Residency Question

[EM2009]

Hey All,
I am a 4th year soon to be entering the match this year. My home program is cincinnati, and I just found out that they have had three residents leave in the last three years (One per year). For the more senior posters here; is that something that would give you pause when making your rank list, or would you just chalk it up to bad luck/circumstances? Also, is this a normal loss rate for most EM programs?

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[roja]

Pause, yes.


Complete elimination? no. its your home institution, surely you can get a vibe for what is going on.

 

[dlung]

People leave for different reasons... some worrisome... some not... you'll just have to ask for yourself on the interview day (a very fair question)...

 

[mikecwru]

Hey All,
I am a 4th year soon to be entering the match this year. My home program is cincinnati, and I just found out that they have had three residents leave in the last three years (One per year). For the more senior posters here; is that something that would give you pause when making your rank list, or would you just chalk it up to bad luck/circumstances? Also, is this a normal loss rate for most EM programs?

It depends why they left. We lost two people recently, one due to personal issues over breaking up with the person she couples' matched with and another because of "hacking it" problems and switching to a less demanding specialty; neither of which I thinks reflects poorly on my program... sometimes it's just bad luck.

Cinci is an outstanding program; I would consider it highly.

mike

 

[EM2009]

Just wanted to fill any of you in if you are planning on ranking cinci highly. They just lost a 4th resident, and I hear a 5th is in the works.

I'm sure this happens at other places, but it stinks that we are ranking places that have many skeletons in the closet that they dont show.

 

[streetdoc]

Just wanted to fill any of you in if you are planning on ranking cinci highly. They just lost a 4th resident, and I hear a 5th is in the works.

I'm sure this happens at other places, but it stinks that we are ranking places that have many skeletons in the closet that they dont show.

Anyone else think this could be a ploy to make people re-think their list? Cinci sure looks competitive this year-pulling out all the stops maybe? that would be LOW. Any residents to confirm/deny this?
streetdoc

 

[EM2009]

Think what you may. Firstly, I am only interested in 3 year programs. Secondly, if you dont believe me, I encourage you to call the PD and ask point blank how many residents have left or been fired in the last 3 years. No matter how it is spun, any number quoted that is less than 5 is an outright lie. But dont take my word for it, find out for yourself.

 

[Cal2Lane]

I didn't even apply to Cinci and your post looks a little odd. 'EM2009' that is also a fourth year med student (I was no math major . . ); But many programs have people that leave whether it is for personal, family, or emergency circumstances. Perhaps in warning your fellow SDNers you could find out why these people are actually leaving.

 

[SolidGold]

Just wanted to fill any of you in if you are planning on ranking cinci highly. They just lost a 4th resident, and I hear a 5th is in the works.

I'm sure this happens at other places, but it stinks that we are ranking places that have many skeletons in the closet that they dont show.

I'm quite familiar with the program and I know that this isn't true. There was one PGY-1 last year who decided to switch to anesthesiology, but they filled that subsequent PGY-2 spot with a resident who transferred into Cinci's program from University of Chicago.

 

[SolidGold]

Think what you may. Firstly, I am only interested in 3 year programs. Secondly, if you dont believe me, I encourage you to call the PD and ask point blank how many residents have left or been fired in the last 3 years. No matter how it is spun, any number quoted that is less than 5 is an outright lie. But dont take my word for it, find out for yourself.

Yeah, looks like a ploy simply because this is your 4th post here and nobody else who is familiar with the program mentioned anything like this. Give us proof.

I also know for a fact that they usually don't take more than one person from their own medical school in order to keep the group diverse. Do you feel like you might not be that one person who stays?

I don't want to sound like I know everything about Cinci, but even if what you are saying is true, it's not going to change how I rank it.

 

[Dr. Will]

I was just in Cinci for a second look yesterday and there was NO indication that something like this was happening. There is a 3rd year who posts on SDN...I'm sure he may have more info on this.

 

[BellKicker]

Pre-match nerves, anyone?

 

[Hard24Get]

I don't know guys, it might be true - I called there to speak to the PD the other day, and a resident picked up the phone and whispered,
"Don't rank this program, no matter what you do. They - aieeeeeeeeee!"

That resident was the 5th one to disappear

Believe what you will, but I ain't ranking Cinci, and I suggest you do the same!

 

[EM2009]

Ok everyone Just trying to help. Dont shoot the messenger. Its sad that we are so competetive that you jump all over me and accuse me for sabotage when I am trying to help people make informed decisions.

 

[aliraja]

I was just in Cinci for a second look yesterday and there was NO indication that something like this was happening. There is a 3rd year who posts on SDN...I'm sure he may have more info on this.

Hey guys - sorry about the delay. I was working until a couple of hours ago and then slogged through the slush-fest that is Cincinnati right now before hearing about this thread. Man - news travel fast!

First of all, it's impressive that you've gotten “Artichoke” to give out her cell phone number. If you have questions for her, use it. You can also e-mail me (it's pretty obvious to anyone that's been to our webpage who I am) for a resident’s perspective.

EM2009 is absolutely right – 5 residents have left our program over the past 4 years. Since the details are important and not at all secret, here they are:

3 years ago, someone was dismissed within a month of starting for lying on their app. Suffice it to say that they checked up on the “Middle School Math Club Vice-President” line on my CV the following year.

One of the folks in my intern class decided during that year that she loved critical care and transferred to the only EM/IM/CCM residency out there with our blessing.

Last year one of the interns left to do anesthesiology in Columbus. He just didn’t like EM but he left with our support and I’ve heard that he has nothing but great things to say about the program despite the fact that EM wasn’t for him. As mentioned above, one of the UChicago folks took his place.

Lots of people who interviewed this year had heard about those 3 folks… and we were specifically told (not that we had to be) to be completely honest and forthright about them. We want applicants to know everything about the place… there shouldn’t be any skeletons in our closet.

The last two departures happened within the last month. One of the second years (after a six-month remediation and lots of one-on-one time with attendings) just wasn’t a great fit for EM and was let go. It happens. We all know it takes a little something “special” (and not just short-bus special like me) to go into our specialty and they just didn’t have it. Good person… just not for this field. The last resident you heard about from Andra above was a little bit of a shock to all of us and his departure was announced just this morning. He’s a friend of mine and I can vouch for the fact that it’s the hospital and HR getting on him, not the program… we are all employees and if they think you’re unprofessional then they can fire you just like anyone else.

EM2009, we don’t have any skeletons in our closet and are definitely not trying to hide anything. The program is awesome and supportive and I think that everyone who interviewed here this year got a feel for all the opportunities we have here. I’m sorry that you think that we somehow let you down… PM me or just ask here if there’s anything I can answer for you to help clarify things.

A

 

[seldomseen]

As a fourth year who interviewed at Cinnci this year, I can say that they were quite open about the residents who have left in the past. Like many others on SDN, I was VERY impressed with the program, the residents, the PD, and all the opportunities they have.

Just my two cents...

 

[StudentDoc327]

Dont shoot the messenger.

Looks like the OP was right. All he said was 5 people left in 4 years. I don't know why everybody was so quick to jump on him and insinuate he was trying to free up a spot for himself. If I applied to Cinci I would be worried about this as well because it seems like a large number compared to other programs. At least now all the people who are ranking highly have an explanation.

 

[CalmDown]

Hey guys,

Another 4th year here from UC going into EM. Sorry about the new profile name, had to create a new one because my old one might give me away and I don’t want it to look like I am kissing you know what before the match. I peruse the forums occasionally, but don't post much because there is rarely a topic which gets me going enough to take the time to write something. Anyways, I saw this thread and felt compelled to reply.

I hadn't heard anything about losing residents and such, and I really don't care to comment on it anyways because I am uninformed about it. I just want to tell all of you out there reading this that the people at Cincinnati are exceptional. I know UC is famous for their research/academics, etc. but they are great people all-around. There are roughly 12-14 of us matching into EM this year and they have gone out of their way to help us achieve our goals. Whether it was teaching in the department, writing letters, inviting us to conferences/dinners, helping us to make contacts at other programs, career advice, etc. - they have been eager to help us in any way that they can. Realistically, only maybe 1 or 2 of us will stay... this means that they are expending all of their energy for a group of people that will not even end up training with them. I have nothing but good things to say about how I have been treated as a student.

I don't doubt for a minute that the faculty would go the extra mile to help a struggling resident. I have worked clinical shifts with both the chairman and the PD – and I can tell you that they are down-to-earth, caring individuals as well as good teachers. I have not worked with a single faculty member or resident that I felt was inadequate or that I didn’t get along with. All have been excellent teachers and great with students. I have to tell you that I was particularly struck by how kind the chairman was with his patients. Dr. Gibler is a big name in the EM circle, but doesn’t act as though he is too important to do the small things that may make life a little easier for his patients. Anytime you have a leader with these qualities, I really think it sets the tone for the department.
Dr. Blomkalns is excellent as well, and I would feel extremely confident in allowing her to guide my residency training.

Furthermore, after rotating through UC hospital for a couple of years, I would assert that the EM residents have been some of the best teachers I have had. Even on off-service rotations, I often learned more from them than the categorical residents because of their knowledge and approachability. In fact, I am considering UC along with a couple of other programs (other non-EM training variables playing a role) and the one thing that really makes me want to stay is the relationship that the 4th year residents have in teaching the interns. This is key for me because I think the current class of 3rd years kick a$$, and would love to work with them. Great group of guys (and girl)… I am familiar with most of them and can’t imagine who it would be that was having some difficulties. My sympathies go out to this individual, whoever it may be, and I hope that things work out for the best.

Anyways, sorry I can’t validate my status as a UC student, just thought it would be better to post anonymously. PM me if you have questions and best of luck in the match.

 

[SolidGold]

Ok, i'll be man enough to apologize EM2009. I think all we needed was details, and not just a couple of lines saying 5 people left the program. Thanks to all who have explained the situation, including Artichoke .

 

[Dr. Will]

Thanks for the clarifications! Either way, it wouldn't have affected how I feel about the program.

 

[deleted109597]

+1

 

[Dr_Nick_Riviera]

Hey all,

I am another 4th year student matching into EM from U of Cincinnati. I just wanted to echo the post by "CalmDown" which was on the money. I'm also not big into posting on here, but I felt I had to this time.

In reply to what EM2009 said: "I'm sure this happens at other places, but it stinks that we are ranking places that have many skeletons in the closet that they dont show." I have to disagree with the implication that Cinci has a bunch of hidden skeletons. I've been around too long and spent too many hours with these people to be missing some huge badness.

The faculty at Cincinnati has been incredibly supportive of all of us (medical students) matching into EM, so I imagine their support and guidance for their residents is even greater. Cinci is a phenomenal place to train. Don't let a forum on the internet throw you a curve ball. I appreciate that the question was a valid one to bring up, and hopefully the multiple responses will put you at ease. There are many great places to train at and Cinci is definitely one of them. Good luck to you all.

 

[pushinepi2]

Hey guys - sorry about the delay. I was working until a couple of hours ago and then slogged through the slush-fest that is Cincinnati right now before hearing about this thread. Man - news travel fast!


EM2009 is absolutely right – 5 residents have left our program over the past 4 years. Since the details are important and not at all secret, here they are:

EM2009, we don’t have any skeletons in our closet and are definitely not trying to hide anything. The program is awesome and supportive and I think that everyone who interviewed here this year got a feel for all the opportunities we have here. I’m sorry that you think that we somehow let you down… PM me or just ask here if there’s anything I can answer for you to help clarify things.

A

Even though its too late for me to match at Cinci, I just wanted to compliment you on a most excellent, succinct, and honest reply. Just goes to show you that talking to people, "in the know" can make all the difference. Kudos for keeping the EM forum a reliable source of info.

-Push

 

[aliraja]

Even though its too late for me to match at Cinci, I just wanted to compliment you on a most excellent, succinct, and honest reply. Just goes to show you that talking to people, "in the know" can make all the difference. Kudos for keeping the EM forum a reliable source of info.

-Push

Thanks. I just wanted to make sure that all the details got out.

I still can't believe she put her cell phone number on here...

 

[SolidGold]

I still can't believe she put her cell phone number on here...

I can't either. I hope she hasn't gotten a bunch of crank calls.