Residency Standards? Guidance Appreciated!

[RustNeverSleeps]

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Hi everyone,

Sorry if this is a topic that has been covered ad nauseum, but I had a question about the difficulty of matching in psych. I know people always say that psych is relatively easy in terms of matching, but what does that translate to in terms of grades, scores, etc.? I would really appreciate it if people could provide feedback on my situation below just so I can have some idea of what is meant by psych being less competitive than other fields.

I would like to attend a program such as MUSC or USF -- good, but not the absolute best (I don't want to go back to the cold Northeast!). I attend a top 5 medical school and am about to enter my first clinical year. I got mostly P's (mostly high pass, which isn't reflected on my transcript) with some H's for my basic science courses. I have not yet taken the boards (generally done during third year at my school). With any luck, I should get a paper published on research in child psych. My question is, to get into schools like I mentioned above (or any good psych residency), how well do I have to do on my remaining hurdles? For instance, do I need to kill myself on the wards so I can get H in everything (even surgery, which I am absolutely dreading)? Are stellar board scores required?

Thanks in advance for your help. 😍 I hope this post doesn't make me look narcissistic -- or lazy -- but I really would like to match at a good psych program and want to ensure that I do well enough to make that happen.

 

[purpledoc]

My question is, to get into schools like I mentioned above (or any good psych residency), how well do I have to do on my remaining hurdles? For instance, do I need to kill myself on the wards so I can get H in everything (even surgery, which I am absolutely dreading)? Are stellar board scores required?

(1) You are at a top 5 medical school.
(2) You are interested in psychiatry.
(3) You appear to be a native speaker of English.

Translation: Barring extraordinarily poor social skills and total lack of any outside interests that comes up on interviews, you have approximately a 99 and 44/100% chance of getting into any second-tier residency program in the country (if they even believe you're serious about putting them on your match list), and probably most top-tier residency programs as well.

You may think I am kidding. I am not.

When you add in the research on child psychiatry -- regardless of whether or not it is published -- you are a stellar candidate. No, you definitely don't have to get honors on all your clinical rotations; you should ideally get H in psychiatry and otherwise just not fail anything. The main goal is to be seen as likable by your peers and supervisors (the "social skills" part, which really is vital) since your med school dean will pull out key phrases from your performance reviews for your dean's letter.

Don't worry about board scores. Most psychiatry residency programs don't really care, as long as you pass.

If you haven't done it already, join the APA. It's only about $25. Come to the annual meeting next spring and go to the meet-the-Residency Directors' breakfast. You'll impress them with your eagerness to get involved in psychiatry, and you can then follow-up with cards to the people you want to impress.

By the way, you might be surprised how much you like surgery! I loved it. I also found that many psychiatrists told me that they loved it too, and many surgeons actually considered psychiatry at one point. I think it has something to do with the curiousity and drive to get directly "inside" other people, physically or mentally.

Peace,
Purpledoc

 

[MBK2003]

and add that it's often helpful to have a "life experience" which has shaped your goals and aspirations. I am a PGY2 at a top tier program and everyone is our class of 12 is over 29 yo. Everyone spent at least 2 years doing something after college, or was a MD-PhD.

It's interesting that Surgery was mentioned, my favorite non-psych rotation was Ortho. For me it was clearly the appeal of being able to use power tools, hammers, and screw drivers on a daily basis. But alas, I decided that I actually wanted to see my husband and kids at some point in my residency.

Good luck! Psych residency (for me at least) has been so much better than I could have imagined.

MBK2003

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Thanks for the replies...I greatly appreciate your insights. I have psych as my first rotation. I am definitely excited about getting experience it, but the med student lore here is that it is harder to get honors on your first rotation because you are so clueless about everything in the beginnig. If I don't get honors in psych, is that catastrophic? I have signed up for some electives in psych this year (child and addiction) -- hopefully I will get at least one of those.

Purpledoc, thanks for the reassurance. I will definitely follow up on your suggestion about joining the APA. I noticed that the student application requires the signature of the psych chair. Do you think that most would be willing to do this, or are a lot of them unwilling?

MBK2003, what do you mean by "life experience"? I did take time off between college and med school, but it was to do a financial job that I absolutely detested. I am interested in psych from the coursework I did in college, but especially the research (personality development in preschool-aged children, female psychopathy -- two different studies, naturally). Would those things qualify as good experiences to write or talk about? I'm glad you are enjoying your residency -- what have been the most pleasant surprises?

Again, thank you both for your response. I enjoyed learning your perspectives.

 

[purpledoc]

Thanks for the replies...I greatly appreciate your insights. I have psych as my first rotation. I am definitely excited about getting experience it, but the med student lore here is that it is harder to get honors on your first rotation because you are so clueless about everything in the beginnig. If I don't get honors in psych, is that catastrophic? I have signed up for some electives in psych this year (child and addiction) -- hopefully I will get at least one of those.

Purpledoc, thanks for the reassurance. I will definitely follow up on your suggestion about joining the APA. I noticed that the student application requires the signature of the psych chair. Do you think that most would be willing to do this, or are a lot of them unwilling?

No, not getting honors isn't catastrophic, though you'll find that psychiatry is not as bad as other medical specialties as your first rotation. You can always do another psych elective later if you only pass -- again, *if* you don't really piss off your supervisors or come across as badly personality-disordered, in which case you may be toast.

As for joining the APA, heck, the psych chair will probably bound over his/her desk to sign it. Most chairs are simply delighted that a medical student is interested in joining!

 

[kcrd]

I did psych as my first rotation, and honored it, and I am by no means a fabulous student or a gunner. You should be graded against other first block med students, so they won't expect you to be as good as a 5th block student. You just need to be enthusiastic, read about your patients, and be a hard worker to get honors. Easier said than done, of course, but it isn't the end of the world to have it first.

 

[carolyn]

If you haven't done it already, join the APA. It's only about $25. Come to the annual meeting next spring and go to the meet-the-Residency Directors' breakfast. You'll impress them with your eagerness to get involved in psychiatry, and you can then follow-up with cards to the people you want to impress.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but APA membership is free for medical students. Just download the brochure and get an attending who's an APA member to sign it. You'll be amazed at how many opportunities (ie, travel scholarships and fellowships) are available when you're involved with the APA.

 

[prominence]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but APA membership is free for medical students. Just download the brochure and get an attending who's an APA member to sign it.

NOTE: the APA membership is only available to medical students who are enrolled in accredited U.S. and Canadian medical schools.

 

[roady]

So how much time/wk does it take to be a psych resident??

Thanks!

Call me "Desperately curious/need to know"

 

[purpledoc]

So how much time/wk does it take to be a psych resident??

Thanks!

Call me "Desperately curious/need to know"

There's no simple answer to that one. It depends on what year you are and which program it is. The first year you have to do at least 6 months medicine (or peds, in some programs). Your hours then will match the medicine interns. (Ditto for your neurology months first year.) In following months or years, it varies tremendously by program. You probably will never regularly work 80-100 hrs a week like in some surgery programs. On the other hand, it's not at all unusual to work 8-6+ pm all week (50+ hours) plus whatever hours you have from being on call once or twice a week (which could be another 12-24 hours, or more.)

One of the big differences from program to program is not simply the number of on-call shifts you have, but also how much work you have to do on-call. In some programs, on-call for psychiatry is an occasional admission and call from the unit about an agitated patient. In other programs, on-call is non-stop ED evaluations, admissions, hospital consults, and other crises.

So, I hope that's a little bit of help. It's just such a variable factor that it's hard to give a specific answer.