and, if unsuccessful, continue to participate in the NRMP. The AOA informs the NRMP of the dual participants who have matched into an osteopathic program, and those individuals are withdrawn automatically from the NRMP Match for concurrent year PGY-1 and PGY-2 positions.

 

[osli]

Wow... just 8 1/2 years late on the response!

 

[Smackey]

How do you even find an 8 year old post?

 

[group_theory]

Man, I was still in high school when this thread was started.

 

[abyshaky]

so basically..u either choose what u want..MD or DO spots before ne of the matches start and apply..and u either apply to one or the other? is that how it works? cuz this sh** is confusing..im still applying to medical schools..im pretty sure im gonna get in somewhere however its just i really want to go into surgery i know its too early to think about that but i like to set goals..so ne way say i want to do surgery..and id love to have an allopathic residency in surgery..but i also dont care if its DO either..so basically the best bet is if i do go to an osteopathic school..i either have to see if im competitive..and if i am then take my chacnes with an allopathic..but NOT do an AOA match..or do an AOA match and not an MD (to avoid al lthis legal crap)? if thats wrong then lol im just gonna go to business school lol

 

[RockfordWF]

Does anyone know where I can get match results, both allopathic and osteopathic? I am trying to find out which DO and MD residency programs DO graduates have gotten into in the past few years. I recall someone posting a journal that gives this information but I forgot to write it down. Also, can we take part in both matches? I've read in osteopathic.net that you can't normally because of legal issues. However, I've also read that this is a benefit of going the DO track.

If you want to see which MD residency programs take DO programs, just go to the website of several programs of interest and look at their list of current residents.

 

[Taus]

so basically..u either choose what u want..MD or DO spots before ne of the matches start and apply..and u either apply to one or the other? is that how it works? cuz this sh** is confusing..im still applying to medical schools..im pretty sure im gonna get in somewhere however its just i really want to go into surgery i know its too early to think about that but i like to set goals..so ne way say i want to do surgery..and id love to have an allopathic residency in surgery..but i also dont care if its DO either..so basically the best bet is if i do go to an osteopathic school..i either have to see if im competitive..and if i am then take my chacnes with an allopathic..but NOT do an AOA match..or do an AOA match and not an MD (to avoid al lthis legal crap)? if thats wrong then lol im just gonna go to business school lol

The DO match is a month earlier then the MD match....so under the current system you could:

1) apply to DO programs only

2) apply to DO and MD programs, knowing that if you match into a DO program you will be going to that program as you will be pulled out of the MD match once you match DO.

3) apply to MD programs only and if you don't match you can hope and pray that there is a remaining DO program that didn't fill the previous month so you can try to "scramble" into it.

a safe way to go if you are a reasonably competitive candidate would be to evaluate how satisfied you would be w/ certain DO programs...apply to only the ones you'd be happy to go to.....while also applying to MD programs so if you don't match through the DO match you still have the shot at MD programs

hope that helps

 

[SomeDoc]

Haha... the OP has probably gotten into medical school, graduated, and is in a residency by now. 1999...I was a youngin' ...

 

[BMW19]

While we are refreshing this topic from before the turn of the millenium! Can anyone comment on how the actual DO match works. Do you apply to as many programs as you want then get interviews. After the interviews you rank your top 5 or something? Then they rank you etc......anyone care to elaborate


BMW-

 

[abyshaky]

awesome TAUS thanks so much for that! that really helped!