Residency Without An Inteview?

[canadian1234]

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Will programs ever offer a residency even though they have not interviewed you?

Can you scramble into a program even though you have not been interviewed?

 

[medicinesux]

Quick answer- Never and Absolutely (but they will want to at least do a quick screening interview on the phone)

 

[Winged Scapula]

Those most successful in the scramble are so at programs they previously interviewed...however, this is but a small percentage of people.

For most programs, the minimum would be a phone interview. More desparate programs may offer you a spot without seeing you in person; most will screen you over the phone and invite you for an in-person interview, especially if for a categorical position.

 

[buckley]

So is it impossible to scramble from overseas?

 

[Winged Scapula]

So is it impossible to scramble from overseas?

Not necessarily, but you'll need a good phone connection, FAX and the ability to fly here if a program wants to meet you in person.

 

[mlw03]

someone told me that University of Hawaii will do a phone interview. as a candidate though i'd never rank a place i hadn't been to myself to see the program for myself.

 

[canadian1234]

Those most successful in the scramble are so at programs they previously interviewed...however, this is but a small percentage of people.

For most programs, the minimum would be a phone interview. More desparate programs may offer you a spot without seeing you in person; most will screen you over the phone and invite you for an in-person interview, especially if for a categorical position.

If you get hired as a result of a phone interview either during the match or the scramble, is it possible the program can change its mind and/or fire you when you arrive to start the residency?

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Wow, do you look really evil or something? The program can probably fire you for no good reason before the contract is signed and I'm not sure if you can do that without having them seeing you in person. They can't really fire after its signed without a legitimate cause unless they want to face a possible lawsuit.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yeah, I can't imagine what reason they would have to break your contract once you arrived unless there was something you did that would violate the contract.

They can't fire you for being a certain age, gender, race, religion, etc. They might fire you if you cannot get a state license (as we've discussed before) but since the contract is based on your ability to get it, that's legit.

 

[canadian1234]

I look quite nice, actually. And look to be in my 40's or 50's. But because of my age, long time since med school graduation etc, the Program Directors might look at me like I was their daughter's first date. So I take it from what you say that they would be unlikely to hire me in desperation and then replace me when someone "better" came along?

What is a 'transitional year'?

Is there a list of programs that had vacancies after the match and were scrambled for last year?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I look quite nice, actually. And look to be in my 40's or 50's. But because of my age, long time since med school graduation etc, the Program Directors might look at me like I was their daughter's first date. So I take it from what you say that they would be unlikely to hire me in desperation and then replace me when someone "better" came along?

Unlikely. You are allowed to discriminate against your daughter's choices of dates. Programs are not allowed to discriminate against you based on your elder status.

What is a 'transitional year'?

Transition Year, or TY, is a one year internship which is comprised of a number of different rotations, usually in Medicine, Surgery, Ob-Gyn, Peds, Em, etc. Sort of like 3rd year med school revisited. They are highly competitive as an internship because they can be used for the first year for a number of programs and are seen as more cush than a regular Prelim IM or Surgery year.

Is there a list of programs that had vacancies after the match and were scrambled for last year?

There sure is...lots of tables here: http://www.nrmp.org

Follow the Data/Table link under the Residency Match (located at the top left of the screen).

 

[canadian1234]

Thanks so much, Kimberly. I see you are from Arizona. I like the state and Dr. A. Weil. Just wondering if you might recommend any programs in FM, Psych, Prev Med or Derm in the state?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks so much, Kimberly. I see you are from Arizona. I like the state and Dr. A. Weil. Just wondering if you might recommend any programs in FM, Psych, Prev Med or Derm in the state?

Sorry...I just moved here two months ago, so am not really in tune with the "local medical scene" as of yet.

(FWIW: you do know that Derm is considered one of THE most competitive specialties around, don't you?)

 

[Blade28]

Sorry...I just moved here two months ago, so am not really in tune with the "local medical scene" as of yet.

Surely you've at least seen his photo:

🙂

 

[Winged Scapula]

Surely you've at least seen his photo:

🙂

Sorry...until I reread his post, I didn't see the mention of Dr. Andrew Weil.

Yes, I am familiar with him, although not personally nor in the sense of the local medical scene - he's in Tucson (not where I am).

 

[canadian1234]

Surely you've at least seen his photo:

🙂

Right. Probably no hair transplantation, botox or face lift here 🙂. I understand Dr. Weil is a graduate of Harvard Medical School. Was it necessary for him to have done a residency, which some consider to be scut work, to be a good doctor?

 

[Blade28]

Was it necessary for him to have done a residency, which some consider to be scut work, to be a good doctor?

Your question is a little confusing.

Yes, you do scut during residency. But unless you're thinking about the "complete an internship then get licensed and hang your shingle" approach (AKA being a GP, which is rare these days), everyone completes a residency before practice.

It's rare to be a practicing physician without having completed a residency (and thus, in this country, being at least board-eligible).

BTW, incidentally, Weil went to Harvard for undergrad and med school, and completed his internship at Mt. Zion in San Francisco. AFAIK, that's all the "formal" medical training he did - he wasn't interested in the rest of residency.

 

[Winged Scapula]

What makes for a good doctor is up for considerable debate and has been for years.

But practically, I will tell you, in the US, without completing a residency, you are essentially unemployable in the traditional sense and will not have an easy time getting on any insurance plans or hospital admitting privileges.

Weil may or may not be an excellent physician but the truth is that he would find it hard, if he were graduating/training now, to get work in a hospital or PP except for all cash paying patients. His fame has secured him a bit of professional job stability. It is becoming fairly readily apparent that without being Board Eligible (which he is not), one will have a hard time practicing medicine except in boutique practices. Dr. Weil is licensed only as a "General Practitioner" in Arizona with one year of post-graduate training.

 

[Mad Dog]

Weil may or may not be an excellent physician but the truth is that he would find it hard, if he were graduating/training now, to get work in a hospital or PP except for all cash paying patients. His fame has secured him a bit of professional job stability. It is becoming fairly readily apparent that without being Board Eligible (which he is not), one will have a hard time practicing medicine except in boutique practices. Dr. Weil is licensed only as a "General Practitioner" in Arizona with one year of post-graduate training.

Note though that Weil trained just prior to the advent of the 3 year Family Medicine residency. In his time, 1 year of General Practice was the norm. So if he decided not to get Boarded in Family Medicine that was an interesting choice-- he would have been eligible to be grandfathered in.

Anyhoo, like you're saying, its harder to be a "General Practitioner" these days but not impossible. Most insurance plans, as a minimum, will allow you to bill out-of-network. Depending on the region and other factors you can still get on their usual provider plans. Its just not a sure bet, as with those Family Medicine boarded.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Note though that Weil trained just prior to the advent of the 3 year Family Medicine residency. In his time, 1 year of General Practice was the norm.

True.

So if he decided not to get Boarded in Family Medicine that was an interesting choice-- he would have been eligible to be grandfathered in.

Which he didn't...he had obviously already secured some fame and presumably financial stability, so must have decided that it wasn't worth the effort to him (even though as you note, he would have been grandfathered in). Glad it worked out for him.

Anyhoo, like you're saying, its harder to be a "General Practitioner" these days but not impossible. Most insurance plans, as a minimum, will allow you to bill out-of-network. Depending on the region and other factors you can still get on their usual provider plans. Its just not a sure bet, as with those Family Medicine boarded.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. It is still possible, but increasingly difficult to do as a non-Board Eligible person to find employment or to get on insurance plans. The hospitals I applied to for admitting and operating privileges do not accept applications from non-BE physicians. I mention this because I suspect the OP is considering doing as little training as possible in an effort to get a US license and then practice alternative medicine.

 

[Miami_med]

Unless the OP finished medical school in the US, most states will require that he complete 3 years of residency to get licensed anyway.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Unless the OP finished medical school in the US, most states will require that he complete 3 years of residency to get licensed anyway.

I believe the OP was educated in Canada many years ago. But good point; if its not an LCME school, he will need to complete up to 3 years for a full and unrestricted license in the US.

 

[buckley]

Back to original query, how common is it during scramble that the hospital wants to meet the candidate? I mean, is it more the norm than the exception? Or the other way around? (which is what Im hoping for....well actually, im hoping i wont ever have to scramble!)

 

[Samoa]

I believe the OP was educated in Canada many years ago. But good point; if its not an LCME school, he will need to complete up to 3 years for a full and unrestricted license in the US.

Not true. In many states, one year is still all that's required. Some require two, and none that I'm aware of (although I haven't checked on that specifically) require three years.

Edit: Ok, Nevada requires three (how snooty of them). And most do require three years for IMGs. I didn't realize there was a difference.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Not true. In many states, one year is still all that's required. Some require two, and none that I'm aware of (although I haven't checked on that specifically) require three years.

Edit: Ok, Nevada requires three (how snooty of them). And most do require three years for IMGs. I didn't realize there was a difference.

Thanks...saves me from responding that you were wrong.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Back to original query, how common is it during scramble that the hospital wants to meet the candidate? I mean, is it more the norm than the exception? Or the other way around? (which is what Im hoping for....well actually, im hoping i wont ever have to scramble!)

Most scramble interviews are phone based. This is difficult on both ends, as neither party really "knows" what it's getting.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Most scramble interviews are phone based. This is difficult on both ends, as neither party really "knows" what it's getting.

Which reminds me of the story I tell every year about this:

many years ago I had a friend, a gay male, who severely limited his choices of psychiatry residencies and didn't match;

turns out that UCSF-Fresno had an open position. My friend thinks great! San Francisco would be perfect for me and my social needs;

a phone interview turned out well, he accepted the position;

flew into Fresno on a typical late spring day - it was probably 100 degrees; stepped out onto the tarmac at the airport, looked around and saw fields instead of skyscrapers and realized, "Dorothy, we ain't in San Francisco!"

Moral of the story: at least look at a map before you accept a position

 

[buckley]

Most scramble interviews are phone based. This is difficult on both ends, as neither party really "knows" what it's getting.

Agree. But for people who live on the other side of the planet +/- rather stringent visa issues---this is actually comforting 🙂 But I really really hope I match!

As for looking in the map, I agree! This whole match process was a crash course for US geogaphy for me.

 

[canadian1234]

As the OP of this thread, I would like to clarify that I am looking to do a residency in the USA or Canada in order to enter clinical practice again. I am not looking to practice alternative medicine in the residency but trying to find a program that has an open mind to my "advancing" age, long time out of medical school and past involvement in alt med which lead to my battle with the College of Physicians.

You might be interested to know that a group of us recently was able to convince the government to abolish the College's largest committee. The College lost millions of dollars and a large amount of its power because they had been conducting unfair physician audits which caused many to restrict or close their practices and some to commit suicide.

 

[Samoa]

Thanks...saves me from responding that you were wrong.

yeah, I figured. It sucks that they make everyone train for three years--not every foreign school is a fly-by-night operation.