resident's white coat

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
It varies depending on the location. Duke surgery residents (I think) wear short white coats (the one that hits your hips and are often worn as med students). In the UK, residents wore coats that were mid-thigh or knee-length, but attendings wore ones that were well below the knee (this was true in the 80's - not sure about now). Most residents I've seen wear the mid-thigh to knee length (depending on their height).
 
I think it varies from hospital to hospital and with supplier. Most of us here wear lab coats which fall below the knee although I have a couple which are at the knee...different manufacturer. I prefer the men's coat because our women's coat has a belt in the back and no interior pockets (manufacturer dependent). I measured mine (rather inaccurately with the side of my Maxwell's) and its about 80 cm from shoulder to hem.
 
GeneGoddess said:
It varies depending on the location. Duke surgery residents (I think) wear short white coats (the one that hits your hips and are often worn as med students). In the UK, residents wore coats that were mid-thigh or knee-length, but attendings wore ones that were well below the knee (this was true in the 80's - not sure about now). Most residents I've seen wear the mid-thigh to knee length (depending on their height).
Click to expand...

Duke first and second year surgeons wear the short coat and white pants. They then do 2 years of research - when they come back, it's the long coat and regular clothes. Duke IM wears the short coat as an intern. We as EM (as a division of surgery) just got approval for the interns to wear the long coat; if you know anything about Duke (and tradition at Duke), you know this is HUGE.

I wear a coat below the knee, and, if I could, I would wear a "Pale Rider" ankle length, Germanic coat (bellkicker told a funny story online about being in a US hospital with his coat-to-the-floor and his Scandinavian accent). Two of my colleagues have these mid-hip coats, and one of the two is known in our program for being contrary just to be so - he would argue with you if you said today was Monday. I asked him why he wore the short coat, and he had some goofy reason, and I told him he looked like a dentist. That's no hit on dentists - a long coat would get in the way in the dental chair - but, the white coat is symbolic by it's color and length, and also protective.

Regardless, he got a new, longer coat!
 
if i could, i would wear some kind of white tactical vest. i'm only a rising third year and still find myself running out of pocket space.
 
All the surgery and medicine residents have to wear short white coats at my program. 😡 Kind of annoying because the EM and anesthesia residents here get personalized embroidered long coats (even the EM interns!).
 
Has anyone seen the short-sleeved whitecoats previously worn by druggists. Oudated term for an outdated whitecoat. That would be the whitecoat Dr. Ray from 90210 would wear, better yet he would wear a sleeveless whitecoat. What an arrogant SOB.
 
raptor5 said:
Has anyone seen the short-sleeved whitecoats previously worn by druggists. Oudated term for an outdated whitecoat. That would be the whitecoat Dr. Ray from 90210 would wear, better yet he would wear a sleeveless whitecoat. What an arrogant SOB.
Click to expand...


All the better to show off his muscles and to drop to the OR floor for some pre-op pushups! 😉
 
And this is an important part of residency........ why? 👎
 
FutureOrthoDoc said:
And this is an important part of residency........ why? 👎
Click to expand...

Because medicine is based on the primate male dominance heirarchy, wherein the subordinates must display their buttocks to the dominant males in the troop....

(Sorry, but you asked....)
 
OldPsychDoc said:
Because medicine is based on the primate male dominance heirarchy, wherein the subordinates must display their buttocks to the dominant males in the troop....

(Sorry, but you asked....)
Click to expand...

So true... 🙂
I happened to be chatting the other day with some of my co-residents about the yucky short coats. It seems unanimous among the female residents that the short coat makes our figures look worse -- something about the coat line being at the level it is makes our hips and behinds look bigger. The long coats are much more slimming to the figure.

Not that I'm vain or anything... 😳
 
A white coat that goes to the ankles?

I'm annoyed enough at having to wear a white coat. I couldn't imagine if my coat went below the knees. That has to hinder your walking ability. Can you imagine walking with that buttoned?

Sorry, I have this thing that if you're going to wear a coat, button it. I can't stand unbuttoned coats... but of course, that's nowhere near as bad as my pet peeve for someone wearing a stethoscope around his/her neck. If you have a white coat on, then use one of the pockets to store your stethoscope. If you have a suit on (like many of our attendings wear) or no white coat, then a stethoscope around the neck is ok.
 
southerndoc said:
A white coat that goes to the ankles?

I'm annoyed enough at having to wear a white coat. I couldn't imagine if my coat went below the knees. That has to hinder your walking ability. Can you imagine walking with that buttoned?

Sorry, I have this thing that if you're going to wear a coat, button it. I can't stand unbuttoned coats... but of course, that's nowhere near as bad as my pet peeve for someone wearing a stethoscope around his/her neck. If you have a white coat on, then use one of the pockets to store your stethoscope. If you have a suit on (like many of our attendings wear) or no white coat, then a stethoscope around the neck is ok.
Click to expand...

I don't get your peeves about an unbuttoned coat or the stethoscope around the neck. What did you do when you were on the bus? The surgeons and the critical care docs here are the only two groups that use a stethoscope regularly (more or less) that put them in their pockets. I have picked up the habit now after the MICU, but I find it deforms the tubing. At least I haven't picked up another bad habit ("looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue").

Your peeves sound idiosyncratic.

As far as the symbolism, it has been diluted at some places. Prior to everyone and their brother wearing the long coat, maybe you might be more sure of the symbol. I had said that, when I got my long coat beginning of this academic year, I'd be confused with the translators and the phlebotomists.
 
AJM said:
So true... 🙂
I happened to be chatting the other day with some of my co-residents about the yucky short coats. It seems unanimous among the female residents that the short coat makes our figures look worse -- something about the coat line being at the level it is makes our hips and behinds look bigger. The long coats are much more slimming to the figure.

Not that I'm vain or anything... 😳
Click to expand...

Heh...all this time, from the occasional posts I'd seen of yours, I thought you were a guy.
 
southerndoc said:
A white coat that goes to the ankles?

I'm annoyed enough at having to wear a white coat. I couldn't imagine if my coat went below the knees. That has to hinder your walking ability. Can you imagine walking with that buttoned?

Sorry, I have this thing that if you're going to wear a coat, button it. I can't stand unbuttoned coats... but of course, that's nowhere near as bad as my pet peeve for someone wearing a stethoscope around his/her neck. If you have a white coat on, then use one of the pockets to store your stethoscope. If you have a suit on (like many of our attendings wear) or no white coat, then a stethoscope around the neck is ok.
Click to expand...
i dont know where i read this, but someone can confirm or refute it.

is it true that internists generally hang their stethoscopes around their neck, and surgeons do not? like, is that the mark of an internist that they hang their stethoscope around their neck? i read that somewhere, maybe first aid for the wards?
 
imtiaz said:
i dont know where i read this, but someone can confirm or refute it.

is it true that internists generally hang their stethoscopes around their neck, and surgeons do not? like, is that the mark of an internist that they hang their stethoscope around their neck? i read that somewhere, maybe first aid for the wards?
Click to expand...

DEFINITELY. Wearing your scope around the neck is something medicine people do, surgeons do not. I like to tell my med students that I'll mark their eval down every time I catch them doing that (along with wearing their scrub tops with khaki pants - a mark of the EM physician or FP) ! :laugh:
 
I remember on my surgery rotation (my last one for M3 year), I kept wearing my stethoscope around my neck since I had developed that habit up to then. The residents kept laughing at me. I kept checking my pants to see if it had holes in them and kept feeling my back to see if there was a "kick me" sign. This went on for about a week until one of the residents finally broke the news that "in surgery, we put our stethoscopes in our white coat pockets, not around our necks." I never realized that just this simple act of putting a stethoscope around my neck was so humorous to some folks.
 
Hey, all the surgeons on Grey's hang their steth's around their neck, and so does Dr90210, and thats on TV so it must be the cool way to do it!

There is some tradition to the short vs long white coat, but I really think it comes down to the fact that you are (or will be) a physician......... you should be able to walk into an exam room wearing a clown suit and still accomplish the same task. Patch Addams did it, and he is a still a practicing physician and he still wears crazy clothes!

coats come in 35" 40" 43"...... but the way they hang all depends on upper body bulk anyway. I say DON"T button your coat, you button it and all of a sudden you look like you should be sitting at a lab bench running Rxn's with your hot-plate, magnetic spin vein, hickman still (remember that stuff?)
 
When I'm on my rotations, I'm simply going to wear the thing in my ears at all times.
 
I for one, couldn't care less of what anyone thinks of me in regards to where I wear my 'scope. I am a neck wearer, BTW. I have tried the whole pocket thing, and I constantly feel like it is falling out, or it gets hung in my chair every time I try to stand up. The neck is easy access, you can always feel it there, and you don't fall over getting out of chairs. An attending in surgery that I was friendly with made fun of me one day for wearing it on my neck. I said-"At least I use mine!) BTW- That was said with a smile.... His response? "Touche'", cause I really did have him on that one.
In the end- who cares. Go for comfort.
 
My 2 cents to follow for the benefit of new M3s. Khaki pants with a scrub top looks really cool; but, never ever wear this with a white coat.

Coat buttoned vs. unbuttoned is a matter of personal preference. I find it makes me less aerodynamic to leave it open. But, it is more doctor-like. Either way, do not wear the stethoscope around the neck. Not because of the surgeon-IM thing, but because I think it looks nursey. Not that there's anything wrong with that :laugh:

As for length: the longer the better. Or that's what she said, at least.
 
imtiaz said:
is it true that internists generally hang their stethoscopes around their neck, and surgeons do not? like, is that the mark of an internist that they hang their stethoscope around their neck?
Click to expand...

Yes. Surgeons are pocket people. They frequently refer to internists as "fleas" because they're the first ones on the body and the last ones off. Hence, the stethoscope around the neck is a "flea collar".

Around the neck definitely looks cooler, and is practical until a psychotic patient or irate waiting room victim grabs it to strangle you with it.

As far as the coat length goes, it varies by institution. Many programs provide embroidered white coats, so you can call the residency program and ask what they order.

There is definitely a heirarchy rooted in much tradition.
The shorty white coat (Harry Potter Cloak of Invisibility) is usually the required uniform for med students. There is the required Robert Wood Johnson pin, no less than 3 forms of identification, tuning forks of many calibers, at least one opthalmoscope, and little pin-on ribbons for every cause from breast cancer to autoerotic asphyxia.
Residents would have a slightly longer coat, looking a bit more normal if not for all the coffee stains, ring around the collar, ripped pockets from carrying 30 pounds of pocket guides and patient lists dating to last January, and DNR stickers all over it clandestinely placed there my nurses. Kevlar body armor panels optional for certain ER residency programs.
The attending would have an even longer white coat, pristine, professionally laundered and starched, gleaming. The only tools in it would be a calipers and a stethoscope older than time, if only to wave in the face of residents and their underdeveloped examination skills which have fallen by the wayside in the age of CT scanning. There may be occasionally in one interior pocket a xerox copy of the most obscure published study ever that may be produced on demand to refute the resident's suggested course of treatment, even if that course of treatment is consistent with standard of practice and giant volumes of studies from every major medical center in the US.
And if you spot some coolio with a white coat that reaches to the ground and trails behind him like a cape, it's a pretty good bet that he's in charge, wherever he is. You may refer to this person as "Sir" or "Your Eminence" or "Darth".


'zilla
 
Kimberli Cox said:
Yeah....I'd expect that from an EM resident. 😀
Click to expand...
I ditto the cool look of khakis with scrub top. I wear a scrub top with EMS pants so I have enough pockets for gloves, ect. I've got to be ready for what ever rolls in the door while the surgeons won't even come to the department until the CTs are done. 😉
 
Apollyon said:
I don't get your peeves about an unbuttoned coat or the stethoscope around the neck. What did you do when you were on the bus? The surgeons and the critical care docs here are the only two groups that use a stethoscope regularly (more or less) that put them in their pockets. I have picked up the habit now after the MICU, but I find it deforms the tubing. At least I haven't picked up another bad habit ("looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue").

Your peeves sound idiosyncratic.

As far as the symbolism, it has been diluted at some places. Prior to everyone and their brother wearing the long coat, maybe you might be more sure of the symbol. I had said that, when I got my long coat beginning of this academic year, I'd be confused with the translators and the phlebotomists.
Click to expand...
Apollyon, in my OP I wrote "If you have a suit on (like many of our attendings wear) or no white coat, then a stethoscope around the neck is ok." So when I was on the ambulance, I would put my stethoscope around my neck.

I didn't have a pet peeve with it until my third year of medical school during a surgery rotation. For some reason, after following "their way," it just grew on me. I think a collar should be uncluttered, and a white coat should be buttoned. It's just personal preference, but it's a peeve of mine to see someone with a white coat unbuttoned and/or a stethoscope around their white coat (the classic flea collar).

I think it looks more professional with a white coat buttoned. Unbuttoned white coats look really tacky when you're wearing scrubs and walking, everything just drifting in the wind. With a shirt and tie, this is not as bad, but still not as professional as having it buttoned.
 
docB said:
I ditto the cool look of khakis with scrub top. I wear a scrub top with EMS pants so I have enough pockets for gloves, ect. I've got to be ready for what ever rolls in the door while the surgeons won't even come to the department until the CTs are done. 😉
Click to expand...

You're saying it like they come down SOMETIMES before the CT scan is done?

PS: The rest of you guys with your white coat/stethoscope argument are nuts. I'd like to button you all up in you coats and beat you with your stethoscope.

I don't wear a white coat because it's too much of a pain in the ass. I have to wear the stethoscope around my neck because (a) I use it and (b) I can't shove it up my ass. I refuse to get one of those utility-belt clip things.

mike
 
I wear my stethoscope in my cargo hip pocket, low slung like a six gun. It makes me feel like a cowboy. And yes, I'm all about scrub tops with cargo pants. I occasionally wear the (long) white coat over it, but it usually gets tossed to the wayside after I run into a trauma, do a procedure, etc. Most of the consultants think I'm an attending when I wear the coat!


PS. Where I trained in Israel most docs wore long or short coats depending on preference. I prefered short because it was so darn hot. And surgeons would operate without x-rays, much less a CT scan. Surgeons are actual doctors in Israel.
 
Who really gives a crap whether you have your coat buttoned or not? Like not to flame or piss anyone off, but it doesn't affect your skills as a doctor or anything. Do whatever the hell you like. (BTW, khaki pants and a scrub top does NOT look cool on everyone....e.g., me)
 
JudoKing01 said:
Who really gives a crap whether you have your coat buttoned or not? Like not to flame or piss anyone off, but it doesn't affect your skills as a doctor or anything. Do whatever the hell you like. (BTW, khaki pants and a scrub top does NOT look cool on everyone....e.g., me)
Click to expand...
Judo, I never said that I point it out to people. It's just a pet peeve of mine, but one I usually ignore when I see someone else with an unbuttoned coat. (The khakis and scrub tops also look tacky, in my opinion. Why not wear scrub bottoms with your dress shirt and tie?)
 
southerndoc said:
A white coat that goes to the ankles?

I'm annoyed enough at having to wear a white coat. I couldn't imagine if my coat went below the knees. That has to hinder your walking ability. Can you imagine walking with that buttoned?

Sorry, I have this thing that if you're going to wear a coat, button it. I can't stand unbuttoned coats... but of course, that's nowhere near as bad as my pet peeve for someone wearing a stethoscope around his/her neck. If you have a white coat on, then use one of the pockets to store your stethoscope. If you have a suit on (like many of our attendings wear) or no white coat, then a stethoscope around the neck is ok.
Click to expand...

Then I reach down to grab my stethoscope and my Palm, Handbook of MGH, and reflex hammer end up on the floor. :meanie:
 
I think the anal-retentiveness of this thread rates a 10 out of 10. Who gives a flying f--- where you hang your stethoscope or how long your coat is? :meanie:
 
Apollyon said:
We as EM (as a division of surgery) just got approval for the interns to wear the long coat; if you know anything about Duke (and tradition at Duke), you know this is HUGE.
Click to expand...

Lobbying for that must have really endeared you to your surgical colleagues!

Most places I've been had students wearing hip length coats with everyone else in longer coats. My somewhat hazy recollection of Columbia was that all house staff on medicine plus some attendings wore short coats. Surgical house staff wore short coats except for chiefs.

My own preference was to wear my white coat as little as possible. Now I don't even own one. I've tried to streamline things as much as possible so I wear scrubs (no khaki's cause I don't want to get stool, spew, and blood on them). The only thing in my pockets is a pharmacopia and a Sanford's. This way I can run from room to room like my usual manic self without dropping anything or getting my coat snagged on stuff. Plus I'm less likely to overheat wearing just scrubs. The only problem is where to put my scope and like Mikecwru I've found that it doesn't fit up my ass so I wear it around my neck. Doing this makes it clear to me why surgeon's don't like to wear it there since I do worry about it dropping on the field during minor procedures. I compromise by leaving it on the mayo stand during procedures but then I almost always forget it.
 
Yeah, if anything I'd wear scrub bottoms with a t-shirt. I think that looks much better.

Edit: BTW, I wasn't directing the "who gives a crap" directly at you, I was just making a generalized POV. I didn't think that you actually went around trying to button residents' coats. Although I did have a girlfriend that used to do that...she's marrying a dentist now. Figures.
 
ERMudPhud said:
Lobbying for that must have really endeared you to your surgical colleagues!
Click to expand...

I was really gunning for personal interest - we get 3 coats/year as 2's and 3's, and I was trying to get the allotment increased to 4, but my PD is the one who pushed it for the interns (for whom to get long coats I didn't give a damn about).

My white coat is my "purse" - has my multiple Tarascons in it, Sanford, shears, stethoscope, EMRA, gum, Betadine swabs and pair of sterile gloves (since our stocking leaves something to be desired), and Rx pad. It has actually done it's job and kept body fluids off me, but, every so often, I have to "debride" it. However, since I often go without a tie and with a tropical shirt, the coat contrasts enough (not to mention it's Dept of Surgery policy that the white coat is on all the time, unless you're in the OR) that the conservativos don't get all in an uproar. Since I'm engaging with the patients, it's a plus (like the pt this morning who used to live in the Marshall Islands - she LOVED the shirt), and I really do NOT give a damn about the administration, since the shirts have a collar and buttons, so they fit the dress code (if not in scrubs, tie is recommended, but not required). I've said many times, completely seriously, were I to get a job in Hawai'i, I could wear all my shirts to work, and absolutely not raise an eyebrow. As it is now, my favorite shirt is the loudest one - it's black with red, yellow, and white hibiscus on it, and I wore it last week when I did some paperwork, and one of the neuroSx residents said that he would not be responsible for any seizures occuring after viewing my shirt.
 
ERMudPhud and Mikecwru are just being ridiculous. I've never had any problem fitting my stethoscope up my ass and I carry it there frequently unless my head has already taken up all the space. 😛
 
Apollyon said:
. . . My white coat is my "purse" . . .
Click to expand...

I carry a man-purse. Since my drain has been so bamaged by EtOH, etc, I have to keep a complete medical library with me. I also keep various devices to torture patients with in there. Then there's blister blockers, phone/pda chargers, extra pens, and all that. It's OK in the ED cause I can just set it down, but on the wards I feel like a dorkwad always carrying it. If only I could fit all that stuff up my ass . . .
 
southerndoc said:
Why not wear scrub bottoms with your dress shirt and tie?)
Click to expand...

Wow, you have given me such a great idea for my first day on the wards in two months!

It's a shame that only I will find that incredibly hilarious... while my attending sends me to change.
 
By the way if you wear a short skirt and no panties no one will care about the way the unflattering coat shapes your figure. HA HA!
 
We had an attending give us a lecture wearing scrubs, (top and bottom), with a navy blue blazer over top, very pimp
 
EPA7X1 said:
My 2 cents to follow for the benefit of new M3s. Khaki pants with a scrub top looks really cool; but, never ever wear this with a white coat.
Click to expand...

WHAT? This is quite possibly the worst fashion statement medicine docs have EVER come up with! You just look plain dumb, like you just rolled out of bed and forgot to put on the right clothes... JUST SAY NO TO SCRUBS AND KHAKIS! Do NOT let this continue unabated!

As for the stethoscope, for the IM people, it's a matter of usage - you use it a lot, hence around the neck. Surgeons get away with having it in the pocket because they use it less. Just don't clamp the earpieces around your throat. Uncomfortable and silly-looking.

EPA7X1 - Excellent quote on coat length, BTW
 
03Doc said:
WHAT? This is quite possibly the worst fashion statement medicine docs have EVER come up with! You just look plain dumb, like you just rolled out of bed and forgot to put on the right clothes... JUST SAY NO TO SCRUBS AND KHAKIS! Do NOT let this continue unabated!

As for the stethoscope, for the IM people, it's a matter of usage - you use it a lot, hence around the neck. Surgeons get away with having it in the pocket because they use it less. Just don't clamp the earpieces around your throat. Uncomfortable and silly-looking.

EPA7X1 - Excellent quote on coat length, BTW
Click to expand...

What if I find regular pants more comfortable than scrub pants and the pockets more convenient? As surgery residents like to point out, us fleas aren't going in to the OR.
 
I had my blocky short coat tailored to make it fit more professionally.
The sleeves are now the correct length and the back/waist lie flat - even when unbuttoned. It cost maybe $20, but since I wear the thing daily, its worth it to look polished instead of disheveled.

Then again, I also wash my coat - which makes a big difference.
 
Furrball2 said:
What if I find regular pants more comfortable than scrub pants and the pockets more convenient? As surgery residents like to point out, us fleas aren't going in to the OR.
Click to expand...

Honestly, it's a matter of choice, but I'd say wear a regular shirt then - that's just what I'd do.
 
Furrball2 said:
What if I find regular pants more comfortable than scrub pants and the pockets more convenient? As surgery residents like to point out, us fleas aren't going in to the OR.
Click to expand...

To each his own, but your old gomer patients in IM/EM do tend to spew some nasty stuff from orifices, so I would prefer the scrubs and have the hospital wash 'em.
 
If you are having difficulty storing your steth PR (mike), you really should utilize your patient population as a resource - considering some of the things people manage to jam in there, teaching the fine art of rectal stethoscope storage should be no problem. Compared to lightbulbs, grapefruit etc. it shouldnt be a big deal.
 
Kimberli Cox said:
To each his own, but your old gomer patients in IM/EM do tend to spew some nasty stuff from orifices, so I would prefer the scrubs and have the hospital wash 'em.
Click to expand...

We're talking washable, e.g. not dry clean, here. I just got tired of trying to tie the scrubs with a pager or two and a palm clipped to my pants... belts are easier. In the ED yes scrubs all of the way with spewage and leakage highly prevalent. But on the wards the spewage and leakage is less projecile and arterial. Now watch me get covered in goo on my first call as an intern :laugh:
 
I usually keep my stethoscope here:

stethoscope.jpg


I don't usually wear a white coat, and everyone comments on it when I do. I wear scrub tops and bottoms on call, so that if I have any chance of taking a nap, its more comfortable (even if its rare that I get that opportunity).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ladysmanfelpz
What's a resident's role in getting published?
Replies
4
Views
2K
mvenus929
mvenus929
F
Residents Medical *new blog post*
Replies
10
Views
8K
FluffedCotton
F
P
White Coat Debate
Replies
1
Views
2K
BoardingDoc
BoardingDoc
T
  • Locked
White House propose student loan cancellation for frontline healthcare workers during COVID
Replies
1
Views
1K
GoSpursGo
GoSpursGo
P
White Coats
2 3
Replies
102
Views
13K
Crayola227
Crayola227
Top Bottom