Respect amongst health care professionals

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docss26

docss26

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How do you feel about the way other health professionals, specifically physicians regard/treat practicing pharmacists? I have experienced pre-medical students and a few physicians not take the field seriously and somewhat look down upon it. Professional schools are competitive, some more than others and I think some people feel they have an edge over someone else, because they were in a more competitive field and feel superior to others. I'm wondering if this type of mentality is at all present in the professional career settings.
 
docss26 said:
How do you feel about the way other health professionals, specifically physicians regard/treat practicing pharmacists? I have experienced pre-medical students and a few physicians not take the field seriously and somewhat look down upon it. Professional schools are competitive, some more than others and I think some people feel they have an edge over someone else, because they were in a more competitive field and feel superior to others. I'm wondering if this type of mentality is at all present in the professional career settings.
Click to expand...

physicians i've encountered have all been great or indifferent. it's those select nurses that try to talk down to you.

"IT'S JUST A PILL!! WHY'S IT TAKING SO LONG!!"

and the pharmacist is always to blame when there's a problem/delay. they'd go on and on and on about how this and that had to be delayed because of a pharmacy problem. we've discussed this at length in our management courses and sometimes you just have to hold them at bay and not alienate them in the process. political tip-toeing, basically.

and in life, it's always someone who has something to prove that tries too hard and speaks the loudest. remember this, and your life will be a lot more...entertaining.
 
Hah. One of the chem professors at my university felt the need to tell me all about how pharmacists are "totally unnecessary and don't do anything, and are way overpaid and it's pointless for them to have a doctorate level degree."

I was a little appalled. Sure, he's not a medical professional, but he IS a Ph.D and should know better!
 
confettiflyer said:
physicians i've encountered have all been great or indifferent. it's those select nurses that try to talk down to you.

"IT'S JUST A PILL!! WHY'S IT TAKING SO LONG!!"

and the pharmacist is always to blame when there's a problem/delay.

and in life, it's always someone who has something to prove that tries too hard and speaks the loudest. remember this, and your life will be a lot more...entertaining.
Click to expand...

I sure will. That makes a lot of sense.

Carboxide said:
Hah. One of the chem professors at my university felt the need to tell me all about how pharmacists are "totally unnecessary and don't do anything, and are way overpaid and it's pointless for them to have a doctorate level degree."

I was a little appalled. Sure, he's not a medical professional, but he IS a Ph.D and should know better!
Click to expand...

He clearly doesn't know their role in health care. biternesss
 
docss26 said:
How do you feel about the way other health professionals, specifically physicians regard/treat practicing pharmacists? I have experienced pre-medical students and a few physicians not take the field seriously and somewhat look down upon it. Professional schools are competitive, some more than others and I think some people feel they have an edge over someone else, because they were in a more competitive field and feel superior to others. I'm wondering if this type of mentality is at all present in the professional career settings.
Click to expand...

Of course it exists. A subset of people become physicians because they crave power and prestige. The need to elevate themselves. It is what it is.

I never cared, personally. I despise pretentiousness more than just about anything. Those that seek prestige are a pox on healthcare. I don't particularly care if some arbitrary physician looks down on me. I usually don't look "up" to them, per se. If looking down on me is their game, whatever, more power to them.

The way I see it, they are just there. They are folks that do a job. I do my job. If we do both based upon the best evidence available rather than trying to look like a respected genius, everything will go well.

Things don't always go that way. People get easily offended if you present them some sort of evidence that run contrary to their ideas. And if they think you are lesser than them, they take it as an insult. People have done the opposite of what I recommend just because they can. Whatever. The Caligulas of the world unite. In healthcare you can be right even when you are wrong...
 
Carboxide said:
Hah. One of the chem professors at my university felt the need to tell me all about how pharmacists are "totally unnecessary and don't do anything, and are way overpaid and it's pointless for them to have a doctorate level degree."

I was a little appalled. Sure, he's not a medical professional, but he IS a Ph.D and should know better!
Click to expand...

If you're near me, I'll crash your class and give him a huge speech. I have tons of free time.
 
Speaking of tip-toeing around doctors, choose your words carefully when writing notes in charts or be prepared to get disemboweled. You think it's a benign comment, they take it as insulting them, their extended family, the rest of the profession, and Mother Teresa. The poor creatures have such fragile egos.
 
Carboxide said:
Hah. One of the chem professors at my university felt the need to tell me all about how pharmacists are "totally unnecessary and don't do anything, and are way overpaid and it's pointless for them to have a doctorate level degree."

I was a little appalled. Sure, he's not a medical professional, but he IS a Ph.D and should know better!
Click to expand...

The PI I currently work for did not even know pharmacists work in hospitals! 😱
 
im working, talk to the docs in ER, walk in clinic, regular offices all day long, i get nothing but respect and appreciation for looking out for the patient....but i suppose its on a individual basis
 
lorain said:
im working, talk to the docs in ER, walk in clinic, regular offices all day long, i get nothing but respect and appreciation for looking out for the patient....but i suppose its on a individual basis
Click to expand...

Of course. Its just sad to see that some professionals think they have a one up on you because of their educational background or salary. It becoming less and less about the patient now a days. Medicine is so glamorized in this country. I see too many people going into the health profession for all the wrong reasons.
 
I was talking to a NP in town the other day and he was asking about a dosing question before he called the script in and at the end of the conversation he thanked me and mentioned "My professor was right, when in doubt about dosing or therapeutic options just check with the pharmacist when you call it in to make sure it is the best option." He is a fresh out of school last year. It was refreshing to hear that though. He is happy to work together because he wants to make sure his patient gets the best treatment and can afford it.
 
some docs use them and others dont....

At most, you are seen like a nurse with a useful comment here and there about meds.

Hence, why I am going further.......

Also, I have met plenty of clinical pharmacists that have inferiority complexes and are total asses....

Most of the docs I have met are cool.....except the surgeons and they were not that bad!!
 
I honestly don't care how they perceive me. The arrogant people in the medical field I always find funny. I never understood what some people are trying to prove by showing off on their job.
 
J DUB said:
Most of the docs I have met are cool.....except the surgeons and they were not that bad!!
Click to expand...

the one surgeon I worked with (the one that posed the tetracaine stability question in my other thread) is married to a pharmacist. we don't get issues from him at all.

but it is what it is...you'll get crackhead welfare people pulling the "I'm better than you" card in the retail setting. Financial superiority, educational superiority, moral superiority...someone is always claiming something over someone else. It's human nature. Follow WVU's advice...just deal with it and move on.

If it's to the point where working with this person is a safety hazard, find others that feel the same way and diplomatically find a way up the chain of command. Despite "evidence based medicine" and a workforce full of science geeks that spent a god-awful amount of time in school....hospitals can be highly political organizations with rigid structures.
 
some docs use them and others dont....

At most, you are seen like a nurse with a useful comment here and there about meds.

Completely untrue...
Is this why I got paged last night at 8pm from an attending?
Or why I had a meeting at 7am with another attending to change the way we are currently treating patients. This will affect 100s of patients.

Hence, why I am going further.......

This will not fix anything...say you become an anesthesiologist...well the surgeons all make fun of you because all you do is stand behind a curtain for 4 hours and read People magazine....or maybe you become a surgeon...well all the medicine docs make fun of you and talk bad about you because you are worthless when it comes to actually taking care of a patient...Or even better you become a radiologist and stare at a screen all day like a staff pharmacist and then everyone ignores how you read the x-ray, or ct scan because they probably have as much experience doing it as you do.

This is not just a problem with pharmacists. MDs who look down on others typically look down on everyone no matter what you do.

Also, I have met plenty of clinical pharmacists that have inferiority complexes and are total asses....

So.

Most of the docs I have met are cool.....except the surgeons and they were not that bad!!

I work with surgeons. In fact, sat front row at an NFL game this weekend with one....hmm i guess he/she doesnt look down on me.
 
J DUB said:
some docs use them and others dont....

At most, you are seen like a nurse with a useful comment here and there about meds.

Hence, why I am going further.......

Also, I have met plenty of clinical pharmacists that have inferiority complexes and are total asses....

Most of the docs I have met are cool.....except the surgeons and they were not that bad!!
Click to expand...

In general I would have to say your posts in this forum are completely worthless. Just because you were unsatisfied with your pharmacy experience does not mean you have the right to come here and belittle pharmacists and pharmacy students. It seems to me like you had no idea what you were getting into when you applied to pharmacy school which is precisely why you should have explored the career pathways in more depth.
 
bigpharmD said:
some docs use them and others dont....

At most, you are seen like a nurse with a useful comment here and there about meds.

Completely untrue...
Is this why I got paged last night at 8pm from an attending?
Or why I had a meeting at 7am with another attending to change the way we are currently treating patients. This will affect 100s of patients.

Hence, why I am going further.......

This will not fix anything...say you become an anesthesiologist...well the surgeons all make fun of you because all you do is stand behind a curtain for 4 hours and read People magazine....or maybe you become a surgeon...well all the medicine docs make fun of you and talk bad about you because you are worthless when it comes to actually taking care of a patient...Or even better you become a radiologist and stare at a screen all day like a staff pharmacist and then everyone ignores how you read the x-ray, or ct scan because they probably have as much experience doing it as you do.

This is not just a problem with pharmacists. MDs who look down on others typically look down on everyone no matter what you do.

Also, I have met plenty of clinical pharmacists that have inferiority complexes and are total asses....

So.

Most of the docs I have met are cool.....except the surgeons and they were not that bad!!

I work with surgeons. In fact, sat front row at an NFL game this weekend with one....hmm i guess he/she doesnt look down on me.
Click to expand...

All your examples are of individual cases. Of course this doesn't apply to everyone.
 
tungsten87 said:
In general I would have to say your posts in this forum are completely worthless. Just because you were unsatisfied with your pharmacy experience does not mean you have the right to come here and belittle pharmacists and pharmacy students. It seems to me like you had no idea what you were getting into when you applied to pharmacy school which is precisely why you should have explored the career pathways in more depth.
Click to expand...

👍
 
Here is a good joke that is becoming more real as years go by

At the rate of new medications that are coming out, pharmacists are going to replace family physicians very soon

and really there is no point in looking down or up. my questions to someone in doubt are you secure with your surroundings? deep down, are you comfortable with your job? if you answered "no" to each of them, then this superiority complex will persist for the sake of keeping you complacent or satisfied with who, what, and where you are. that applies to any profession.

thumbs up for the great responses in this thread.
 
Last edited:
PharmacyNut said:
Here is a good joke that is becoming more real as years go by

At the rate of new medications that are coming out, pharmacists are going to replace family physicians very soon

and really there is no point in looking down or up. my questions to someone in doubt are you secure with your surroundings? deep down, are you comfortable with your job? if you answered "no" to each of them, then this superiority complex will persist for the sake of keeping you complacent or satisfied with who, what, and where you are. that applies to any profession.

thumbs up for the great responses in this thread.
Click to expand...

👍
 
I attended grand rounds at my clerkship site this morning to get breakfast. The topic was Ethics, they were talking about whether or not it was ethical to give care or medical advice to people who aren't your patients such as friends and family. One of the slides had risky behaviors associated with treating someone who isn't your patient. Under the Medium risk category was : Recommending an OTC treatment.

The physician giving the lecture commented that this "didn't sound to risky, since unqualified people like pharmacists do it all the time..."
 
RoyalBean said:
I attended grand rounds at my clerkship site this morning to get breakfast. The topic was Ethics, they were talking about whether or not it was ethical to give care or medical advice to people who aren't your patients such as friends and family. One of the slides had risky behaviors associated with treating someone who isn't your patient. Under the Medium risk category was : Recommending an OTC treatment.

The physician giving the lecture commented that this "didn't sound to risky, since unqualified people like pharmacists do it all the time..."
Click to expand...

lol how the hell are pharmacist unqualified to recommend an OTC treatment? Don't we go to school to study every detail about drugs? My goodness.
 
RoyalBean said:
I attended grand rounds at my clerkship site this morning to get breakfast. The topic was Ethics, they were talking about whether or not it was ethical to give care or medical advice to people who aren't your patients such as friends and family. One of the slides had risky behaviors associated with treating someone who isn't your patient. Under the Medium risk category was : Recommending an OTC treatment.

The physician giving the lecture commented that this "didn't sound to risky, since unqualified people like pharmacists do it all the time..."
Click to expand...

that's ******ed. it's an OTC for a reason...patients can get it without the approval of a doctor anyway. lol you don't need any qualifications to pick an OTC drug. in my opinion, it's unethical when a doctor prescribes a drug they know little about...
 
RoyalBean said:
The physician giving the lecture commented that this "didn't sound to risky, since unqualified people like pharmacists do it all the time..."
Click to expand...

this is where my quote in my first post comes in handy...sounds like he had something to prove :laugh:
 
bigpharmD said:
some docs use them and others dont....

At most, you are seen like a nurse with a useful comment here and there about meds.

Completely untrue...
Is this why I got paged last night at 8pm from an attending?
Or why I had a meeting at 7am with another attending to change the way we are currently treating patients. This will affect 100s of patients.

Hence, why I am going further.......

This will not fix anything...say you become an anesthesiologist...well the surgeons all make fun of you because all you do is stand behind a curtain for 4 hours and read People magazine....or maybe you become a surgeon...well all the medicine docs make fun of you and talk bad about you because you are worthless when it comes to actually taking care of a patient...Or even better you become a radiologist and stare at a screen all day like a staff pharmacist and then everyone ignores how you read the x-ray, or ct scan because they probably have as much experience doing it as you do.

This is not just a problem with pharmacists. MDs who look down on others typically look down on everyone no matter what you do.

Also, I have met plenty of clinical pharmacists that have inferiority complexes and are total asses....

So.

Most of the docs I have met are cool.....except the surgeons and they were not that bad!!

I work with surgeons. In fact, sat front row at an NFL game this weekend with one....hmm i guess he/she doesnt look down on me.
Click to expand...

LOL...pretty spot on. Just curious about your current status as a pre-op....seems like you don't have a problem with pharmacy.
 
Got Em said:
LOL...pretty spot on. Just curious about your current status as a pre-op....seems like you don't have a problem with pharmacy.
Click to expand...

He is kidding. He's been a proponent of pharmacy for a long time! 🙂
 
RoyalBean said:
I attended grand rounds at my clerkship site this morning to get breakfast. The topic was Ethics, they were talking about whether or not it was ethical to give care or medical advice to people who aren't your patients such as friends and family. One of the slides had risky behaviors associated with treating someone who isn't your patient. Under the Medium risk category was : Recommending an OTC treatment.

The physician giving the lecture commented that this "didn't sound to risky, since unqualified people like pharmacists do it all the time..."
Click to expand...

Did he follow that up with one of these?
351294711_5_XMNj.jpeg

 
PharmacyNut said:
that's ******ed. it's an OTC for a reason...patients can get it without the approval of a doctor anyway. lol you don't need any qualifications to pick an OTC drug. in my opinion, it's unethical when a doctor prescribes a drug they know little about...
Click to expand...
What do you mean? They learned ALL about that drug over a nice steak dinner and got a big box of pens, notepads, and coffee mugs as proof of their mastery.
 
Ackj said:
What do you mean? They learned ALL about that drug over a nice steak dinner and got a big box of pens, notepads, and coffee mugs as proof of their mastery.
Click to expand...

That is my favorite way to learn about a drug.
 
tungsten87 said:
In general I would have to say your posts in this forum are completely worthless. Just because you were unsatisfied with your pharmacy experience does not mean you have the right to come here and belittle pharmacists and pharmacy students. It seems to me like you had no idea what you were getting into when you applied to pharmacy school which is precisely why you should have explored the career pathways in more depth.
Click to expand...

i got what i wanted out of it.....:laugh:
 
If you want to get respect, then you have to be "on". You have to be effective or you won't be needed.

Meaning, whenever you offer useful information, you have to give truly useful information that was not considered by a physician (but don't nitpick the small stuff) during diagnosis and prescription writing, and if you intercede, it needs to be necessary at the moment for proper treatment.

Knowledge is power, but it doesn't do any good if you can't apply it efficiently and effectively.
 
PharmDstudent said:
If you want to get respect, then you have to be "on". You have to be effective or you won't be needed.

Meaning, whenever you offer useful information, you have to give truly useful information that was not considered by a physician (but don't nitpick the small stuff) during diagnosis and prescription writing, and if you intercede, it needs to be necessary at the moment for proper treatment.

Knowledge is power, but it doesn't do any good if you can't apply it efficiently and effectively.
Click to expand...

That makes sense to me.👍
 
RoyalBean said:
I attended grand rounds at my clerkship site this morning to get breakfast. The topic was Ethics, they were talking about whether or not it was ethical to give care or medical advice to people who aren't your patients such as friends and family. One of the slides had risky behaviors associated with treating someone who isn't your patient. Under the Medium risk category was : Recommending an OTC treatment.

The physician giving the lecture commented that this "didn't sound to risky, since unqualified people like pharmacists do it all the time..."
Click to expand...


As a pharmacy student did you get up and say anything? Was there a pharmacist in the room? Did they say anything?

I am going to guess NO.
 
PharmDstudent said:
If you want to get respect, then you have to be "on". You have to be effective or you won't be needed.

Meaning, whenever you offer useful information, you have to give truly useful information that was not considered by a physician (but don't nitpick the small stuff) during diagnosis and prescription writing, and if you intercede, it needs to be necessary at the moment for proper treatment.

Knowledge is power, but it doesn't do any good if you can't apply it efficiently and effectively.
Click to expand...

Gotta show what you know!! 😀
 
bigpharmD said:
As a pharmacy student did you get up and say anything? Was there a pharmacist in the room? Did they say anything?

I am going to guess NO.
Click to expand...

Having an attitude that you speak of is essentially what made me go to school for 5 years rather than 4. Sure, people heard my opinion...but unfortunately, there is no such thing as free speech in pharmacy rotations. You are told what to think. I was the only person in the history of the school to get bounced from a mail order pharmacy rotation. lol. In retrospect, it was a great thing. I got put in a faculty internal medicine rotation instead where I actually learned some stuff. Oh no..bounced from mail order...like that's a punishment. "Here, you little brat. Go on all of these interesting rounds and opportunities at doing crazy in-depth pharmacology research projects. You'll never again get the opportunity to sit in a cubicle for 12 hours a day putting pills into boxes. We'll learn you!"

But, no, unless you have the rare maverick pharmacy student like me that is willing to do bad at school on principle...your advice probably isn't good...
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Having an attitude that you speak of is essentially what made me go to school for 5 years rather than 4. Sure, people heard my opinion...but unfortunately, there is no such thing as free speech in pharmacy rotations. You are told what to think. I was the only person in the history of the school to get bounced from a mail order pharmacy rotation. lol. In retrospect, it was a great thing. I got put in a faculty internal medicine rotation instead where I actually learned some stuff. Oh no..bounced from mail order...like that's a punishment. "Here, you little brat. Go on all of these interesting rounds and opportunities at doing crazy in-depth pharmacology research projects. You'll never again get the opportunity to sit in a cubicle for 12 hours a day putting pills into boxes. We'll learn you!"

But, no, unless you have the rare maverick pharmacy student like me that is willing to do bad at school on principle...your advice probably isn't good...
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree. In no situation except a casual discourse is there an appropriate time to upstage the speaker, especially in public. It's extremely rude and looks very poorly on the accuser, as Mike may have realized. Sometimes you get what you want, yes, but people tend to look poorly upon you.

I'd probably ask a question designed to get him to say something on that, like "You mentioned that you don't believe pharmacists are qualified to recommend OTC drugs. This is interesting to me because I've always felt that the six semesters of pharmacology would uniquely qualify pharmacists for that position. Who would you recommend do that instead?"

There's better ways than screaming "YOU LIE!" at someone.
 
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