Resident benefits and salary question

[nancysinatra]

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I am curious to see how salaries and benefits vary across programs. I thought I'd ask people what kinds of benefits you get in terms of educational expenses, and days off for vacation, conferences.

My program gives us $300/year for educational expenses. We get 15 days vacation after our first year when we get 10 days. Our educational leave time is totalled over 4 years of residency, but I think it's something like 20 days total, so 5 days per year, and that has to cover mandatory stuff like certain training classes and ACLS.

Just curious how it is at other places.

 

[gutonc]

I am curious to see how salaries and benefits vary across programs. I thought I'd ask people what kinds of benefits you get in terms of educational expenses, and days off for vacation, conferences.

My program gives us $300/year for educational expenses. We get 15 days vacation after our first year when we get 10 days. Our educational leave time is totalled over 4 years of residency, but I think it's something like 20 days total, so 5 days per year, and that has to cover mandatory stuff like certain training classes and ACLS.

Just curious how it is at other places.

That's fairly typical. 2-4 weeks of vacation, some ed time, maybe a little cash for books/etc. Some programs offer more, some offer less.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

We get zero educational funds, but pretty much all our meals are comped. We get 3 weeks of vacation for all 4 years and 1 week of educational leave each year. With leave, we generally always get at least one weekend off coupled with 5 business days as 1st and 2nd years. For 3rd and 4th years, you get both weekends off surrounding your vacation and can take vacation in longer blocks if you want. Otherwise, ACLS and BLS are paid for and not included in ed leave days. We get an additional 2 days off for Step III but no financial support for it.

 

[docu]

I am curious to see how salaries and benefits vary across programs. I thought I'd ask people what kinds of benefits you get in terms of educational expenses, and days off for vacation, conferences.

My program gives us $300/year for educational expenses. We get 15 days vacation after our first year when we get 10 days. Our educational leave time is totalled over 4 years of residency, but I think it's something like 20 days total, so 5 days per year, and that has to cover mandatory stuff like certain training classes and ACLS.

Just curious how it is at other places.

the programs i've been to usually had $500+ for CME, 4 weeks per year vacation (paid), and ACLS was done at the beginning of the year, no education time off. the salary was $45k-ish

 

[Ashers]

MCW has great benefits. My intern pay was $50K, now it's about $57 (PGY-4). We also get a taxed $1500/year for licensing/DEA/gym/books, etc. We also get 15 weekdays of vacation a year and generally the pre/post weekends. We have 5 days of academic leave a year. I think all the benefits are to make up for being in Milwaukee which is a decent city. Then my department gives us up to $500 non-taxed for books, etc. and up to $1500/year for conference travel etc.

 

[inspirationmd]

3 weeks vacation and an additional 5 days around either Christmas or New Years Eve (lottery system for what you get) for all residents annually. We also get 5 educational days annually. $650 per year in educational funds (program specific) that carry over annually and can be used for conferences, books,etc. They pay for the annual residency license as well as for Step 3 if you register for it intern year. $100 per month for food allowance (only lasts half the month which does kind of suck). BLS, ACLS, ATLS, NRP etc. were paid for. Starting salary this year for interns is 49K and you get a $1000 moving stipend.

 

[45408]

I think all the benefits are to make up for being in Milwaukee which is a decent city.

Oh, you'll learn to love it.

 

[anonperson]

Free food at the hospital (even when not on call). $1500/year for educational expenses. ~17 days off per year for PGY2-4 and 5 educational days (per year) and for seniors 5 interview days. Christmas block or New years block off. ACLS, PALS, BLS paid for by the hospital.

The program takes care of us financially, but the surrounding area is less than ideal.

 

[Ashers]

Oh, you'll learn to love it.

I will be leaving in less than 242 days, and I couldn't be happier that after 8 years, I'll be getting out of here.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

What benefits do you guys think are most important? For example, if given a choice, I'd go for an extra week of vacation instead of educational funds. Free food is also not bad. Now a free ipad would be especially awesome.

 

[Law2Doc]

What benefits do you guys think are most important? For example, if given a choice, I'd go for an extra week of vacation instead of educational funds. Free food is also not bad. Now a free ipad would be especially awesome.

At many places you can use your educational funds for an iPad.

But yes, I think more vacation trumps pretty much everything because spare time becomes a scarce, and thus more valuable, commodity in residency.

 

[gutonc]

At many places you can use your educational funds for an iPad.

But yes, I think more vacation trumps pretty much everything because spare time becomes a scarce, and thus more valuable, commodity in residency.

Agree completely. Every single program in every specialty will give you money (a salary) in the range of $45-55K. An extra $500-1000/y is nice but really won't make a huge difference...you can buy that iPad, review course, license, etc yourself.

But there's one thing you can't buy, no matter how big your salary is, and that is time.

All that said, picking a program based solely on benefits and salary is a horrible idea.

 

[nancysinatra]

Every single program in every specialty will give you money (a salary) in the range of $45-55K. An extra $500-1000/y is nice but really won't make a huge difference...

Not my program! Our PGYI salaries are a good 3 grand below that lower limit. In our case, $1000 actually means something. And sadly, I'm not in Milwaukee. And we get zero food. Wait I take that back--we do get free non-dairy creamer at one if not more of our sites.

All that said, picking a program based solely on benefits and salary is a horrible idea.

I agree, but I also think med students are woefully naive about the realities of contracts, salaries, and institutional finances. I wish I had known more about benefits 4 years ago. I wish I had thought about salary in terms of amount instead of simply being glad it wasn't a student loan.

 

[DrAwsome]

Not my program! Our PGYI salaries are a good 3 grand below that lower limit. In our case, $1000 actually means something. And sadly, I'm not in Milwaukee. And we get zero food. Wait I take that back--we do get free non-dairy creamer at one if not more of our sites.



I agree, but I also think med students are woefully naive about the realities of contracts, salaries, and institutional finances. I wish I had known more about benefits 4 years ago. I wish I had thought about salary in terms of amount instead of simply being glad it wasn't a student loan.

Wow that sucks. 🙁 My intern salary was towards the higher end of that, in a low cost city, about an hour away from a major metropolitan city so I got the best of both worlds, along with free food, and computer money, as well as a small Christmas bonus that was given out of the PD's own pocket. 🙂 She was awsome!

I'm totally with you on the naiveness issue though. It's sad what huge blinders we have and how ignorant we are of all the realities of practice. Schools need to do a much better job of educating students.

I guess I am also naive as to why resident salaries are so low. In my understanding one of the reasons many people don't complain about the crap salaries is because in a good number of specialties, they expect to make decent cash in the future but with all the cutting of salaries, why wouldn't there be a bigger push for higher resident salaries?

Isn't the funding for each spot like 100k or so?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Wow that sucks. 🙁 My intern salary was towards the higher end of that, in a low cost city, about an hour away from a major metropolitan city so I got the best of both worlds, along with free food, and computer money, as well as a small Christmas bonus that was given out of the PD's own pocket. 🙂 She was awsome!

I'm totally with you on the naiveness issue though. It's sad what huge blinders we have and how ignorant we are of all the realities of practice. Schools need to do a much better job of educating students.

I guess I am also naive as to why resident salaries are so low. In my understanding one of the reasons many people don't complain about the crap salaries is because in a good number of specialties, they expect to make decent cash in the future but with all the cutting of salaries, why wouldn't there be a bigger push for higher resident salaries?

Isn't the funding for each spot like 100k or so?

Yes but remember that includes not just your salary, but also the benefits (including health/dental insurance), teaching salaries, excess supplies used (i.e., the cost of having residents in hospital when you order more tests, trash a Foley because you drop the catheter on the ground before putting it in, etc.). Is all that worth an extra $50K (or so) per year? I don't know, but I'm sure the accountants have figured some way to establish that it is.

 

[DrAwsome]

Yes but remember that includes not just your salary, but also the benefits (including health/dental insurance), teaching salaries, excess supplies used (i.e., the cost of having residents in hospital when you order more tests, trash a Foley because you drop the catheter on the ground before putting it in, etc.). Is all that worth an extra $50K (or so) per year? I don't know, but I'm sure the accountants have figured some way to establish that it is.

At the same time, we produce a lot more than we cost and if they had to hire extra staff, it would cost them far more than 50k. I think we get a raw deal overall. Particularly when it comes to senior residents who act like attendings in many specialties, they pay them in the 50k range and those residents work like attendings, who would be paid far more than 50k. So I dunno.

 

[FutureInternist]

All that said, picking a program based solely on benefits and salary is a horrible idea.

👍👍

Keep in mind that some places may have lower salaries (Lubbock) but that your whole family's medical & dental is covered

Also....do NOT pick based only on that

Culture (malignant or not)
Time (residents under or @ duty hours consistently & w/o lying)
Nurses (hot or not)
etc
etc
etc
then benefits

 

[AHillock]

All that said, picking a program based solely on benefits and salary is a horrible idea.

I have never heard of a medical student ranking programs based on how good their salary would be. But hey, there is a first for everything. I am sure there must be a few over the years that have made this mistake.

Besides the usual variables that students use to rank programs, one that I think is helpful to distinguish between two programs that one is having a hard time to pick between would be the livability of a city (COL vs. salary). One reason why I could never live in a Palo Alto/SF/LA/NYC/Boston. But hey, more power to those that make it work and find it enjoyable. Just wasn't something I was interested in. But I guess my difference was already having a family, so YMMV. I can see how for someone single those cities have more to offer in certain areas.

Isn't the funding for each spot like 100k or so?

Correct. Salary plus benefits make up what, ~$60-65k of that? So that asks the question of where does the other $35-40k go? I guess as someone mentioned, probably goes into the hospitals account to cover other costs that are associated with GME. Like paying for PD salary, office staff, interview dinners...etc. But those are my assumptions. I'm sure others on here know much better.

 

[Winged Scapula]

At the same time, we produce a lot more than we cost and if they had to hire extra staff, it would cost them far more than 50k. I think we get a raw deal overall. Particularly when it comes to senior residents who act like attendings in many specialties, they pay them in the 50k range and those residents work like attendings, who would be paid far more than 50k. So I dunno.

You're preaching to the choir sista.

 

[gutonc]

Correct. Salary plus benefits make up what, ~$60-65k of that? So that asks the question of where does the other $35-40k go? I guess as someone mentioned, probably goes into the hospitals account to cover other costs that are associated with GME. Like paying for PD salary, office staff, interview dinners...etc. But those are my assumptions. I'm sure others on here know much better.

FWIW, when I write a grant, for salaries in the $50-75K range (i.e., where most house staff live), I have to budget 35% for benefits. So for a salary of $50K that's $67.5K. For $60K (which is what I made my last year of fellowship) you're looking at $81K. the cushion isn't as huge as you may think it is.

 

[nancysinatra]

I have never heard of a medical student ranking programs based on how good their salary would be. But hey, there is a first for everything. I am sure there must be a few over the years that have made this mistake.

Ok, I don't think it would make sense to rank programs by salary. But it's worth knowing something about the salary. If it's comparatively low, that might be a reflection of financial issues the institution could be having.

I found out after arriving at my program that the entire institution was in dire straights. They had made some bad financial decisions right before the recession, and when the recession hit, it exacerbated those problems in a big way.

Of course things could be worse. Some programs fold, and the residents have to find new jobs. And yeah the recession has affected everyone. But it has a worse effect on places that had their problems to begin with.

At some point, the quality of training gets affected. That's why I say that low salaries may be reflections of other issues that can affect training. But I was not thinking about this as a med student. However, throughout residency, I have had to devote a significant amount of my (comparatively low) salary to things like medical care (our insurance isn't great), dental (our plan doesn't cover too much), parking at multiple hospitals, a lot of my food while I'm on call, ACLS classes, etc. Even travel to conferences where I've presented posters along with attendings.

The end result for me is that while I probably would have gone into academic medicine, I'm now really turned off by huge institutions with their questionable accounting and big time problems.

I think the match process also discourages students from looking into these kinds of things. Like what MSIV is going to inquire about the financial stability of a prospective program that's well regarded from the clinical side, or whether the salary is fair? Then you match somewhere, and you learn from experience.

 

[DrAwsome]

Ok, I don't think it would make sense to rank programs by salary. But it's worth knowing something about the salary. If it's comparatively low, that might be a reflection of financial issues the institution could be having.

I found out after arriving at my program that the entire institution was in dire straights. They had made some bad financial decisions right before the recession, and when the recession hit, it exacerbated those problems in a big way.

Of course things could be worse. Some programs fold, and the residents have to find new jobs. And yeah the recession has affected everyone. But it has a worse effect on places that had their problems to begin with.

At some point, the quality of training gets affected. That's why I say that low salaries may be reflections of other issues that can affect training. But I was not thinking about this as a med student. However, throughout residency, I have had to devote a significant amount of my (comparatively low) salary to things like medical care (our insurance isn't great), dental (our plan doesn't cover too much), parking at multiple hospitals, a lot of my food while I'm on call, ACLS classes, etc. Even travel to conferences where I've presented posters along with attendings.

The end result for me is that while I probably would have gone into academic medicine, I'm now really turned off by huge institutions with their questionable accounting and big time problems.

I think the match process also discourages students from looking into these kinds of things. Like what MSIV is going to inquire about the financial stability of a prospective program that's well regarded from the clinical side, or whether the salary is fair? Then you match somewhere, and you learn from experience.

I think you got a particularly raw deal unfortunately. I think the avg resident gets about the same in terms of compensation, with some places being extra nice if they have extra funds and if the PD is benign. But you are right that the typical 4th year student just wants a spot and doesn't really think about a lot of these things. I guess we grow and learn!

 

[nogolfinsnow]

Large CA Peds program in high cost of living area:
Salary 50,55,60 for PGY 1,2,3; Full medical, dental, vision for self + spouse/dependents;All meals covered; 4 weeks vacation (in two 2-week blocks), either Xmas or New years off, ~$550 for books/equipment. No educational days; need shifts covered to go to conferences, interviews, etc. PALS, NRP, Step III, medical license all covered. Free parking! Hospital no longer matches 403(b) contributions. Contract negotiations next summer; I'll have to show our interns what some of the less-benefited programs have by comparison so they actually take interest....