Residency Program Questions

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Bump.

Anyone care to share some thoughts on summer experience in the field you're considering?

Do you think there is a preference for participating in research in the area vs. clinical experience in private practice? I believe it depends on the specialty...so for clarity I'm interested in considerations regarding therio. I think it will be easier for me to find work with an ACT in private practice since I have done zero research in my life (and I don't see myself being much of a research person hehe), but if research is a really good idea, I will do what I can...

I'm getting into my neurotic searching/planning phase for the summer.
 
Caia said:
Bump.

Anyone care to share some thoughts on summer experience in the field you're considering?

Do you think there is a preference for participating in research in the area vs. clinical experience in private practice? I believe it depends on the specialty...so for clarity I'm interested in considerations regarding therio. I think it will be easier for me to find work with an ACT in private practice since I have done zero research in my life (and I don't see myself being much of a research person hehe), but if research is a really good idea, I will do what I can...

I'm getting into my neurotic searching/planning phase for the summer.
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I don't think there is a strong preference. If you aren't much interested in research, go clinical. Publications are always nice for an application but I don't think they'll ding you for it. More important is making connections with people, especially those at residency programs, and getting some solid experience to show that you know what you're getting into/dedication to the field, etc.
 
Bumping this because I've seen or read some things about scrambling into open positions in Allo and was curious how that works in vet med. It seems as though VIRMP does have an open program search. Does anyone know how exactly it works?
 
Caia said:
Bumping this because I've seen or read some things about scrambling into open positions in Allo and was curious how that works in vet med. It seems as though VIRMP does have an open program search. Does anyone know how exactly it works?
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I do, unfortunately 😉

On match day, you log into your account and it tells you that you didn't match. You can search open programs but just clicking a tab on the side bar (the same it is the whole time pre-match) and it tells you available programs in the same format as when you were looking at programs pre-match. You contact them and go from there.

For lab animal at least, it doesn't seem to be time sensitive like it is in the human med world. I emailed them right away and most didn't get back to me until a day or two later.
 
And if you didn't apply through match (so you don't have an account) the open positions available become public but there is a lag (if you had an account and applied you see them...a month?.. before the public)
 
that redhead said:
I do, unfortunately 😉

On match day, you log into your account and it tells you that you didn't match. You can search open programs but just clicking a tab on the side bar (the same it is the whole time pre-match) and it tells you available programs in the same format as when you were looking at programs pre-match. You contact them and go from there.

For lab animal at least, it doesn't seem to be time sensitive like it is in the human med world. I emailed them right away and most didn't get back to me until a day or two later.
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i believe for SA rotating at least, it is time sensitive - my impression is that there is tons of emailing and calling that goes on between unmatchers and unmatchees. i suspect they are a little more critical for residencies since its a bigger time and "life" commitment on everyone's part
 
Wow...I forgot about this thread. Who woulda thought i'd end up being one....
 
shortnsweet said:
Wow...I forgot about this thread. Who woulda thought i'd end up being one....
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If you don't mind sharing, what residency did you end up doing?

I've heard that residencies get more competitive each year. Is that true? If so, is it a waste of time to try to get into one straight out of school? Is it better to do a rotating or specialty internship first? And does anyone have any more thoughts on whether to practice first? I talked to a traveling surgeon in my old city recently, and she was adamant about going straight into specialty. She made it sound like it was career suicide to practice first and then apply for internships/residencies, at least in surgery, anyway. Is that true?

I'm curious about ophtho, ECC, and small animal IM. May still be interested in surgery, though the residents at the hospital I worked at did a million TPLOs, and the thought of having to do TPLOs all the time as a resident and then as a surgeon makes me want to gouge my eyes out...
 
missdarjeeling said:
If you don't mind sharing, what residency did you end up doing?

I've heard that residencies get more competitive each year. Is that true? If so, is it a waste of time to try to get into one straight out of school? Is it better to do a rotating or specialty internship first? And does anyone have any more thoughts on whether to practice first? I talked to a traveling surgeon in my old city recently, and she was adamant about going straight into specialty. She made it sound like it was career suicide to practice first and then apply for internships/residencies, at least in surgery, anyway. Is that true?

I'm curious about ophtho, ECC, and small animal IM. May still be interested in surgery, though the residents at the hospital I worked at did a million TPLOs, and the thought of having to do TPLOs all the time as a resident and then as a surgeon makes me want to gouge my eyes out...
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-as previously noted, most residency programs require a rotating internship (or the practice equivalent - which i think sums up to a few years in practice) prior to application

-specialty internships are becoming a more "popular" way to be more competitive for a residency position, but they also all someone to really figure out if they want to do a residency in a certain field

-the general consensus is that if you really want to specialize, you'll do it straight out of school because financially and socially/emotionally it is very difficult to go from a more comfortable lifestyle to a more grueling one. does that mean no one ever specializes after practicing for awhile? no way! there are plenty of people that went back for a residency. i find the advice to be mildly humorous actually, because i can count up quite a few current residents and specialists that went back and are just brilliant and lovely people.

-ophtho is probably the most competitive of the 4 you listed (followed by surgery) simply because there are very few spots. ECC, IM, and Sx all have multiple private practice residency spots in addition to the academic ones. not sure if there are PP ophtho residencies, but they are very few if they do exist.

-i wouldnt blow off surgery because you dont like a specific procedure. in academia, surgery is pretty divided into those who like ortho and those who like soft tissue procedures (they are boarded and able to do it all, but they choose to focus). my limited experience with PP surgeons is similar, although they all dabbled in everything even if they primarily did mostly one thing.

and lastly to everyone, remember that what you love today may not be what you love at the end of vet school. or at the end of your internship. or after you've been in practice for a few years. a very talented and brilliant 3rd year resident told me recently that you never know where life will take you! you are allowed to change your mind. you are allowed to fall in love with something else. no one ever thinks it will be them (i fall into a particularly stubborn camp and suddenly ive found my world kind of tipped on its axis...), but it really just might be you who changes their mind.
 
missdarjeeling said:
If you don't mind sharing, what residency did you end up doing?

I've heard that residencies get more competitive each year. Is that true? If so, is it a waste of time to try to get into one straight out of school? Is it better to do a rotating or specialty internship first? And does anyone have any more thoughts on whether to practice first? I talked to a traveling surgeon in my old city recently, and she was adamant about going straight into specialty. She made it sound like it was career suicide to practice first and then apply for internships/residencies, at least in surgery, anyway. Is that true?

I'm curious about ophtho, ECC, and small animal IM. May still be interested in surgery, though the residents at the hospital I worked at did a million TPLOs, and the thought of having to do TPLOs all the time as a resident and then as a surgeon makes me want to gouge my eyes out...
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equine IM
 
jmo1012 said:
-as previously noted, most residency programs require a rotating internship (or the practice equivalent - which i think sums up to a few years in practice) prior to application

-specialty internships are becoming a more "popular" way to be more competitive for a residency position, but they also all someone to really figure out if they want to do a residency in a certain field
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I'd be interested in a rotating internship regardless. Got to see 3 intern classes at different points, and the difference between the way they were at the beginning and the end was enough to convince me it's a great experience.

jmo1012 said:
-the general consensus is that if you really want to specialize, you'll do it straight out of school because financially and socially/emotionally it is very difficult to go from a more comfortable lifestyle to a more grueling one. does that mean no one ever specializes after practicing for awhile? no way! there are plenty of people that went back for a residency. i find the advice to be mildly humorous actually, because i can count up quite a few current residents and specialists that went back and are just brilliant and lovely people.
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Yeah, the practical considerations weigh heavily on people making that choice. It just surprised me to hear that surgeon be so forceful in recommending against practicing first, so I'm glad to hear that it's not as crazy as she made it sound. At my hospital, we did have two IM residents who had been in practice before going into a specialty, and one of them had been practicing for over 10 years!

jmo1012 said:
-ophtho is probably the most competitive of the 4 you listed (followed by surgery) simply because there are very few spots. ECC, IM, and Sx all have multiple private practice residency spots in addition to the academic ones. not sure if there are PP ophtho residencies, but they are very few if they do exist.
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I haven't exactly looked very often, but the only ones I've ever seen were in academia. Do you know if private practices do ophtho externships or summer internships?

jmo1012 said:
-i wouldnt blow off surgery because you dont like a specific procedure. in academia, surgery is pretty divided into those who like ortho and those who like soft tissue procedures (they are boarded and able to do it all, but they choose to focus). my limited experience with PP surgeons is similar, although they all dabbled in everything even if they primarily did mostly one thing.
Click to expand...

Hm, thanks, that's good to know. I haven't completely written it off, especially since I've only ever observed/assisted. The residents I worked with made it seem like most small animal surgery positions are TPLO Funfest Extravaganza, though the last one wasn't exactly the most friendly and helpful person. Been secretly hoping they're wrong because soft tissue has seemed more interesting to me. 🙂

jmo1012 said:
and lastly to everyone, remember that what you love today may not be what you love at the end of vet school. or at the end of your internship. or after you've been in practice for a few years. a very talented and brilliant 3rd year resident told me recently that you never know where life will take you! you are allowed to change your mind. you are allowed to fall in love with something else. no one ever thinks it will be them (i fall into a particularly stubborn camp and suddenly ive found my world kind of tipped on its axis...), but it really just might be you who changes their mind.
Click to expand...

Great advice. Along those lines, a shelter vet told me that if you're bored in this profession, it's your fault because there's so much out there to do, and you never know which direction you might end up going.
 
missdarjeeling said:
Thanks for the info. I'd be interested in a rotating internship regardless. Got to see 3 intern classes at different points, and the difference between the way they were at the beginning and the end was enough to convince me it's a great experience.
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-its not for everyone. there are good programs and bad ones. there are good jobs and bad ones. :shrug: i have waited many years to become an intern haha
Yeah, the practical considerations weigh heavily on people making that choice. It just surprised me to hear that surgeon be so forceful in recommending against practicing first, so I'm glad to hear that it's not as crazy as she made it sound. At my hospital, we did have two IM residents who had been in practice before going into a specialty, and one of them had been practicing for over 10 years!
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-i think the reality is that a majority of the people that think they'd go back and specialize dont. life happens. they start paying off loans and being able to afford eating more than ramen noodles. they have families and either cant move, dont want to lose a significant amount of their family time, cant afford to give up that extra salary, etc. do people go back and specialize? absolutely. there is no mandate saying you cant or wont be competitive, but the reality is that most people who go into private practice dont look back to that crummy lifestyle.

I haven't exactly looked very often, but the only ones I've ever seen were in academia. Do you know if private practices do ophtho externships or summer internships?
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-i believe the private practice i'm going to offers and ophtho internship, so yes. summer internships dont exist in the field of medicine. the word internship means an individual with a medical degree (DVM, MD, etc) and they are typically a year long program. you could go to the ACVO conference or do CE stuff on the side though

edit - we do indeed have an ophtho intern, however, it does not appear that ophtho has a specific internship category on VIRMP so you'd have to do a lot more legwork to find a spot potentially

Hm, thanks, that's good to know. I haven't completely written it off, especially since I've only ever observed/assisted. The residents I worked with made it seem like most small animal surgery positions are TPLO Funfest Extravaganza, though the last one wasn't exactly the most friendly and helpful person. Been secretly hoping they're wrong because soft tissue has seemed more interesting to me. 🙂
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-life is definitely not a TPLO funfest extravaganza at NCSU for the residents. but thats just one program (and presumably you'd interview at, and speak with the residents at programs you're interested in to find out whats normal for that practice)

Great advice. Along those lines, a shelter vet told me that if you're bored in this profession, it's your fault because there's so much out there to do, and you never know which direction you might end up going.
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-saying it's "your fault" might be a little harsh because sometimes life just doesnt allow for changes (cant move because of personal reasons, cant afford to change careers because of loans, etc), but yes, generally there are many, many options for a DVM degree which is part of what makes this field so exciting and fantastic!
 
Even some residencies that don't require an internship consider it "highly valued" and it seems like it is becoming the unofficial standard. I'm mainly talking about clinical pathology. I (unsuccessfully) applied for residencies straight out of school this year and every place told me my application was awesome but they chose an applicant who had done a rotating internship. It used to be possible to get one without an internship but the pathologists where I go to vet school told me 7 of the 8 applicants they seriously considered and interviewed had done internships this year. Luckily clin path isn't in the match and they gave me a heads up before the match deadline and I was able to match for an internship. I'll try clin path again next year.
 
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Are there any current zoo med students that can testify to the difficulty of getting an internship/residency right after their 4th year?

I currently work at a speciality animal hospital and spoke with two interns of the intern class who had a zoo med "track" but couldn't land a zoo internship 🙁 so just wanted to see how common that is?
 
Swongy said:
Are there any current zoo med students that can testify to the difficulty of getting an internship/residency right after their 4th year?

I currently work at a speciality animal hospital and spoke with two interns of the intern class who had a zoo med "track" but couldn't land a zoo internship 🙁 so just wanted to see how common that is?
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My friend is amazing and has not been successful matching despite doing a great rotating internship, er work for a year, and then a phenomenal university exotics internship. Not sure what her plans are,for next year, but she is an incredible doctor who really does deserve a residency spot, and I really really hope next year is her year!
 
I'm still debating the internship/residency thing or just going into GP work. I was going to go for an internship but I can't afford to put loans into forbearance and watching the interest increase even more is already making me sad.
 
jmo1012 said:
My friend is amazing and has not been successful matching despite doing a great rotating internship, er work for a year, and then a phenomenal university exotics internship. Not sure what her plans are,for next year, but she is an incredible doctor who really does deserve a residency spot, and I really really hope next year is her year!
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Zoo is a hyper-competitive specialty. From the practitioners I worked with prior to vet school, it appears that a lot of that game is networking in-field. It's who you know as much (if not more) than what you know. Networking is the key to success in any field, but in the more niche vet med specialties I'd argue that it carries even grater weight. Jmo, it sounds like your friend has done everything she needs to do to land herself the training opportunity of her dreams. That's really tough. I wish her the best.
 
Swongy said:
Are there any current zoo med students that can testify to the difficulty of getting an internship/residency right after their 4th year?

I currently work at a speciality animal hospital and spoke with two interns of the intern class who had a zoo med "track" but couldn't land a zoo internship 🙁 so just wanted to see how common that is?
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Tracking in a program prior to graduation isn't going to make or break your opportunities for specialty training after vet school, Swongy. The track will permit you to take a few specialized selectives that you may/may not have in a program that doesn't track, but that's about it. You need to use your summers and elective rotations wisely to network in your field of choice. If you're seriously interested in zoo (keeping your eyes open, of course, as to how tough a specialty this is to break into), I'd argue for selecting an institution that has, on staff, recognized faculty within this area. These folks may not give you a job while you're in school, but they can hook you up with names to secure your own experience. Vet school is a lot like 'choose your own adventure,' except no-one is going to do it for you. If you want it, you can make it happen- but that road is all on you. You need to take the bull by the horns, buck up for some rejection (I applied to 10 programs this summer, some paid/some unpaid, and got 1), and be flexible as to what your opinion of your 'dream' job actually is. Bear in mind that vet school will expand your perspective as to many other specialties that are out there, some of which you haven't even heard of or considered. This has happened to me, and I'm only finishing my first year. Lab Animal is still my favorite at this stage, but I love the problem solving of internal medicine and path. It will be interesting to see where I, and my classmates, end up in 4 years. Keep your head down and focus on becoming a good general practitioner during school. Solid basics will make a fantastic DVM, no matter what you choose to do. The specialty training will come later.
 
Swongy said:
Are there any current zoo med students that can testify to the difficulty of getting an internship/residency right after their 4th year?

I currently work at a speciality animal hospital and spoke with two interns of the intern class who had a zoo med "track" but couldn't land a zoo internship 🙁 so just wanted to see how common that is?
Click to expand...

Very common, unfortunately 🙁. One of my classmate's has a ton of zoo med experience, has been to multiple zoo conferences, etc. He ranked 19 zoo internship programs and didn't match. Ended up going through the scramble and now he's doing a SA rotating internship before reapplying to zoo internships.
 
wow, thanks guys for the response! That just gave me a sad outlook on my future. But, @Lab Vet is right! I am also interested in surgery (another difficult field), but I am keeping my options opened of course. So, I guess it's the perfect mix of grades, experience and the networking?

I know one vet who I worked with for awhile had a glamorous story- he was a C student in vet school, got a SA rotating internship and finally landed a residency at the Bronx Zoo 😵. Only if that could happen to all of us :arghh:
 
Here's my n= 1 zoo knowledge. One of my very smart friends applied for zoo internships while doing her small animal rotating internship in academia this year... Didn't match
 
Swongy said:
wow, thanks guys for the response! That just gave me a sad outlook on my future. But, @Lab Vet is right! I am also interested in surgery (another difficult field), but I am keeping my options opened of course. So, I guess it's the perfect mix of grades, experience and the networking?

I know one vet who I worked with for awhile had a glamorous story- he was a C student in vet school, got a SA rotating internship and finally landed a residency at the Bronx Zoo 😵. Only if that could happen to all of us :arghh:
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I would argue that networking is the most important out of all of those (not that you can have **** grades or no experience). ESPECIALLY in the smaller, more cliquey specialties like zoo med where everyone knows each other.
 
Do any of you know what the situation is like for non-traditional students applying for residencies? I'll be starting vet school this fall and I already have my heart set on being a pathologist. I'll probably go for clinical, but I haven't ruled out anatomic by any means.

My concern is that I'll be 49 by the time I graduate. Is my dream completely unrealistic or is it doable? I know it will take a lot of work and that financially it is an even worse decision for someone my age than for a student in their 20s, but I know I'll always regret it if I don't try. I guess my basic question is: Will my age eliminate me from consideration when it comes time to apply for residency positions?
 
Meadowlark said:
Do any of you know what the situation is like for non-traditional students applying for residencies? I'll be starting vet school this fall and I already have my heart set on being a pathologist. I'll probably go for clinical, but I haven't ruled out anatomic by any means.

My concern is that I'll be 49 by the time I graduate. Is my dream completely unrealistic or is it doable? I know it will take a lot of work and that financially it is an even worse decision for someone my age than for a student in their 20s, but I know I'll always regret it if I don't try. I guess my basic question is: Will my age eliminate me from consideration when it comes time to apply for residency positions?
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no. lots of residents have another career or vet career prior to residency. i dont think age is ever really a factor for anything in vet med.
 
Thank you @jmo1012. That's reassuring. I know there aren't any guarantees, of course, but if I'm going to take a lifetime poverty vow I would at least like to know there is a chance that I'll get to do what I want!
 
Bumping a bit as I saw some people talking about grade inflation earlier in this thread.

Is grade inflation really a "pandemic" at some vet schools? At all prevalent? Are some vet schools notorious for NOT inflating grades and their graduating seniors suffer during the match for it?

No need to call out specific schools, but I was curious as grade inflation is such a hot topic among undergrad institutions...
 
sorasea said:
Bumping a bit as I saw some people talking about grade inflation earlier in this thread.

Is grade inflation really a "pandemic" at some vet schools? At all prevalent? Are some vet schools notorious for NOT inflating grades and their graduating seniors suffer during the match for it?

No need to call out specific schools, but I was curious as grade inflation is such a hot topic among undergrad institutions...
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There was no grade inflation to my knowledge at my school, at least when I was there. We'd get an occasional (read: rare) curve, but that's it.

Is it really a common thing? :shrug: I dunno.
 
sorasea said:
Bumping a bit as I saw some people talking about grade inflation earlier in this thread.

Is grade inflation really a "pandemic" at some vet schools? At all prevalent? Are some vet schools notorious for NOT inflating grades and their graduating seniors suffer during the match for it?

No need to call out specific schools, but I was curious as grade inflation is such a hot topic among undergrad institutions...
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I'm not aware of any grade inflation at OVC. It won't hurt students applying to internships/residencies through VIRMP because you have to provide your class rank along with your GPA, and I believe institutions primarily look at class rank when evaluating candidates (someone correct me if I'm wrong!).
 
I'm sure this is somewhere else on the site but does anyone know what the average salary is for a board certified specialist after residency? It's hard to pin down an answer on it. Just want to know if I can pay off loans after 4 years of making $30000 a year as an intern/resident.
 
Mrow123 said:
I'm sure this is somewhere else on the site but does anyone know what the average salary is for a board certified specialist after residency? It's hard to pin down an answer on it. Just want to know if I can pay off loans after 4 years of making $30000 a year as an intern/resident.
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Board certified in what?

If you are expecting to ever make over $175k a year as a vet, I have bad news...
 
sorasea said:
Bumping a bit as I saw some people talking about grade inflation earlier in this thread.

Is grade inflation really a "pandemic" at some vet schools? At all prevalent? Are some vet schools notorious for NOT inflating grades and their graduating seniors suffer during the match for it?

No need to call out specific schools, but I was curious as grade inflation is such a hot topic among undergrad institutions...
Click to expand...

The only reason there was "grade inflation" at Glasgow was because we had to convert to North American equivalency. So I have a GPA in Scotland and a GPA here. My GPA was by no means stellar, but solid. Didn't seem to hurt my chances.
 
sorasea said:
Bumping a bit as I saw some people talking about grade inflation earlier in this thread.

Is grade inflation really a "pandemic" at some vet schools? At all prevalent? Are some vet schools notorious for NOT inflating grades and their graduating seniors suffer during the match for it?

No need to call out specific schools, but I was curious as grade inflation is such a hot topic among undergrad institutions...
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i've been told that people are looking more closely at class rank these days instead of GPA :shrug:

and there is no "average" salary. it varies greatly between specialties, where you are, private vs academia, etc
 
Mrow123 said:
I'm sure this is somewhere else on the site but does anyone know what the average salary is for a board certified specialist after residency? It's hard to pin down an answer on it. Just want to know if I can pay off loans after 4 years of making $30000 a year as an intern/resident.
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In academia/teaching hospitals? 80-90k starting, up to 120k+ or so with time. Depending on state and city, of course.

Industry (not applicable to all specialties) sometimes more. Unsure about specialty referral centers - probably variable.
 
Thank you!! That's what I was thinking but wanted to make sure
 
If you want more details- you can always look up the salaries of specialists at the state school/teaching hospital online. State employee salaries are public knowledge. That's how I found out 🙂
 
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