Residency rankings

[hye345]

This is my opinion of the competitiveness of each specialty. From most to least:

Neurosurgery
Dermatology
Radiology
Ophthamology
General surgery
Pathology
Emergency medicine
Neurology
Psychiatry
Internal medicine
Pediatrics
Family medicine

Am I right or wrong?

 

[Faebinder]

This is my opinion of the competitiveness of each specialty. From most to least:

Neurosurgery
Dermatology
Radiology
Ophthamology
General surgery
Pathology
Emergency medicine
Neurology
Psychiatry
Internal medicine
Pediatrics
Family medicine

Am I right or wrong?

Close... more like this...


Dermatology
Ophthalmology
Neurosurgery
General surgery Catagorical
Radiology
Emergency medicine
General Surg Prelim
Neurology = Internal medicine
Pathology = Psychiatry
Pediatrics = Family medicine

Of course someone will come and disagree... these are rough measures.... check nrmp to see how competitive they are.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Not that you asked, but Plastics should be at the top of the list (either Integrated or Independent programs - both extremely competitive).

Otherwise, I agree with Faebinder's ranking...

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Close... more like this...


Dermatology
Ophthalmology
Neurosurgery
General surgery Catagorical
Radiology
Emergency medicine
General Surg Prelim
Neurology = Internal medicine
Pathology = Psychiatry
Pediatrics = Family medicine

Of course someone will come and disagree... these are rough measures.... check nrmp to see how competitive they are.

General surgery? Come on. Everyone and his dog can get a gen surgery slot. I think getting a good general surgery slot is tougher than EM and maybe radiology, but not if we consider ALL slots. I would add ortho and ENT up there around Ophtho. I would put Rad-Onc and plastics up right behind Derm.

The truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter much which is most competitive. Hopefully no one picks a specialty based on how competitive it is, but rather on what they want to do with their life. Aside from Derm, I don't see any specialties where an average medical student cannot match given an appropriate level of hard work and an appropriate application strategy.

 

[EaglesPA]

It also depends on which particular programs you are applying to.
Although Internal Medicine overall might not be very competitive because of there large number of spots, it is very competitive to get a spot at the top medicine programs such as Hopkins, Brigham, MGH, UCSF, Penn etc...

 

[Bertelman]

What is the point of this discussion?

 

[deleted109597]

What is the point of this discussion?

Wasting time?
Seriously, who cares? Are you likely to not choose something based on the perceived competitiveness?

 

[Bertelman]

I just think there are two ways to go about this, and this is the less objective- each of us throwing out our own opinions based on what we have heard, read, etc.

An easy solution is to dig up the NRMP data on USMLE scores for each specialty. Like it or not, that largely determines the level of competition between fields. Or maybe try number of unfilled positions in the match, although that is linked to factors other than candidate quality.

Point is, this list will not change what I am interested in or what I choose. Which is, I guess, why I don't understand. I'm sure there are a hundred threads discussing the perceived competition of various specialties. I understand threads for venting, threads for sincere questions, etc. I just don't understand it when the same topic seems to pop up every month or so, espcially when there is no valuable outcome to the discussion. Say I was going into Plastics. After I see this thread am I going to feel better about myself? I shouldn't. If I were FP should I feel less competitive? I hope not.

There's a similar thread in Allo, I think, discussing perceived competition between Dental school, Med school, Vet school. Really, what difference does it make?

 

[Bertelman]

https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...version68.pdf&prd_id=159&prv_id=189&pdf_id=68

 

[Faebinder]

Kimberly is correct... Integrated Plastic Surgery is the #1 hardest spot to get in the country now.


Desperado... PGY-1 Cat Surg had only 1 open spot last year after the match and I believe 3 the year before... Radiology and ER had a lot more. Cat surg and Prelim surg are totally different games. Many applicants think surgery is easy to get into based on the prelim surg match and the fact that it used to be easy in the past before the 80 hour rule. Of course many later decide that the surgery life style is too much and end up switching out.

Otherwise... this list is useless... but might be useful to someone who wants to realize their limits based on USMLE scores... which pretty much all programs now a days use as a screener.

 

[mig26x]

general surgery over radiology? wow.

by the way, im going into IM, so no bias here!!!

 

[deleted113029]

PM&R #1. End of discussion.

 

[Samoa]

Integrated Plastics
Dermatology
Ophthalmology = Neurosurgery = Ortho surgery = ENT
Radiation Oncology
General surgery Categorical
Diagnostic Radiology
Emergency medicine
Neurology = Internal medicine
Pathology = Psychiatry
Pediatrics = Family medicine

Ophtho actually has a lower step average than neurosurg, with a similar % matched for US seniors. Neurosurg, ortho and ENT all require similar step scores and grades with experience in research and away rotations. Although I would guess that the top residencies in IM are as competitive as any of those.

I left out Gen surg prelim positions, because we left out all the other prelim positions as well, and I think we can all agree those are not competitive.

As for whether these lists are helpful, I think they are--at least in terms of career planning for 1st - 3rd years.

 

[Entei]

For people too lazy to read the NRMP publication that's been referenced 1000+ times on SDN, here are the relevant graphs:

These are all for US seniors and do not include specialties that do not participate in the Match.

This next part of my post is directed at Desperado:

vs

vs

Which of these is the only one with more US senior applicants than positions?

Source: NRMP: Charting Outcomes in the Match

 

[fourthyearmed]

This is my opinion of the competitiveness of each specialty. From most to least:

Neurosurgery
Dermatology
Radiology
Ophthamology
General surgery
Pathology
Emergency medicine
Neurology
Psychiatry
Internal medicine
Pediatrics
Family medicine

Am I right or wrong?

ER is much more competitive than Pathology. I would actually place Pediatrics and Internal Medicine above Pathology and Psychiatry as well because even thought there are more spots avaiable in Peds and IM, the good ones are much more competitive than good Path or Psych spots.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

I think even talking about the relative competitiveness of certain specialties is bunk. FP, Peds, IM, Psych are all such that if you want to do them you will get a spot, therefore they are totally non-competitive.

Assuming you are a normal person without a huge blemish on your application it works like this:

you will almost certainly match in: Gas, EM, Path, Radiology, Gen Surg
you might not match in: Ortho, Ophtho, ENT
you probably should think hard about ranking other programs than only: Plastics, Derm

 

[Entei]

I think even talking about the relative competitiveness of certain specialties is bunk. FP, Peds, IM, Psych are all such that if you want to do them you will get a spot, therefore they are totally non-competitive.

Assuming you are a normal person without a huge blemish on your application it works like this:

you will almost certainly match in: Gas, EM, Path, Radiology, Gen Surg
you might not match in: Ortho, Ophtho, ENT
you probably should think hard about ranking other programs than only: Plastics, Derm

Why do people continue to post false information when they've got all the data right in front of them? The links are there. The graphs are there. What else do you need? We can't read it for you. 😕

 

[Faebinder]

Why do people continue to post false information when they've got all the data right in front of them? The links are there. The graphs are there. What else do you need? We can't read it for you. 😕

hhaahahah so true...

 

[trotter]

It is true that categorical gen surg has a greater US Senior Applicant:Available Position ratio than rads and EM.

However, it is ridiculous to only use this parameter when describing a specialty's competitive nature.

For example, if you look at board scores and AOA, the typical applicant in gen surg is not anywhere near the level of academic performance that is seen in rads.

It may be difficult for an applicant who is average/below average in the pool of gen surg applicants to land a great residency spot. However, if you take that same applicant and stick him in the radiology applicant pool, he's more than likely going to struggle to get into the lower tier community programs. Conversely, an average radiology applicant (230+ Step I, 1/4 chance of AOA) is not going to struggle too much to land a pretty solid position in surgery.

Additionally, gen surg has a much higher contingent of non-US senior applicants that apply and match. I'm not going to be foolish and say anything about the inherent qualities of these applicants (and I believe that no-one can objectively). However, I think it is at least pretty clear that for better or for worse being an FMG/IMG nearly automatically puts you behind the game in terms of being competitive for any US residency spots. This also says something about the competitiveness of gen surg.

Comparing the two applicant pools for these specialties is like comparing apples and oranges. You can't just look at applicant😛osition ratios.

All this crap being said, I suppose it doesn't really matter (other than for the time killing purposes of those who post on these boards). I know a bunch of bright folks that are going into peds, FP and IM. I know some who slacked pretty hard in med school but managed to snag spots in more competitive fields. And everyone wants to think that their specialty is more competitive than it probably is. Everything stated on here needs to be taken with a gigantic grain of salt.

 

[deleted109597]

Also, with gen surg you need to consider all of the ortho/optho/plastics guys who apply to that as a backup.

 

[Faebinder]

It is true that categorical gen surg has a greater US Senior Applicant:Available Position ratio than rads and EM.

However, it is ridiculous to only use this parameter when describing a specialty's competitive nature.

For example, if you look at board scores and AOA, the typical applicant in gen surg is not anywhere near the level of academic performance that is seen in rads.

It may be difficult for an applicant who is average/below average in the pool of gen surg applicants to land a great residency spot. However, if you take that same applicant and stick him in the radiology applicant pool, he's more than likely going to struggle to get into the lower tier community programs. Conversely, an average radiology applicant (230+ Step I, 1/4 chance of AOA) is not going to struggle too much to land a pretty solid position in surgery.

Additionally, gen surg has a much higher contingent of non-US senior applicants that apply and match. I'm not going to be foolish and say anything about the inherent qualities of these applicants (and I believe that no-one can objectively). However, I think it is at least pretty clear that for better or for worse being an FMG/IMG nearly automatically puts you behind the game in terms of being competitive for any US residency spots. This also says something about the competitiveness of gen surg.

Comparing the two applicant pools for these specialties is like comparing apples and oranges. You can't just look at applicant😛osition ratios.

All this crap being said, I suppose it doesn't really matter (other than for the time killing purposes of those who post on these boards). I know a bunch of bright folks that are going into peds, FP and IM. I know some who slacked pretty hard in med school but managed to snag spots in more competitive fields. And everyone wants to think that their specialty is more competitive than it probably is. Everything stated on here needs to be taken with a gigantic grain of salt.

And yet I disagree with you.. there are multiple reasons why there are many IMG/FMGs in surg compared to Radiology and ER. #1 reason is Lifestyle in surgery blows compared to the other two. #2 General Surgery pays less per hour of work. % of IMG/FMG is not a valid way to tell how competitive is a place although it is probably correlated just because of the advantage but the correlation is not 100% and therefore you can't just rely on that one factor.

I'll even take your argument and bust it... look at what Entei posted.. look at the second bar graph. The graph does NOT include IMGs/FMGs. Yet the percentage of people succeeding in getting general surgery is lower than that of Radiology. Is it that surprising? Speak with some of the surgery applicants... recently they really changed.

 

[surgical06]

i'm a gen surg applicant with scores that are higher than averages for any specialty, application is pretty good. however, it has not been as easy this aplication period for me as many people speculated. fact is , with the 80 hr work week, general surgery is more competitive. those that chose lifestyle over career in the past are returning to a more rewarding career. general surgery is one of the hardest residencies, if not the hardest (100% surgeon, part ER doc, part critical care doc/IM, part radiologist). my problem with the previous post is the lack of respect for those docs whom have the knowledge to save a life after that auto accident, 4 vessel disease, ect....

respectfully,
j

 

[trotter]

You're not really expanding your argument here.

And yet I disagree with you.. there are multiple reasons why there are many IMG/FMGs in surg compared to Radiology and ER. #1 reason is Lifestyle in surgery blows compared to the other two. #2 General Surgery pays less per hour of work./QUOTE)
% of IMG/FMG is not a valid way to tell how competitive is a place although it is probably correlated just because of the advantage but the correlation is not 100% and therefore you can't just rely on that one factor.

I'll even take your argument and bust it... look at what Entei posted.. look at the second bar graph. The graph does NOT include IMGs/FMGs. Yet the percentage of people succeeding in getting general surgery is lower than that of Radiology. Is it that surprising? Speak with some of the surgery applicants... recently they really changed.

Wouldn't you say that the two factors you listed above would make this specialty less desirable to all but those who truly and absolutely love surgey? The fact that many IMG/FMGs can get spots in surg but not certain other fields does say something. I agree, there isn't a 100% correltion and it isn't the only factor that is relevant, but that doesn't make it irrelevant.

You're not really busting my argument (if I was even making one before, it was really more of a point than an argument). It is clear from the bar graph that more surg applicants miss out on spots than radiology applicants. However, you're not really addressing my point that in general the surgery applicant pool is competing with less qualified medical students than those that constitute the radiology applicant pool. Regardless of how the AAMC data is analyzed, this statement is indisputable. Look at Step 1 scores and percent AOA. I'm saying that these factors are just as relevant, if not more so, to determining the competitiveness of these specialties than using the strictly the applicant/position ratios.

If you look at the data that's there, the best that can be concluded is that if you are the average applicant to gen surg, you will have a harder time getting a spot than if you are the average applicant to radiology. However, this is not an absolute difference in competition, it is relative.

By the way, I believe you that many people going into surgery are very talented. I think this is the case for all specialties. But we're describing overall trends in specialty applications here. I know several great students/people doing surg as well as path as well as rads etc.

 

[trotter]

i'm a gen surg applicant with scores that are higher than averages for any specialty, application is pretty good. however, it has not been as easy this aplication period for me as many people speculated. fact is , with the 80 hr work week, general surgery is more competitive. those that chose lifestyle over career in the past are returning to a more rewarding career. general surgery is one of the hardest residencies, if not the hardest (100% surgeon, part ER doc, part critical care doc/IM, part radiologist). my problem with the previous post is the lack of respect for those docs whom have the knowledge to save a life after that auto accident, 4 vessel disease, ect....

respectfully,
j

Okay, with all due respect, this post is a bit irrelevant to what's being discussed here.

You may be the number one medical student in your class and you may have a 260 on step 1. If so, good for your, you are obviously bright and a hard worker. However, if that is the case, you are undoubtedly an exception to the trend for any specialty. Your specific credentials are not useful in comparing specialty wide trends.

I agree, surgery is more competitive than it was 5-10 years ago. Surgery programs were not filling around that time, so although an increase in interest bodes well for your specialty it does not prove that surgery is more competitive than radiology or EM or anything else.

Also, it is a bit condescending of you to assume that surgery is more rewarding than any other specialty. What's rewarding to you is not necessarily rewarding to anyone else. Furthermore, nobody disrespected you or surgery. We are merely discussing the topic of competition for residency spots in different specialties. This has nothing to do with respect, or whether or not you have the ability to save lives, juggle bowling balls or dance the jig. Lastly, you come off sounding ridiculous when you say that a surgery resident is part time ER doc, part time radiologist, etc. In fact, you only succeed in disrespecting your colleagues and being hypocritical.

 

[Faebinder]

Okay, with all due respect, this post is a bit irrelevant to what's being discussed here.

You may be the number one medical student in your class and you may have a 260 on step 1. If so, good for your, you are obviously bright and a hard worker. However, if that is the case, you are undoubtedly an exception to the trend for any specialty. Your specific credentials are not useful in comparing specialty wide trends.

I agree, surgery is more competitive than it was 5-10 years ago. Surgery programs were not filling around that time, so although an increase in interest bodes well for your specialty it does not prove that surgery is more competitive than radiology or EM or anything else.

Also, it is a bit condescending of you to assume that surgery is more rewarding than any other specialty. What's rewarding to you is not necessarily rewarding to anyone else. Furthermore, nobody disrespected you or surgery. We are merely discussing the topic of competition for residency spots in different specialties. This has nothing to do with respect, or whether or not you have the ability to save lives, juggle bowling balls or dance the jig. Lastly, you come off sounding ridiculous when you say that a surgery resident is part time ER doc, part time radiologist, etc. In fact, you only succeed in disrespecting your colleagues and being hypocritical.

👍 Agreed, surgical06 post was uncalled for...

 

[Bertelman]

i'm a gen surg applicant with scores that are higher than averages for any specialty, application is pretty good. however, it has not been as easy this aplication period for me as many people speculated. fact is , with the 80 hr work week, general surgery is more competitive. those that chose lifestyle over career in the past are returning to a more rewarding career. general surgery is one of the hardest residencies, if not the hardest (100% surgeon, part ER doc, part critical care doc/IM, part radiologist). my problem with the previous post is the lack of respect for those docs whom have the knowledge to save a life after that auto accident, 4 vessel disease, ect....

respectfully,
j

Funny, I could see Eric LaSalle saying this. ER just needs to disappear, by the way.

 

[Entei]

Yes, the mean Step 1 scores and percentage of applicants who are AOA are different if you compare general surgery and radiology. And yes the numbers for general surgery might be inflated somewhat by the people who apply as a back up to things like plastics. These are valid points. However keep in mind that all of these numbers are from the 2005 Match and that gen surg is by all accounts on the upswing in terms of number and quality of applicants. If anything, these numbers will only go up in the future.

Regardless, I find it hard to call any specialty "not that competitive" when less than 85% of its US senior applicants match. I know, trotter, that you don't think this is an accurate measure of a specialty's competitiveness, but as programs have a larger and larger applicant pool to screen, their criteria will undoubtedly become more and more rigorous. There were over twice as many applicants as there were spots for surgery in the 2005 match, and with those kinds of odds, programs can definitely afford to be even more selective. I absolutely think that this is important to consider when determining how competitive things are.

BTW, I don't think the discussion is pointless at all. If I were evaluating specialties, I would want an accurate description of the playing field as I was trying to decide what specialties interested me, and what steps I might have to take in order to match. I think the important message here is that if it happens to be surgery that you're interested in, be advised that while it used to be an easy match, it is much more competitive now and is becoming more competitive every year.

 

[Bertelman]

I can see the relevance of a thread giving a rough guide to which specialties are "very", "moderately" or "not at all" competitive. But I think the act of actually ranking them in a certain order is silly. One need only scroll above this post to see how difficult it is to agree on the order. Please, tell me how the young medical student benefits from such a discussion.

"Well, entei said this, but faebinder disagreed, but they both agreed that surg06 was out of line, while splitting their opinions on anything trotter had to say. I guess I'll be stuck with Peds instead of IM, because at 215 my Step 1 is just under the nat'l average for US allopaths. They say kids are just little people anyways, right?"

Meanwhile, I'm pissed Anesthesiology isn't even mentioned. Does that mean it's so easy to match into it shouldn't even be included in the list?

p.s. please don't comment on the details of my soliloquy above. I just grabbed names from the thread.

 

[Faebinder]

I can see the relevance of a thread giving a rough guide to which specialties are "very", "moderately" or "not at all" competitive. But I think the act of actually ranking them in a certain order is silly. One need only scroll above this post to see how difficult it is to agree on the order. Please, tell me how the young medical student benefits from such a discussion.

"Well, entei said this, but faebinder disagreed, but they both agreed that surg06 was out of line, while splitting their opinions on anything trotter had to say. I guess I'll be stuck with Peds instead of IM, because at 215 my Step 1 is just under the nat'l average for US allopaths. They say kids are just little people anyways, right?"

Meanwhile, I'm pissed Anesthesiology isn't even mentioned. Does that mean it's so easy to match into it shouldn't even be included in the list?

p.s. please don't comment on the details of my soliloquy above. I just grabbed names from the thread.

HUH!? Entei and I agree catagorical gen surgery is more competitive than radiology. Luckily for those who truly want general surgery, there is still the chance of getting in through prelim.... which btw only ADDS to the competitiveness of general surgery... because a person who finished PGY-1 prelim because he/she couldn't find a catagorical position will add himself/herself to the competition next year because they would rather repeat PGY-1 again as catagorical over going for a PGY-2 prelim (of course ideally they want PGY-2 catagorical... but that's ideal.)

 

[Bertelman]

p.s. please don't comment on the details of my soliloquy above. I just grabbed names from the thread.

HUH!? Entei and I agree catagorical gen surgery is more competitive than radiology. Luckily for those who truly want general surgery, there is still the chance of getting in through prelim.... which btw only ADDS to the competitiveness of general surgery... because a person who finished PGY-1 prelim because he/she couldn't find a catagorical position will add himself/herself to the competition next year because they would rather repeat PGY-1 again as catagorical over going for a PGY-2 prelim (of course ideally they want PGY-2 catagorical... but that's ideal.)

This explanation of yours is exactly what I mean when I say "How does this help the average med student?" I'm all for discussing the trends of why certain specialties have become more competitive, but let's lose the pretense that this is beneficial in deciding which field to pursue. It only serves to make those who have diffculty matching feel better because "it's not my fault X is more competitive this year", or makes those who are successful feel better because "it's so competitive but I STILL matched MGH". Or it just makes you feel bitter about the entire process.

Count me bitter.

 

[Faebinder]

This explanation of yours is exactly what I mean when I say "How does this help the average med student?" I'm all for discussing the trends of why certain specialties have become more competitive, but let's lose the pretense that this is beneficial in deciding which field to pursue. It only serves to make those who have diffculty matching feel better because "it's not my fault X is more competitive this year", or makes those who are successful feel better because "it's so competitive but I STILL matched MGH". Or it just makes you feel bitter about the entire process.

Count me bitter.

Are we in the same planet? Everyone agreed this is useless info generally and we are doing it for the heck of it. Please don't transfer bitterness here... got enough of it in real life. heh.

 

[surgical06]

Okay, with all due respect, this post is a bit irrelevant to what's being discussed here.

You may be the number one medical student in your class and you may have a 260 on step 1. If so, good for your, you are obviously bright and a hard worker. However, if that is the case, you are undoubtedly an exception to the trend for any specialty. Your specific credentials are not useful in comparing specialty wide trends.

I agree, surgery is more competitive than it was 5-10 years ago. Surgery programs were not filling around that time, so although an increase in interest bodes well for your specialty it does not prove that surgery is more competitive than radiology or EM or anything else.

Also, it is a bit condescending of you to assume that surgery is more rewarding than any other specialty. What's rewarding to you is not necessarily rewarding to anyone else. Furthermore, nobody disrespected you or surgery. We are merely discussing the topic of competition for residency spots in different specialties. This has nothing to do with respect, or whether or not you have the ability to save lives, juggle bowling balls or dance the jig. Lastly, you come off sounding ridiculous when you say that a surgery resident is part time ER doc, part time radiologist, etc. In fact, you only succeed in disrespecting your colleagues and being hypocritical.

it may sound rediculous to you because you must not be aware of what general surgeons do. it was you who disrespected your colleagues when you said you know a bunch of bright people going into peds, family and IM, as if these fields don't require people to be bright or were you implying you don't have to be bright to get into these spots. either way, its a poor statement to make.

all i did was state i think my field is the best thing since sliced bread, which everyone should do.

 

[surgical06]

👍 Agreed, surgical06 post was uncalled for...

i appologize if i offended anyone, that was not my intent.

 

[Bertelman]

As for whether these lists are helpful, I think they are--at least in terms of career planning for 1st - 3rd years.

BTW, I don't think the discussion is pointless at all. If I were evaluating specialties, I would want an accurate description of the playing field as I was trying to decide what specialties interested me, and what steps I might have to take in order to match. I think the important message here is that if it happens to be surgery that you're interested in, be advised that while it used to be an easy match, it is much more competitive now and is becoming more competitive every year.

Everyone agreed this is useless info generally and we are doing it for the heck of it. Please don't transfer bitterness here... got enough of it in real life. heh.

Everyone? Well, maybe not quite. And in the future, I will make sure I refrain from posting any bitterness on SDN. Gosh, what was I thinking! 🙄

 

[Entei]

This explanation of yours is exactly what I mean when I say "How does this help the average med student?" I'm all for discussing the trends of why certain specialties have become more competitive, but let's lose the pretense that this is beneficial in deciding which field to pursue. It only serves to make those who have diffculty matching feel better because "it's not my fault X is more competitive this year", or makes those who are successful feel better because "it's so competitive but I STILL matched MGH". Or it just makes you feel bitter about the entire process.

Count me bitter.

What are you smoking? Nothing I've posted in this thread has been bitter.

In my more junior years in med school, I would lurk around SDN and read these kinds of threads, and I always thought that they contained valuable information. For example, during my first year, general surgery was a much easier match, but since the 80 hour regulations, surgery has had fewer and fewer unfilled spots each year. Now that I'm applying, I'm glad I had this info from threads like these instead of relying on the rumors and scuttlebutt from less informed individuals at my school. I'm not comparing specialties to stroke anyone's ego; I'm posting information for all the little Enteis out there.

 

[Bertelman]

What are you smoking? Nothing I've posted in this thread has been bitter.

In my more junior years in med school, I would lurk around SDN and read these kinds of threads, and I always thought that they contained valuable information. For example, during my first year, general surgery was a much easier match, but since the 80 hour regulations, surgery has had fewer and fewer unfilled spots each year. Now that I'm applying, I'm glad I had this info from threads like these instead of relying on the rumors and scuttlebutt from less informed individuals at my school. I'm not comparing specialties to stroke anyone's ego; I'm posting information for all the little Enteis out there.

Entei,

Never thought you were bitter. Not sure how you interpreted that from my posts.

p.s. I've heard contraception works great for those one night stands- may reduce the number of little Enteis out there. 😉

 

[dannyinaustin]

Is Psychiatry really that low on the competitive totem pole??

 

[Winged Scapula]

Is Psychiatry really that low on the competitive totem pole??

In most places, yes.

 

[BNSN]

In most places, yes.

Why is that? Any reason?

 

[Faebinder]

Why is that? Any reason?

I'm just gonna guess at this point.... Lack of competition for psychiatry is due to lack of applicant supply because:

1) Psychiatry comes with awful reputation amongst the common folks. Mental illnesses in general are shunned by society that lacks knowledge in them and so being a person in that field passes along some of that reputation into your relationship amongst non-medical people you meet.

2) Many cases are incurable and end up relapsing cause of non-complaince.

3) Pays as much as primary care.

4) The patients themselves come with a lot of social problems and that is taxing to the physician. You have to become a mental physician and a social physician. The line between a social problem and a mental problem can be very blurry.

 

[badgas]

it may sound rediculous to you because you must not be aware of what general surgeons do.

Oh wow, I guess you are right! I just realized that none of us have any clue what gen surgery is like. Oh, wait, we ALL were forced to do 80+ hr/wk rotations in it the same as you.

 

[surgical06]

Oh wow, I guess you are right! I just realized that none of us have any clue what gen surgery is like. Oh, wait, we ALL were forced to do 80+ hr/wk rotations in it the same as you.

i'm actually a med student, i was responding to a specific comment, which is quoted in my reply.

 

[badgas]

i'm actually a med student, i was responding to a specific comment, which is quoted in my reply.

I know you are a med student, and a rather friendly and modest one at that. Your comments were ridiculous and you were called on it. Surgery doesn't even touch the level of competition seen in at least half of the specialties. And it is as part time radiology, ER, etc as anything other than path.

 

[Gyric]

ER is much more competitive than Pathology. I would actually place Pediatrics and Internal Medicine above Pathology and Psychiatry as well because even thought there are more spots avaiable in Peds and IM, the good ones are much more competitive than good Path or Psych spots.

and your evidence for this is ....

Since we are writing subjectively, I assure you that pathology at BWH/MGH/JHU/UCSF etc is currently much more competitive than medicine/peds/EM/psych at those same institutions. If you dont have a PhD or in some cases a postsoph you will need an elite CV WITH connections to have a chance. Pathology residents at these institutions could have matched into any specialty. Objectively you can review the nrmp data cited here to see that on average pathology is more compeitive than these specialties as well.

Private practive pathologists enjoy among the highest hourly pay/lifestyle of any specialty (factoring in variables like malpractice, call, and vacation), but unlike many specialties the partnership track job market is very competitive. The only way to have a chance at one of these jobs is to train at an elite institution, get desirable fellowship training, etc, hence the insane competitiveness of top programs.

That being said, anyone who can pass pathology boards deserves respect.

 

[Trisomy13]

this thread is delivering the "internet ****** slap-fight" quality of entertainment i am seeking today while on 24-hr call (aka 30-hr call) in the MICU.

carry on!