Respiratory Therapy & Anesthesiology

[TLPRRT]

Are these two careers for the most part similar in many aspects? My goal in life is to become an Anesthesiologist. As for now I'll be finishing up my Bachelors in Respiratory Therapy. After reading a lot on Anesthesia it seems as though the two careers have a lot of similarities - which I was unaware of prior to starting respiratory. Just curious. Thank you for your replies. 🙂

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[chfo]

They both involve lungs and vents, but the similarities stop there.

 

[pgg]

Are these two careers for the most part similar in many aspects? My goal in life is to become an Anesthesiologist. As for now I'll be finishing up my Bachelors in Respiratory Therapy. After reading a lot on Anesthesia it seems as though the two careers have a lot of similarities - which I was unaware of prior to starting respiratory. Just curious. Thank you for your replies. 🙂

Well you've got a BS behind you, so you're 4/12 of the way to being an anesthesiologist, assuming you have the med school prerequisite classes done.

A shift to nursing and then CRNA is a shorter path.

RT and anesthesia are very different fields. There's not much overlap.

 

[RT2MD]

I'm just in my 1st year of medical school, but I worked for 5 years as an RT. In my opinion, I think that having an RT background helps out a lot during medical school. I am currently in the middle of our cardio-pulm module, and I feel that I have a great leg up on many of my classmates... Since I have a decent understanding of the basics, it allows me to focus on the details a lot more.

How my background will help with my goal of becoming an anesthesiologist is still to be determined. I would THINK that it will help, but I obviously don't know.

I think that pgg made a good point. If it's JUST anesthesia that you are interested in, CRNA/AA isn't a bad route. I heavily considered AA school, but at the end of the day I realized that medical school was the better route for me. This was not an easy choice for me to make, since I am significantly older than most of my classmates and I have a 3 year old daughter (and now twin boys on the way). The length of training, etc, of the AA program was very appealing to me, but I realized that I wouldn't be happy in the long run.

Right now, I would just suggest that you focus on learning the material that you are being taught. After graduation, try and get a job where you can get involved in a bunch of different areas. Try and find people that are interested in teaching. Sometimes I think that I've learned more after graduation than I did in school.

Good luck, hope it all works out well for you!

 

[keregg228]

I am a RRT. I also work as an Anesthesia tech.

I have gotten into AA and med school and chose AA (I start this summer/fall).

I think RRT helps a lot more towards AA than MDA.

The airway management you learn as an RRT makes up a larger portion of the knowledge base required to be an AA. An AA is primarily an Anesthetist. The general knowledge base to diagnosis and provide tx is not learned. Obviously a lot of diseases and disease processes are learned to enable you to do anesthesia, but you are primarily there to do anesthesia. The job of a MDA is not to just supervise the CRNA’s/AA’s. Shadow an MDA and you’ll see the difference. (Watch them work up patients to see if they can make it through a procedure/anesthesia for the procedure etc.)

The stuff you learn as a RRT is only going to help in a MD program concerning the cardio pulmonary system (a and p), listening to breath sounds, intubating, and placing arterial lines. If you work in a MD specialty that requires you to manage vents being a RRT would be helpful. It is better than nothing but not going to make a big difference (maybe in years 3 and 4 it will help).

If you are applying to med school make sure you have at least 3 LOR. Keep at least a 3.5 and take the MCAT your junior year.

The average MCAT score is a 30.7 the average Matriculate to MD programs has a 31. Average student studies 40 hours a week for 2-3 months. 80% of MCAT test takes have taken a prep course or used the material from one.

Be prepared. Have everything done the summer b4 your senior year, or prepare for a year or two working as a RRT


Best of luck whatever you chose.

 

[poresofkohn]

A shift to nursing and then CRNA is a shorter path.

This is true....but it pisses me off. A brandy new grad RT has a far better understanding of mechanical ventilation, AW management, blood gas analysis and hemodynamics than many, MANY, experienced ICU nurses. I still maintain that RRT's make a better candidate for learning non-physician provided anesthesia than RN's do.

 

[Mman]

This is true....but it pisses me off. A brandy new grad RT has a far better understanding of mechanical ventilation, AW management, blood gas analysis and hemodynamics than many, MANY, experienced ICU nurses. I still maintain that RRT's make a better candidate for learning non-physician provided anesthesia than RN's do.

hemodynamics?

really?

 

[Johnisit1234]

i was confused by the hemodynamics part as well. i am an anesthesia resident at a major academic medical center. our RTs, while very helpful on many levels, leave the hemodynamics to the physicians and nurses in the unit. the use of pressors, the effect of induction medications on HD stability, the reasoning behind using various medications for maintaining or lowering BP, and the cause of HD instability, etc is usually not the forte of your normal RT. Interpreting ABGs, yes. A/W management, yes. Vents, of course. But interpreting and monitoring hemodynamics....

 

[El Dooderino]

I am a RRT. I also work as an Anesthesia tech.

I have gotten into AA and med school and chose AA (I start this summer/fall).

I think RRT helps a lot more towards AA than MDA.

The airway management you learn as an RRT makes up a larger portion of the knowledge base required to be an AA. An AA is primarily an Anesthetist. The general knowledge base to diagnosis and provide tx is not learned. Obviously a lot of diseases and disease processes are learned to enable you to do anesthesia, but you are primarily there to do anesthesia. The job of a MDA is not to just supervise the CRNA’s/AA’s. Shadow an MDA and you’ll see the difference. (Watch them work up patients to see if they can make it through a procedure/anesthesia for the procedure etc.)

The stuff you learn as a RRT is only going to help in a MD program concerning the cardio pulmonary system (a and p), listening to breath sounds, intubating, and placing arterial lines. If you work in a MD specialty that requires you to manage vents being a RRT would be helpful. It is better than nothing but not going to make a big difference (maybe in years 3 and 4 it will help).

If you are applying to med school make sure you have at least 3 LOR. Keep at least a 3.5 and take the MCAT your junior year.

The average MCAT score is a 30.7 the average Matriculate to MD programs has a 31. Average student studies 40 hours a week for 2-3 months. 80% of MCAT test takes have taken a prep course or used the material from one.

Be prepared. Have everything done the summer b4 your senior year, or prepare for a year or two working as a RRT


Best of luck whatever you chose.

do people like you realize how dumb you sound when you use the term "MDA"

 

[RT2MD]

This is true....but it pisses me off. A brandy new grad RT has a far better understanding of mechanical ventilation, AW management, blood gas analysis and hemodynamics than many, MANY, experienced ICU nurses. I still maintain that RRT's make a better candidate for learning non-physician provided anesthesia than RN's do.

I hate to go against a fellow RT, but I have to agree with the others. I think that RTs have much better understanding of MV/AW management/ABGs than an experienced ICU nurse, but I don't think that true hemodynamic management is a strong point of RTs. In my opinion, this is just due to the nature of our work... we aren't the ones titrating pressors, etc.

Do we know the ventilatory effects on hemodynamics better than the average nurse? Well... maybe so, I knew some nurses on top of their game that had figured out how pos/neg pressure breathing affected the different sides of the heart. I can admit that when it came to hemodynamic management, they knew more than I. I also worked with some awesome nurses that would teach me everything that they knew, and I would do the same - an extra set of eyes keeping watch never hurts!

To the OP, if you have any questions on why I chose MD over AA, etc... feel free to ask! It's nice that you have keregg228 here that can give you insight from the other side. I can tell you that I didn't do anywhere NEAR the MCAT prep that he said, though!

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Like I said, if you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

-RT2MD

 

[Paseo Del Norte]

hemodynamics?

really?

As a nurse who will begin the final semester of a respiratory programme in January, I would say this is partially true. Certainly, a new grad RRT would better understand haemodynamics than a new grad RN. Add experience into the mix and I would say it's a mixed bag IMHO.

However, we spent a solid month on haemodynamics in RT school versus a few day in nursing school. Then again, nursing was a very broad and superficial survey of health care versus a very focused course of study in respiratory school.

The biggest concept I see is that we covered the psychomotor aspects of haemodynamics quite well in respiratory school. In that, we know the process of insertion, the pressures and waveforms encountered during insertion and normal operation along with the normal values. Where I would question is looking at haemodynamics in the "big picture" of patient care. As others have stated, incorporating haemodynamic knowledge into the big picture and doing things such as titrating meds and providing non-respiratory interventions may not pan out as much.

Of course, I have no idea how this translates to preparing to practice as a non-physician provider. My thoughts (n=1 and anecdotal) for what they are worth.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

i was confused by the hemodynamics part as well. i am an anesthesia resident at a major academic medical center. our RTs, while very helpful on many levels, leave the hemodynamics to the physicians and nurses in the unit. the use of pressors, the effect of induction medications on HD stability, the reasoning behind using various medications for maintaining or lowering BP, and the cause of HD instability, etc is usually not the forte of your normal RT. Interpreting ABGs, yes. A/W management, yes. Vents, of course. But interpreting and monitoring hemodynamics....

My experience is that RT's know very little about airway management. I do not mean this as a slight at all. Sure they know about intubating and there are places where they do all the tubes but airway management is a MUCH more involved process than sticking a tube in.

 

[RT2MD]

My experience is that RT's know very little about airway management. I do not mean this as a slight at all. Sure they know about intubating and there are places where they do all the tubes but airway management is a MUCH more involved process than sticking a tube in.

Arch,
I don't doubt that you know WAAYYYY more about airway management than I did as an RT, but I will defend that I knew more about general airway management than 99% of the ICU nurses. The way I look at it now is that I have a handle on the basics, and I'm ready to learn a whole hell of a lot more!

Respectfully,
RT2MD
(Oh, and no offense taken!)😀

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Arch,
I don't doubt that you know WAAYYYY more about airway management than I did as an RT, but I will defend that I knew more about general airway management than 99% of the ICU nurses. The way I look at it now is that I have a handle on the basics, and I'm ready to learn a whole hell of a lot more!

Respectfully,
RT2MD
(Oh, and no offense taken!)😀

I would put it at closer to 100%😀.

A good RT is very valuable.

Outside of delivering patients to the ICU and ICU rotations, my main interaction with the RT's was under urgent-type situations where folks needed to be intubated usually. Unfortunately, I wasn't too impressed with their ability to manage things prior to arrival. Caveat, n=1.

 

[RT2MD]

I would put it at closer to 100%😀.

A good RT is very valuable.

Outside of delivering patients to the ICU and ICU rotations, my main interaction with the RT's was under urgent-type situations where folks needed to be intubated usually. Unfortunately, I wasn't too impressed with their ability to manage things prior to arrival. Caveat, n=1.

I didn't want to sound egotistical...

I can only speak to where I have worked, which have been large academic institutions - I've never intubated since graduation. This was due to the fact that there were always anesthesia residents that needed to get numbers. We (as RTs) weren't even allowed to manage an already placed LMA. If there was a code on the floor and Anesthesia couldn't intubate, and they dropped in an LMA, they (MD/DO or, if needed, a CRNA) had to stay with the patient until a more definitive airway was in place... which of course didn't go over so well when the resident had been pulled away from a room.

The only thing that I was worried about was *properly* bagging the patient, and making sure that all the equipment for intubation was being assembled (usually by a coworker) for when a resident/staff showed up and saved the day! 😀

About as far as my airway management skills went were:
1) ensuring stability of airway during transport
2) recognizing a displaced artificial airway
3) assisting with intubation/bedside trach
4) properly utilizing a Bag and Mask to ventilate a patient with cardio/respiratory failure
5) knowing where we kept the fiberoptic bronch cart when the poo hit the fan

oh yeah... I guess I knew how to do chronic trach care as well!

Again, no offense taken - the way I see it, the odds of an anesthesiologist being impressed at the airway management skills of a much less trained/experienced person is slim to none.

Wow... I'm in a talkative mood tonight. Can you tell that I'm trying to procrastinate studying for my test on Tuesday? 😎

 

[poresofkohn]

hemodynamics?

really?

Oh sure....but let me clarify. After re-reading my post I realize I didn't make myself clear. First, I'm in no way comparing an RT with an MD, notice I said we make better candidates to learn Non-Physician anesthesia. There is also a large variance in department responsibilities between hospitals, not to mention the difference between academic programs. (Like every other practitioner I suppose) So the education and experience one receives can vary tremendously. I got an associates degree prior to the BS in respiratory. The community college I got the AAS at is considered a rigorous program...we had "advanced" cardiopulmonary A&P, which included hemodynamics, I guess a typical exam would include several questions that showed a normal pressure tracing and along that tracing somewhere would be an indicator asking "where is the tip of the catheter now?" and the like. We also learned the phisiologic concequences of postive pressure ventilation, in terms of cardiac output. I guess I feel we got a solid fundamental understanding of the phisiology. Seems like a good foundation.

 

[poresofkohn]

I hate to go against a fellow RT, but I have to agree with the others. I think that RTs have much better understanding of MV/AW management/ABGs than an experienced ICU nurse, but I don't think that true hemodynamic management is a strong point of RTs. In my opinion, this is just due to the nature of our work... we aren't the ones titrating pressors, etc.

Do we know the ventilatory effects on hemodynamics better than the average nurse? Well... maybe so, I knew some nurses on top of their game that had figured out how pos/neg pressure breathing affected the different sides of the heart. I can admit that when it came to hemodynamic management, they knew more than I. I also worked with some awesome nurses that would teach me everything that they knew, and I would do the same - an extra set of eyes keeping watch never hurts!

Without a doubt, its not a typical responsibility your average RT would have. However many ECMO pumps are run by RT's these days, and it's not because of the AARC's lobbying power. LOL!😀 A crappy nurse is worth about as much as a crappy therapist, but with a solid, knowlegable RN/RT team, the quality of care skyrockets.

CONGRATS BTW!! Twins eh?!? You, my man, are a machine. My third is due in Feb. No better feeling! 2010 has been a great year for me so far, I was promoted to director of cardiopulmonary services a few months ago, I guess any mid level aspirations are(permanently?) on hold. It's a good fit though and the compensation increase and M-F thing isn't so bad either!

 

[poresofkohn]

I would put it at closer to 100%😀.

A good RT is very valuable.

Outside of delivering patients to the ICU and ICU rotations, my main interaction with the RT's was under urgent-type situations where folks needed to be intubated usually. Unfortunately, I wasn't too impressed with their ability to manage things prior to arrival. Caveat, n=1.

So many variables; education value, responsibilities, accountability...It took me 3 jobs and 5 years to find a clinnically oriented department. Task oriented "neb jockeys" are all to often the norm.

 

[Dogdaze]

keregg228: "I think RRT helps a lot more towards AA than MDA."


I know a guy who knows a guy who'll take care of you if you ever say "MDA" again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SouthSideSteve]

.we had "advanced" cardiopulmonary A&P, which included hemodynamics, I guess a typical exam would include several questions that showed a normal pressure tracing and along that tracing somewhere would be an indicator asking "where is the tip of the catheter now?" and the like.

Knowing PAC tracings and that PPV decreases venous return doesn't necessarily equate to understanding hemodynamics and the effects drugs/interventions have on it.

Kind of disappointed in myself for even being involved in this pissing contest.

 

[RT2MD]

Without a doubt, its not a typical responsibility your average RT would have. However many ECMO pumps are run by RT's these days, and it's not because of the AARC's lobbying power. LOL!😀 A crappy nurse is worth about as much as a crappy therapist, but with a solid, knowlegable RN/RT team, the quality of care skyrockets.

CONGRATS BTW!! Twins eh?!? You, my man, are a machine. My third is due in Feb. No better feeling! 2010 has been a great year for me so far, I was promoted to director of cardiopulmonary services a few months ago, I guess any mid level aspirations are(permanently?) on hold. It's a good fit though and the compensation increase and M-F thing isn't so bad either!

Thanks for the congrats, nothing like paying daycare for 3 on one income!

Congrats to you as well, it is a great feeling. I hope that the directory position treats you well... just be sure that, if it's not what you really want to do, it doesn't stand in the way of your dreams. It sounds like you found yourself a great department, that's a hard thing to leave. The department that I left was very clinically oriented (I was an ECMO specialist, once the pulm docs trusted you - you could practically run the vents, etc). It was hard for me to leave, but I knew that it wouldn't take me long to not be happy. Even mired in the the basic sciences now, I don't regret my choice for a second.

Good luck to you!

 

[docsleeper]

keregg228: "I think RRT helps a lot more towards AA than MDA."


I know a guy who knows a guy who'll take care of you if you ever say "MDA" again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds ridiculous. Like were physicians with asterik next to our names. Funny thing is I saw a nurse anesthetist write MDA on anesthesia record when talking about anesthesiologist intubating. We all dislike the term but in all the ASA journals and newsletters in the back under job classified ads, some ads say Wanted MDA . I would never apply for job that advertises like that. Absolutely insane. Where did that Abbreviation come from?

 

[El Dooderino]

Sounds ridiculous. Like were physicians with asterik next to our names. Funny thing is I saw a nurse anesthetist write MDA on anesthesia record when talking about anesthesiologist intubating. We all dislike the term but in all the ASA journals and newsletters in the back under job classified ads, some ads say Wanted MDA . I would never apply for job that advertises like that. Absolutely insane. Where did that Abbreviation come from?

Insecure nurses and RT's I guess

 

[leviathan]

Much respect to nurses but the CV physiology pharm and path taught in the RRT degree program is way more detailed than any RN gets. The physiology was at probably on par with what we covered in med school, though the pathology and pharm not so much.

 

[RT2MD]

Much respect to nurses but the CV physiology pharm and path taught in the RRT degree program is way more detailed than any RN gets. The physiology was at probably on par with what we covered in med school, though the pathology and pharm not so much.

Wow 😱 You must have gone to one HELL of an RT school. While I had a decent foundation with my phys, we covered a LOT more in detail (ie. the various currents/effects of electrolyte imbalances to those currents/etc.) in medical school than RT school.

I (to continue with the "pissing match", which I view more as an expression of my opinion) have to agree with your assessment of RN vs RT schooling. I think that RT school provides a much more in depth teaching during school than nursing school. I worked a lot in the CVICU of a major academic program (transplants, etc) and those nurses had a lot of additional training in cardio phys, etc. than the average grad, though. My opinion is that this is just a byproduct of the type of training. Nursing has to be much less in depth than RT b/c they have a lot more "area" to cover. RT school is only focusing on the heart/lungs and some kidneys... we are given a lot more time to focus on the details of those organ systems. I'm not trying to say that one is better than the other, just different.

As far as which gives a better base for a midlevel anesthesia provider??? Well... I dunno. I think that if you took 2 people of the same intelligence, work ethic, drive, etc... and put one of them through a nursing program and the other through an RT program... then let them work for a couple of years in the same environment - I'd venture to say that they are about the same.

I almost think that we have scared off TLPRRT... and we have also gotten sufficiently off topic! My apologies for that!

Regards,
RT2MD

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Without a doubt, its not a typical responsibility your average RT would have. However many ECMO pumps are run by RT's these days, and it's not because of the AARC's lobbying power. LOL!😀 A crappy nurse is worth about as much as a crappy therapist, but with a solid, knowlegable RN/RT team, the quality of care skyrockets.

CONGRATS BTW!! Twins eh?!? You, my man, are a machine. My third is due in Feb. No better feeling! 2010 has been a great year for me so far, I was promoted to director of cardiopulmonary services a few months ago, I guess any mid level aspirations are(permanently?) on hold. It's a good fit though and the compensation increase and M-F thing isn't so bad either!

Hiyo! Well-played, sir.

 

[RT2MD]

Hiyo! Well-played, sir.

Can't believe I didn't pick up on that sooner... I think that I'd choke if I tried to aspirate most of the midlevels that I have met...

 

[Paseo Del Norte]

Much respect to nurses but the CV physiology pharm and path taught in the RRT degree program is way more detailed than any RN gets. The physiology was at probably on par with what we covered in med school, though the pathology and pharm not so much.

I cannot comment on comparing my RRT eduction to medical education; however, I would agree that the pharmacology and physiology was much more detailed than nursing school. We spent a fair amount of time focusing on G proteins, Adenyl Cyclase, Beta Receptor conformation changes and so on. Of course this is the meat of many of the sympathomimetic agents that we administer. We also spent time studying the physics and kinetics of aerosol medications. Of course you have the usual Reynolds number and gas laws, but it was interesting talking about brownian motion, particle impaction, deposition and so on...

However, nursing school covered other topics such as GI & psych, that have not been covered in any detail beyond dietary implications for certain pulmonary/cardiac disorders. I still have another semester, but it will focus on neonatal, paeds and board prep...

 

[zebalong]

im just going to erase my post. As a old RN though it was hard not to put my 2 cents in.

Suffice to say it is the individual that will determine who makes a better anesthesiologist or any type of physician for that matter. No matter what the background- hard work, common sense, and determination will come out on top.