Residency rankings

[threemusketeers]

Hey,
I was just wondering if there are published rankings for each residency specialty? Are the hospital specialty rankings by U.S. news a good guide?

I was looking into the cleveland clinic and I found it kind of peculiar that a lot of their residency programs have a really large proportion of foreign medical graduates.

 

[Law2Doc]

Hey,
I was just wondering if there are published rankings for each residency specialty? Are the hospital specialty rankings by U.S. news a good guide?

I was looking into the cleveland clinic and I found it kind of peculiar that a lot of their residency programs have a really large proportion of foreign medical graduates.

No and no. This is a word of mouth business. When you get to your later med school years, you will find mentors in your desired target specialty who will let you know which programs are reportedly good versus malignant. They frequently do not track the US News type rankings, and some places are great in some specialties and lousy in others. Best not to worry about this until you get well into med school and actually know what specialty you are going for. Most (about 90% is the often used figure) of all med students change their mind at least once before selecting a residency.

 

[HumbleMD]

No and no. This is a word of mouth business. When you get to your later med school years, you will find mentors in your desired target specialty who will let you know which programs are reportedly good versus malignant. They frequently do not track the US News type rankings, and some places are great in some specialties and lousy in others. Best not to worry about this until you get well into med school and actually know what specialty you are going for. Most (about 90% is the often used figure) of all med students change their mind at least once before selecting a residency.

On a related note, to what extent is academic inbreeding looked down upon residency and sub-specialty? For example, yeah it will probably change, but if I would love to get into WashU's Neonatology residency program (there's a man there doing wonderful things with surfactant protein expression), would attending WashU for med school and pediatric residency be good or bad?

 

[Law2Doc]

On a related note, to what extent is academic inbreeding looked down upon residency and sub-specialty? For example, yeah it will probably change, but if I would love to get into WashU's Neonatology residency program (there's a man there doing wonderful things with surfactant protein expression), would attending WashU for med school and pediatric residency be good or bad?

I would think it wouldn't hurt if you went there and got to know, shadowed and did research for folks in the department you ultimately wanted to join. But if you do well in med school and the boards you probably could get there from many other places too. That being said, bear in mind that (1) you will very possibly change your mind when you see other specialties, or if you find you don't like pediatrics in general or these folks in particular, and (2) people are known to move around and be poached by other medical systems, and so it's conceivable that in the many years it will take to get to this stage, this dude may move to another school altogether (and his research with him), or retire, or someone else may be doing cooler neonatal research elsewhere and make some other school the new mecca for this. So you don't want to think ahead too many steps or to lock into a path too early.

 

[MadameLULU]

On a related note, to what extent is academic inbreeding looked down upon residency and sub-specialty? For example, yeah it will probably change, but if I would love to get into WashU's Neonatology residency program (there's a man there doing wonderful things with surfactant protein expression), would attending WashU for med school and pediatric residency be good or bad?

From what I've heard, if a school has really good fellowship programs, most likely the residents are given the easier cases and aren't challenged as rigorously as they would be at a residency where the fellowship program isn't as strong. So it may depend on what YOU at that time. Say you change your mind and just want to do general pediatrics. I would rather go to a residency program where I'd see more challenging cases just to prepare me for anything I may see out on my own.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

would attending WashU for med school and pediatric residency be good or bad?

from what i hear, most medschools are self-selective to their own for residencies

also, its hard to say for example that going to cleveland clinic for a particular residency would be good; the reasoning is the petty resident would likely have less of a chance to try different things.

best residency = place that lets you do the most things possible + has awesome physicians...... dont just go to a place with awesome physcians.

 

[Trepp]

This is one of the hard parts about choosing a residency. There are really no “rankings” that list residencies. Some of the things that people do use are fellowship placement (look for cards and GI), and the US news & world report rankings of the affiliated hospital. This can give you an idea of how strong the facility is that you would be working in. The rest is really word of mouth and gut feeling! Good luck 🙂

 

[Trepp]

From what I've heard, if a school has really good fellowship programs, most likely the residents are given the easier cases and aren't challenged as rigorously as they would be at a residency where the fellowship program isn't as strong. So it may depend on what YOU at that time. Say you change your mind and just want to do general pediatrics. I would rather go to a residency program where I'd see more challenging cases just to prepare me for anything I may see out on my own.

The best places use fellows to back up the residents. For example you aren't going to sweat a little renal insufficiency in a hospitalized diabetic, but if you are thinking dialysis it might be nice to get the opinion of the renal fellow. Procedures might be the something that you would have to fight them for.

 

[justwondering]

its hard to know about the program unless u do a rotation there or in a nearby hospital (where u can ask residents about the other residency programs in the area). i use the fmg numbers to tell how desirable a program is (i know fmg-heavy programs can offer tons of good experience, but still, there must be SOME reason why amgs dont want to go there...like less desirable location, too high work load, better program in the area, etc).

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

On a related note, to what extent is academic inbreeding looked down upon residency and sub-specialty? For example, yeah it will probably change, but if I would love to get into WashU's Neonatology residency program (there's a man there doing wonderful things with surfactant protein expression), would attending WashU for med school and pediatric residency be good or bad?

I know I'm splitting hairs here, but isn't Neonatology a sub-specialty of Pediatrics, and therefore a fellowship program? Therefore, we are talking about a career milestone that is even farther into the future. I agree with the general opinion in this thread - this is way too early to be making decisions based on where you want to be in 8-10 years.

Just my fellow pre-med opinion...

 

[HumbleMD]

I know I'm splitting hairs here, but isn't Neonatology a sub-specialty of Pediatrics, and therefore a fellowship program? Therefore, we are talking about a career milestone that is even farther into the future. I agree with the general opinion in this thread - this is way too early to be making decisions based on where you want to be in 8-10 years.

Just my fellow pre-med opinion...

Booh. Stop being such a pre-med.

Yeah yeah, I know neonat is a sub-specialty. Which is why I asked if doing med school and then the requisite peds fellowship at the same school is beneficial. Basically, back to the original question, I'm trying to figure out if academic in-breeding is a help or a hindrance in medicine.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

Booh. Stop being such a pre-med.

Yeah yeah, I know neonat is a sub-specialty. Which is why I asked if doing med school and then the requisite peds fellowship at the same school is beneficial. Basically, back to the original question, I'm trying to figure out if academic in-breeding is a help or a hindrance in medicine.

In what way? It is generally accepted that residency programs show some preference for graduates of their affiliated medical school (most likely due to more exposure). Are you concerned about the fellowship level? For example, are you wondering if the WashU fellowship program would be less likely or more likely to select you because of the fact that you completed med school & residency at WashU?

Or, is it something else that you are concerned about? For example, I would think spending all of those years at the same medical center would be somewhat of a hindrance in terms of diversity of experience / exposure to different methodologies.

Would this affect you at the post-fellowship level? Would it hinder your ability to find employment? I certainly think not.

 

[HumbleMD]

In what way? It is generally accepted that residency programs show some preference for graduates of their affiliated residents (most likely due to more exposure). Are you concerned about the fellowship level? For example, are you wondering if the WashU fellowship program would be less likely or more likely to select you because of the fact that you completed med school & residency at WashU?

Or, is it something else that you are concerned about? For example, I would think spending all of those years at the same medical center would be somewhat of a hindrance in terms of diversity of experience / exposure to different methodologies.

Would this affect you at the post-fellowship level? Would it hinder your ability to find employment? I certainly think not.

I wasn't aware it was "generally accepted." Most graduate programs don't like to poach from their own undergrad school. I was wondering if Med school to Residency had the same taboo. I guess not. Thanks.

 

[chicamedica]

I wasn't aware it was "generally accepted." Most graduate programs don't like to poach from their own undergrad school. I was wondering if Med school to Residency had the same taboo. I guess not. Thanks.

I've found that the in the medical arena, preference is given for applicants the programs know with more certainty that they are good workers. It's sometimes risky to gamble on applicants they only know about from the application. (on the flip side this may also be why sometimes nepotism occurs with some frequency in this field unfortunately). It's easier for faculty to get to "know" how good a resident/future fellow is from watching them work for 3 years (or 5 years if you also did med school there). The longer you stay at an institution, the more opportunities you have of building your reputation as a hard worker and showing how "good" you are. Word of mouth, just as with residency quality, also works that way for residenT quality. If you go to a new place, you have to prove yourself all over again, even if you do get accepted. So often, applicants prefer to stay at the same institution for fellowship because of that.

And you're right, often graduate programs (especially in biology and chemistry) are against accepting their own (which I think is weird personally, but i suppose makes sense if they want to mix the pool of knowledge 😛 ). Medicine is definitely different that way, because how you work is more important. The knowledge is the same everywhere, since most of medical learning is self-taught.

As for the residency quality ranking, i agree with what other posters have said, re: a lot of it being by word of mouth at least as far as malignant vs. friendly programs go. Furthermore, even among the good programs, ranking of quality is actually very individual, based on your own personal career goals and preferences, because even the strong programs have different focuses, special strengths, overall attitude, etc that you should decide for yourself about what the best fit for YOU would be. So actual order is very applicant dependent and not to be quantified into a single rank list for all.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

I wasn't aware it was "generally accepted." Most graduate programs don't like to poach from their own undergrad school. I was wondering if Med school to Residency had the same taboo. I guess not. Thanks.

Ahh...I took it for granted that you already knew that. Basically, since the vast majority of third year students rotate at hospitals affiliated with their medical school, the residency directors will have had the opportunity to gain more exposure to those medical students when it comes time for ranking in the match. Another factor to consider is the residency director's familiarity with the curriculum / quality of training at a particular med school - naturally, they are going to feel more comfortable with the med school they know the most about. On top of this, if they themselves graduated from that particular med school, they may be even more biased towards graduates of that institution.

 

[lateness]

I know I'm splitting hairs here, but isn't Neonatology a sub-specialty of Pediatrics, and therefore a fellowship program? Therefore, we are talking about a career milestone that is even farther into the future. I agree with the general opinion in this thread - this is way too early to be making decisions based on where you want to be in 8-10 years.

Just my fellow pre-med opinion...

exactly. i mean, your knowledge and opinions and understanding of residency and the future will change again and again, as you progress throughout med school.. i wouldnt worry about that now at all.