Retirement Discussion

[josebiwasabi]

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I'm curious where others are in their retirement planning journey.

• What age are you planning to retire?
• What is your current retirement portfolio balance, and how much are you saving annually?
• What level of annual spending are you targeting in retirement, and what type of lifestyle are you planning for?

I am 8 years into practice in an academic/hospital-based setting. My spouse and I are both in our late 30s, work full-time, and have one child. Our household income is approximately $500,000 in a HCOL area.

Our retirement accounts currently total about $1.6 million. We maximize our 401(k)/403(b) contributions, receive a 5-6% employer match, and also contribute to IRAs each year. In addition, we are building taxable brokerage investments to bridge us between when we retire early until we reach 59.5.

My current goal is to reduce to part-time work around age 50, ideally working about two days per week (potentially in a largely administrative or non-clinical role) for 3-5 years before fully retiring. During that transition period, we would use my part-time income along with taxable investments to support our lifestyle while allowing retirement accounts additional time to grow. We contribute $12,000 per year to our daughter's 529, and projections show that it should be worth around $350,000 by the time she is 18, so we should have minimal out-of-pocket expenses for her college education.

We are aiming for a FAT FIRE-style retirement. Based on several retirement models and calculators, net worth should exceed $6 million by retirement, which should comfortably support annual spending of approximately $200,000. Our vision for retirement centers on slow travel: taking several international trips each year and spending anywhere from a few weeks to a month in a location to experience the culture more deeply rather than simply vacationing and visiting all the touristy spots.

One significant milestone is that I will become eligible for Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) in two years, which should meaningfully improve our cash flow and accelerate our savings goals.

We have been able to accelerate our retirement savings by maintaining a fairly modest lifestyle relative to our income. For example, we only replaced my wife's 2008 Honda a couple years ago, and I still drive a 2014 Toyota. We typically take one larger trip each year (e.g., Hawaii or Mexico) along with several smaller domestic trips.

I'd be interested to hear where others are in their careers and retirement planning process. What does your path to retirement look like?

 

[Sendin_Toes_2market]

Hospital employed.

I am not going to retire. Will do part time non surgical at 67. That way if I ever have a major medical event my $1 million disability insurance kicks in. My roth should be 750k-1m by late 40’s.
(I think 7-9% of my income I invest in my roth or the market).

I am focused more on investing in real estate than traditional retirement. Our total income is $350k this year, I am only one who works. We drive new vehicles about 40k each. We live in LCOL area.

 

[Dermato Fight Club]

I'm curious where others are in their retirement planning journey.

• What age are you planning to retire?
• What is your current retirement portfolio balance, and how much are you saving annually?
• What level of annual spending are you targeting in retirement, and what type of lifestyle are you planning for?

I am 8 years into practice in an academic/hospital-based setting. My spouse and I are both in our late 30s, work full-time, and have one child. Our household income is approximately $500,000 in a HCOL area.

Our retirement accounts currently total about $1.6 million. We maximize our 401(k)/403(b) contributions, receive a 5-6% employer match, and also contribute to IRAs each year. In addition, we are building taxable brokerage investments to bridge us between when we retire early until we reach 59.5.

My current goal is to reduce to part-time work around age 50, ideally working about two days per week (potentially in a largely administrative or non-clinical role) for 3-5 years before fully retiring. During that transition period, we would use my part-time income along with taxable investments to support our lifestyle while allowing retirement accounts additional time to grow. We contribute $12,000 per year to our daughter's 529, and projections show that it should be worth around $350,000 by the time she is 18, so we should have minimal out-of-pocket expenses for her college education.

We are aiming for a FAT FIRE-style retirement. Based on several retirement models and calculators, net worth should exceed $6 million by retirement, which should comfortably support annual spending of approximately $200,000. Our vision for retirement centers on slow travel: taking several international trips each year and spending anywhere from a few weeks to a month in a location to experience the culture more deeply rather than simply vacationing and visiting all the touristy spots.

One significant milestone is that I will become eligible for Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) in two years, which should meaningfully improve our cash flow and accelerate our savings goals.

We have been able to accelerate our retirement savings by maintaining a fairly modest lifestyle relative to our income. For example, we only replaced my wife's 2008 Honda a couple years ago, and I still drive a 2014 Toyota. We typically take one larger trip each year (e.g., Hawaii or Mexico) along with several smaller domestic trips.

I'd be interested to hear where others are in their careers and retirement planning process. What does your path to retirement look like?

Congrats! You're set. You're now in the super boring part of just letting your money compound. I realize you're continuing to contribute but you will likely be coast FIRE in a a couple years and can stop investing, freeing up even more money. Be prepared for this stage of life because it does get pretty boring (financially speaking. Watching my kids grow is so much fun). All our lives we were working for the next goal and now it seems like we've won but are in this waiting game of letting our money do its thing.

I'm similar to you. About 15 years out of residency and have 3 kids. We have full ride scholarships to state college for 2 of them with 529 balances projected at 150k at 18 and for the third we didn't do the scholarship and are projecting about 250k at 18 in her 529. You can also likely stop contributing to the 529 unless you're expecting another kid along the way. 350k should be plenty.

I'm early 40's net worth 4.3M and retirement accounts of 1.6M. My cheat code is a wife that works remotely so she can still do a lot of the everyday stuff with the kids and bring home a starting podiatry salary (according to Marit).

I'm planning on retiring (from podiatry) at 50 when my youngest graduates high school. We currently max out our roths/and 401ks. I should have about 5M at 50 after selling assets. I could retire completely and live off my wife's salary alone. She has a low stress job that she can do from anywhere in the world with an internet connection.

I've thought about this life and figured that I might be bored and may want to do something. I started law school 1.5 years ago and am hoping to maybe use that degree to find some remote job so my wife and I can travel and continue to let our balances compound. Our extremely high shoot for the moon target goal is 10M to fully retire but to be honest if we are working 4-5 hours a day or so remotely and are able to travel wherever/whenever why retire at all?

But yes. I run monte carlo simulations all day long and I know we are in great shape. I am planning on spending about 35k/month in retirement.

 

[Stormblest]

2 years out. Mid 30s with a bunch of kids so I’ll likely be working till I’m 65 or so. Take home about low to mid 300s before taxes. Expect this to get up to 400 or more as I’ve only gotten busier. Only maxing 401k for now since I have loans to pay off but should be done by around year 6 or so since hospital gives me 25k/year loan repayment. LCOL.

 

[Bluecollarmed]

Not even close as I'm only in my 2nd year out but I'm doing as much as I can early. Max 403b, 457, HSA with employer contribution of 2k/year, max backdoor Roth IRA for myself and SAHM, and approximately 30-40k of brokerage and/or emergency fund per year. PSLF eligible employed at hospital. About 360k this year + profit sharing bonus (if we do it this year, not always). Unfortunately the 403b match is only 3% and none on the 457. Ideally I'll contribute 100k+ per year to retirement and see where it gets us in a decade. 529 contributions for one child about 10k per year. Honestly the hardest part of this is keeping a SAHM sane. She's got lots of ideas of how to spend money lol.

 

[Adam Smasher]

costs go up
reimbursements go down
work gets harder
days get longer
years get leaner
toenails get thicker

 

[Stormblest]

Not even close as I'm only in my 2nd year out but I'm doing as much as I can early. Max 403b, 457, HSA with employer contribution of 2k/year, max backdoor Roth IRA for myself and SAHM, and approximately 30-40k of brokerage and/or emergency fund per year. PSLF eligible employed at hospital. About 360k this year + profit sharing bonus (if we do it this year, not always). Unfortunately the 403b match is only 3% and none on the 457. Ideally I'll contribute 100k+ per year to retirement and see where it gets us in a decade. 529 contributions for one child about 10k per year. Honestly the hardest part of this is keeping a SAHM sane. She's got lots of ideas of how to spend money lol.

Same, always some new upgrade, decoration or project they are finding. Don’t mind too much because we are comfortable. We both grew up kinda poor so we don’t have any expensive hobbies or used to traveling abroad all the time. Maybe someday after kids are grown.

 

[Feli]

Good topic... esp with how hot the market has been.
I think a lot of you are better and closer than you think. Chances are you are planning too long... for a few reasons.
The two books to read are Die with Zero (Perkins) for psych/timing of retire and Your Money or Your Life (Dominguez /Robin) for the classic FIRE anti-materialism and realizing your time is your true commodity and why to save.

For us personally:

• Probably a bit ahead on stock/cash compared to most our age (due to no kids) but less house/vehicle/etc (due to no kids).
• We are sitting with maybe 2.5m stocks roughly 75/25 index/singles, 0.5m cash. We make maybe 600k-700k/yr (two thirds income and 80% invest $ is her).
• We don't count paid off house, cars, my biz, "stuff," etc... not really substantial, and won't be selling anyways.
• No debt. She already paid college/cars for nieces.
• We plan to do the roughly 4% withdraw rate for age 40s/50s, bump to 5% or so once on SS/MCR at 65, and probably move higher 6% withdraw or so later in retire (depends on market, obviously). We'll definitely buy some annuity to have less decisions what/when to sell, waiting for rates to rise but have ones picked out. In reality, you just take out what you need and lower it in bad markets or usually flex it up in good ones.

We are now, and have been, doing what OP @josebiwasabi said: putting nearly all into taxable (cash) stock accounts for years now. The 401 and Roth aren't useful until 59yo, so we do my Roth and then her 401 only to match level (rest goes to cash stock accts now). That is key. We will have the cash/taxable as biggest accounts soon. Most people will travel and dine out a LOT in early retire, and health insurance costs quite a bit of money; you need accessible funds for that timespan. Plus the 401/403 nonsense has crap choices and you don't know the tax rate as it's in the future, so you aren't looking at real numbers (of course that's still our biggest accounts, though).

One thing a lot of people are not planning for is our dear friend AI. It will be huge. It already is huge. Just because it barely affects podiatry beyond maybe chart notes, we probably underestimate it. You don't have to be super tech-savvy to see the "recursive self improvement" writing on the wall here. A year ago, AI coding was maybe 2x or 3x as fast as humans. Now, more like 50x faster. The AI flies major passenger planes 90% of the time, does basically any secretary/logistics/analytics/math job increasingly well. We've all had those phone calls or chat with customer service where it's harder than ever to tell if it was AI or a person. It does more and more of the warehouse/factory stuff, and It will only expand. There is already talk of how to pump the brakes to avoid AI enslaving and/or nuking us, but every company/country will want an edge and keep pushing it. Not joking, read the link. That is your world leader AI company (at least for now?).
Basically A whooole lot of things will get cheaper soon. A whole whooole lot of people will be out of work (or minimally useful). I can walk through my hospital cafeteria or almost any business and pick out people who are probably out of a job in five years, some even less. There will very likely have to be some guaranteed basic income in our lifetime (SS won't get taken away, that was "earned"). There will be a fairly permanent rich/poor gap. It' be very hard to start a biz or rise up when few actual workers are needed and companies have large production or service lines with pretty minimal human labor costs. Between that and many things getting cheaper as they are AI produced/sold/delivered, it will be a new world. Do not underestimate this. It's happening exponential, not linear rate. And yeah, we fully plan to trade the Anthropic IPO and stock price flux pretty hard around the end of this year. 🙂

...I have been increasingly interested in the psychology of retire. That is nearly as important as the $$$ part.
We have a ~2-3month two driving trip with about a dozen states and dozens of stops planned already (to take right after retire... to snap us into the new mindset that it's a different and new life now). Retirement in spring or into early summer when the weather is getting nice is the obvious play (makes your income tax that last year much lower to only work ~Q1). Mainly, there is also the reality that retirement (health) may not last as long as you think it may (see Die with Zero book). Most of us in our 40s have already probably had a few "warning shots" from our body or put on some weight. I know I have had a couple health issues, probably from work stress, in my 40s that I'd never have even thought of in my 20s or 30s. 😛
In line with that, for the "part-time" work, I am staunchly against that. That's just me. I think the "semi-retirement" or that is not really possible for what we do. For a few employed DPMs (or owner/partner with really good colleagues?), maybe it is a bit more viable if good enough call/messages/clinic/etc coverage, but absolutely not for me. I miss tons of revenue whenever I'm out for even a day or half day, and I will STILL have all the messages, Rx refills, employee needs, callbacks for surgery pts or other docs or whatever etc waiting for me anyway. I can't even take a half day to go to dentist without a pile of messages to take care of when I get back to the office. I wake up thinking of work on the weekends sometimes. I get calls from ER or surgery patients when I'm relaxing. I don't pretend it's easy. So no, I can't just cut a day per week. No way. While it might be semi-possible for some, but I want my mental space totally freeee of all that junk at some point. I went to 4d/wk of pts awhile ago, and I will just do that until retire. Jmo.

... I am planning on spending about 35k/month in retirement.

You've always been a baller, tho. 😎

...I've thought about this life and figured that I might be bored and may want to do something. ...

I don't see this happening.

When I talk to my dad and most interesting retired people who've been retired - even for decades, they all still say "not enough hours in the day."
The only ones I see who are grumpsters and complain of nothing to do are usually disabled, bad health (or spouse had bad health), or just super grouchy ones who sit and watch TV all day (usually bad health). Even most of the people on SSecurity or low fixed income retirement re usually pretty healthy as long as they have their mobility to go for walks, fishing, go to free shows and events around town, whatever... "If you don't have your health, you don't have anything."

If anything, I'm making a list of my "maybe" hobbies or goals that I could do if I'm ever caught up, but there are honestly sooo many things I like already and dont have time for now (fitness, camping, hiking, sports, hobbies, all that). Fitness alone takes 20hr/wk done properly (run/cardio a couple days, weights most days, yoga/sports some days, meal preps); I do nowhere near that right now. We always have endless house/yard work and travel. We have a growing list of trips to take. I have a ton of puzzles, drone to fly, guns to shoot, video games, cued up shows/movies, various things I haven't hardly touched. Before the internet, I get it (maybe) that we get bored, but now... there are basically endless options. Boring people get bored.

Rather than running out of things to do, I think a major injury or illness is the real scare (Die with Zero book). This thinking is what prompted me a long time ago to start saving, planning, quit buying as much. I see people every week (I'm sure we all do) who are basically fine... then suddenly in a wheelchair, had a stroke, had a fall, having ACL surgery, found out they have cancer, broken hip, whatever. That's lame. We all know there is nothing we can do for those patients who just want a STJ injection or a brace or a pain cream that'll help them hunt Africa again or go see Italy or even just have a winter of bowling league one more time... but those solution are not real - even if they have millions in the bank. Health is the first wealth. 🤔

 

[Homo sapien]

I've only been out just under 5 years, and had some stuff in the past with health and dying parents where I had to spend money, but

Salary: 125k with fluctuating bonus- most i ever got 3 years ago was 50k bonus added on

Investments: taxable brokerage with about 110k, got a job with 401k for the first time this year so it's low for now, like 22k in an IRA, plus a high yield savings

Have a long term partner but she makes basic money (hospital cook) and we don't want kids

as far as retirement every paycheck I dump a certain sum into 401k and every month I deploy some into my brokerage. All index funds in the IRA, 85/15 funds/ solo in the brokerage.


I'm just turned 33 I'll just keep going and see what happens. Neither of us really live much baller lifestyles. She knits and I make model ships

 

[air bud]

I have a 2 donkeys I could sell for maybe 500 total. And a beanie baby collection maybe 100k. Then let's say 5k for my bourbon collection. That's my retirement

 

[Bluecollarmed]

I have a 2 donkeys I could sell for maybe 500 total. And a beanie baby collection maybe 100k. Then let's say 5k for my bourbon collection. That's my retirement

We all know there's a plane and a private runway in the mountains with a view from your backyard

 

[Boba Foot]

I have a 2 donkeys I could sell for maybe 500 total. And a beanie baby collection maybe 100k. Then let's say 5k for my bourbon collection. That's my retirement

How does your vinyl collection compare to mine though?

 

[air bud]

How does your vinyl collection compare to mine though?

View attachment 420622

I have a bunch of scratched Waylon Jennings and roger miller records. 20 bucks?

 

[Boba Foot]

I have a bunch of scratched Waylon Jennings and roger miller records. 20 bucks?

Good pick on the Waylon

 

[BubbaWub]

How do you guys have this much in retirement?! My employer doesn't even offer a 401k plan, I have been asking him for years but his wife (office manager) isn't permitting us to get one. You guys are really well off, congratulations! I am proud some podiatrists are capable of reaching measures like this.

I am very close to paying off my student loans after all these years, but will be doing so shortly, then I will be at a net worth positive! I am looking forward to this.

Thank you

 

[air bud]

I can't wait for @Retrograde_Nail to come in and tell us how much he's going to have once crypto moons again

 

[DarkPathMedicine]

How do you guys have this much in retirement?! My employer doesn't even offer a 401k plan, I have been asking him for years but his wife (office manager) isn't permitting us to get one. You guys are really well off, congratulations! I am proud some podiatrists are capable of reaching measures like this.

I am very close to paying off my student loans after all these years, but will be doing so shortly, then I will be at a net worth positive! I am looking forward to this.

Thank you

I'm in the same boat. Just a few more student loans payment and I'm done with it forever. Then finally I can breathe and start saving, investing, and do whatever comes next. It's quite an inspiration to hear from the really successful people here. Congratulations to all of you.

 

[Feli]

I'm in the same boat. Just a few more student loans payment and I'm done with it forever. Then finally I can breathe and start saving, investing, and do whatever comes next. It's quite an inspiration to hear from the really successful people here. Congratulations to all of you.

You are doing it right, though... all grads should really be doing is basic EF, Roth and pay down student loans asap (and 401/403 to any match level, if available).
After that is done, it's whatever, but the student loan interest is way too high to be doing much else right now. 👍

That was all I did: Roth and pay loans awhile (cashed out smallish matched 401k from hospital job to start my office). The student loans were debatable at 2.4% when I graduated (you could go 50/50 or whatever with loans/invest), but now it's the obvious guaranteed return rate option at about 7% interest.

And date whoever but try to prefer long term relationships with ppl with their financial house in order. Never hurts. 🙂

 

[wakaflocka88]

I’m boring
Index fund
But through work a mix of myself and work puts in almost $70k into 401k a yesr
Pension plan that is at 5.5%, after 3 years, lump sum rolls into 401k. Rinse and repeat. It’s really sweet

 

[DYK343]

Max out 401k/457B (+ match)
Max out HSA
Max out IRA/spousal IRA with backdoor conversion
1k/month 529
1k per paycheck (2k/month) to index fund.

Minus the 529 ive been doing this since I graduated residency. Its all about maxing out tax defered accounts (index is bonus). Do this for a decade and one can retire. I might do podiatry for another 10 years or so mostly because im relatively young and ill get bored if I dont keep doing something. I might joint a private practice and cut some nails 1-2 days a week.

Might work a little longer depending on how the markets go. I want some wealth to pass to the kids. I am afraid of AI and what my kids job prospects will be.

I must say graduating residency in 2017 I hit the jackpot. The markets just have gone up and up minus a small downturn in 2020. Ive been very fortunate.

 

[heybrother]

I've been a good little saver for the last 7 years, but opening my own practice has opened a spending spigot that I can't seem to close. This weekend I found out that all the trees on my office property are trash/invasive/weed trees. So - obviously now I need to cut them down and replace them with beautiful American trees. But my total practice revenus is $57.75 and everyone who has been coming in has Traditional Medicare (yay) but I'm going to have to retroactively bill it because I'm still not enrolled by those actually very efficient people at Novitas/Medicare who have already gotten back to me and resolved issues in my app in under 24 hours.

One of the things I'm really happy about in opening my own practice is no longer having the pathetic 401k that my partner got from some buddy of his. Goodbye American Funds, hello Fidelity or something with Vanguard. Last year my 401k had like $850 in fees - just on my account - and unreturned the market by multiple percent which is a true crime. Try saving money when you aren't offered a S&P 500 or Total Market Index. Its blah.

I've maxed 401k/IRA/HSA and I don't have all the special academic accounts so the rest went into brokerage/index funds. Family spiked the 529 hard enough that I don't need to. I still somewhat regret doing 529 because I'm in Texas and a few years ago I could have done the new version of Texas tomorrow and locked in 4 years of college at a pretty reasonable rate. I probably won't regret it when I ultimately inherit whatever's left in the 529 😉

My big lesson lately - if a family member dies and leaves you money to invest - just put it in the market. Dollar averaging just meant money wasn't in the market getting its multiplier on.

No one's said anything about it, but WSJ has an article basically saying use the Trump accounts to make a future ROTH for your kids.

My kids are young. I figure I'm obligated to work until they at least reach college. My parents really didn't save a dime so its weird to be so different from them. Part of me thinks - maybe I'll still need to provide some financial support for my kids in college / young adult life (ie. keep working) and part of me thinks if I get back on the saving wagon I'll be substantially wealthier than my parents were and it won't be a problem.

 

[dtrack22]

I got a much later start than some of my peers, because I didn’t make more than $110k in a given year until I was 4 years out of residency. That’s what happens when you spend a few years working for different podiatrists then a few years doing locums/doing nothing (covid)/briefly running a solo practice, before getting paid like a doctor at an employed hospital job.

Not quite 40 years old. Primary home is paid off. Have a second property that is a LTR and a third property that is for personal use but identifies as an STR (STR = “active management” = deduct depreciation/some costs from W2 income). I have no expectation that any of these will be a meaningful source of income. Around $350k in equity at the moment on the two non-primary properties, worth around $900k in today’s dollars.

Wife and I have a little less than $700k in 401k/403b accounts. $100k in Roth. $36k in an HSA. 3 kids and their 529s go $30k, $21k, $20k. Could cash flow college so we aren’t shooting for huge balances, but some tax benefits and the ability to convert at least part of any left over money to a Roth is the reason we still fund them.

I have no plans to fully retire before the age of 60, and I won’t be working past the age of 65. I’m hospital employed and so long as I don’t go anywhere, I can cut down to part time without any of the headaches or hassles mentioned by Feli. I would like to reduce my schedule as soon as the last kid is graduated and out of the house, which would be early 50’s. Would consider locums if it looked anything like the market for MD/DO locums coverage.m. Not holding out hope, so I imagine “part time” just means capping clinic or removing days, eliminating a lot of elective surgery, and/or just shifting to a few days of wound care and some of the non-reconstructive surgery that comes with it. But it’s doable, and I’m not sure I would say no to a few hundred grand for a couple of low stress days every week. Or $10k for a week of inpatient coverage on a Locums assignment. A guy can dream.

Edit: I should add that I did have a spouse who worked and paid for living expenses through podiatry school and residency so that student loan debt was minimal and repayment was fast. Also, I bought bitcoin when it was well under $1000 per BTC and ETH when it was in the $20’s. Basically I had crypto before retrograde knew it existed. It ended up being worth hundreds of thousands of dollars (not millions unfortunately) when I unloaded it which is why I don’t have a mortgage on the primary house. I would have student loans paid off by now regardless, but dumb luck is part of the reason we are in a good financial position with only getting paid like an actual doctor for the last 5 years (instead of the full 10 since finishing residency).

 

[Feli]

... im relatively young and ill get bored if I dont keep doing something. I might joint a private practice and cut some nails 1-2 days a week. ...

I would question this. We are much more creative than we think. You will not get bored.
This is in the Your Money or Your Life book (Ch 7)... they talk about the only reason for paid work is income. All other factors (challenge, social, prestige, goals, development, etc etc ) can come from volunteer work, hobbies, whatever. I have a few volunteer ideas, but I think it's under 5% chance I get to them... probably sports/game leagues or stuff like that instead.

Heck, many of you guys have kids... so that a lot of your time spoken for even in retirement to stay in touch, go to their events, all that. You won't get bored.

... I must say graduating residency in 2017 I hit the jackpot. The markets just have gone up and up minus a small downturn in 2020. Ive been very fortunate.

100%... the market has been amazing the recent years. It is awesome.

...but I am open to the possibility it takes a dump right when I retire or shortly after. I'd have to adjust my standard of living down for awhile... and likely for entire retirement. It really changes the trajectory in any calc you run if there are some sizeable negative return years early.
Those are great buy times if you have money (I was in residency and was buying stocks when it was still very crushed from the 2007-09 collapse... $29 TSLA shares). They are crushers when you are retired, though... epecially early years of retirement.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

This all sounds pretty similar to a lot of the stuff from the big MD/DO thread on here. I know there’s the thought that SDN pods are outliers on the top end, but it sounds like a lot of folks are on a good track, so kudos. Rooting for you @CAMBoot

Sometimes I think I’d be close to my retirement number if I’d married my ex who is a sociopathic NP, but given her spending habits I think I’m in a better place financially and certainly mentally.

 

[Hybrocure]

Probably gonna work til death

 

[Boba Foot]

Going for forgiveness on hers and paying mine off as quick as possible.

Go for forgiveness. "Live like a resident" is idiocy when you're not guaranteed to live past 50. Why people punish themselves through youth and health to hoard wealth for when they're old & decrepit and can't enjoy it is beyond me.

 

[Boba Foot]

Probably gonna work til death

Capitalist meatgrinder FTW

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

I got a much later start than some of my peers, because I didn’t make more than $110k in a given year until I was 4 years out of residency. That’s what happens when you spend a few years working for different podiatrists then a few years doing locums/doing nothing (covid)/briefly running a solo practice, before getting paid like a doctor at an employed hospital job.

Not quite 40 years old. Primary home is paid off. Have a second property that is a LTR and a third property that is for personal use but identifies as an STR (STR = “active management” = deduct depreciation/some costs from W2 income). I have no expectation that any of these will be a meaningful source of income. Around $350k in equity at the moment on the two non-primary properties, worth around $900k in today’s dollars.

Wife and I have a little less than $700k in 401k/403b accounts. $100k in Roth. $36k in an HSA. 3 kids and their 529s go $30k, $21k, $20k. Could cash flow college so we aren’t shooting for huge balances, but some tax benefits and the ability to convert at least part of any left over money to a Roth is the reason we still fund them.

I have no plans to fully retire before the age of 60, and I won’t be working past the age of 65. I’m hospital employed and so long as I don’t go anywhere, I can cut down to part time without any of the headaches or hassles mentioned by Feli. I would like to reduce my schedule as soon as the last kid is graduated and out of the house, which would be early 50’s. Would consider locums if it looked anything like the market for MD/DO locums coverage.m. Not holding out hope, so I imagine “part time” just means capping clinic or removing days, eliminating a lot of elective surgery, and/or just shifting to a few days of wound care and some of the non-reconstructive surgery that comes with it. But it’s doable, and I’m not sure I would say no to a few hundred grand for a couple of low stress days every week. Or $10k for a week of inpatient coverage on a Locums assignment. A guy can dream.

Edit: I should add that I did have a spouse who worked and paid for living expenses through podiatry school and residency so that student loan debt was minimal and repayment was fast. Also, I bought bitcoin when it was well under $1000 per BTC and ETH when it was in the $20’s. Basically I had crypto before retrograde knew it existed. It ended up being worth hundreds of thousands of dollars (not millions unfortunately) when I unloaded it which is why I don’t have a mortgage on the primary house. I would have student loans paid off by now regardless, but dumb luck is part of the reason we are in a good financial position with only getting paid like an actual doctor for the last 5 years (instead of the full 10 since finishing residency).

Glad you were transparent about your early crypto fortune helping you pay off your mortgage

I'll go (in practice for 9 years)

700K worth of stocks
220K in 403B
Paid off condo in SoCal that my in-laws live in
170K saved for kids/529

All my crypto positions are in the toilet but still holding. Not buying anymore

Student loans, cars, everything paid off

Only thing we pay are bills and mortgage

I will work for as long as I can go. At least until 65. Prob longer. I feel like once people retire and lose their sense of purpose that is when the machine starts to fall apart.

EDIT: We are a ONE income household and have been for the last 7 of the 9 years I have been working. Wife is an RN but is stay at home mom for the time being

 

[Dr.PatchAdams]

You all are great examples.

In my 30s, 4 years in practice. 750k invested (401k, 403b, brokerage). If I work till 65, pension plus investments should allow for full income replacement.

 

[Sybly]

I'm curious where others are in their retirement planning journey.

• What age are you planning to retire?
• What is your current retirement portfolio balance, and how much are you saving annually?
• What level of annual spending are you targeting in retirement, and what type of lifestyle are you planning for?

I am 8 years into practice in an academic/hospital-based setting. My spouse and I are both in our late 30s, work full-time, and have one child. Our household income is approximately $500,000 in a HCOL area.

Our retirement accounts currently total about $1.6 million. We maximize our 401(k)/403(b) contributions, receive a 5-6% employer match, and also contribute to IRAs each year. In addition, we are building taxable brokerage investments to bridge us between when we retire early until we reach 59.5.

My current goal is to reduce to part-time work around age 50, ideally working about two days per week (potentially in a largely administrative or non-clinical role) for 3-5 years before fully retiring. During that transition period, we would use my part-time income along with taxable investments to support our lifestyle while allowing retirement accounts additional time to grow. We contribute $12,000 per year to our daughter's 529, and projections show that it should be worth around $350,000 by the time she is 18, so we should have minimal out-of-pocket expenses for her college education.

We are aiming for a FAT FIRE-style retirement. Based on several retirement models and calculators, net worth should exceed $6 million by retirement, which should comfortably support annual spending of approximately $200,000. Our vision for retirement centers on slow travel: taking several international trips each year and spending anywhere from a few weeks to a month in a location to experience the culture more deeply rather than simply vacationing and visiting all the touristy spots.

One significant milestone is that I will become eligible for Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) in two years, which should meaningfully improve our cash flow and accelerate our savings goals.

We have been able to accelerate our retirement savings by maintaining a fairly modest lifestyle relative to our income. For example, we only replaced my wife's 2008 Honda a couple years ago, and I still drive a 2014 Toyota. We typically take one larger trip each year (e.g., Hawaii or Mexico) along with several smaller domestic trips.

I'd be interested to hear where others are in their careers and retirement planning process. What does your path to retirement look like?

Nice ! I’m older still working. Never had the opportunities or raped the system….

 

[PeaJay]

I'm curious where others are in their retirement planning journey.

• What age are you planning to retire?
• What is your current retirement portfolio balance, and how much are you saving annually?
• What level of annual spending are you targeting in retirement, and what type of lifestyle are you planning for?

I am 8 years into practice in an academic/hospital-based setting. My spouse and I are both in our late 30s, work full-time, and have one child. Our household income is approximately $500,000 in a HCOL area.

Our retirement accounts currently total about $1.6 million. We maximize our 401(k)/403(b) contributions, receive a 5-6% employer match, and also contribute to IRAs each year. In addition, we are building taxable brokerage investments to bridge us between when we retire early until we reach 59.5.

My current goal is to reduce to part-time work around age 50, ideally working about two days per week (potentially in a largely administrative or non-clinical role) for 3-5 years before fully retiring. During that transition period, we would use my part-time income along with taxable investments to support our lifestyle while allowing retirement accounts additional time to grow. We contribute $12,000 per year to our daughter's 529, and projections show that it should be worth around $350,000 by the time she is 18, so we should have minimal out-of-pocket expenses for her college education.

We are aiming for a FAT FIRE-style retirement. Based on several retirement models and calculators, net worth should exceed $6 million by retirement, which should comfortably support annual spending of approximately $200,000. Our vision for retirement centers on slow travel: taking several international trips each year and spending anywhere from a few weeks to a month in a location to experience the culture more deeply rather than simply vacationing and visiting all the touristy spots.

One significant milestone is that I will become eligible for Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) in two years, which should meaningfully improve our cash flow and accelerate our savings goals.

We have been able to accelerate our retirement savings by maintaining a fairly modest lifestyle relative to our income. For example, we only replaced my wife's 2008 Honda a couple years ago, and I still drive a 2014 Toyota. We typically take one larger trip each year (e.g., Hawaii or Mexico) along with several smaller domestic trips.

I'd be interested to hear where others are in their careers and retirement planning process. What does your path to retirement look like?

I plan on retiring at 55. Currently in late 30s.

Presently with 1.5 mil cash/stocks and 1.8 mil in various retirement accounts. Only debt is my home. I can’t justify paying it off as I got a low refinance rate.

My savings rate is very high and I have a 11-17% match on retirement.

I plan on full income replacement in retirement.

Edit- I have a two income household. My wife helped pay expenses in school/residency. I had multiple scholarships. Also live in a very low cost of living area.

 

[air bud]

For people not out here talking about the millions they have, everybody has different circumstances but don't be a victim of those circumstances. Enjoy what you have and what you are building. Life is short.

 

[PeaJay]

For people not out here talking about the millions they have, everybody has different circumstances but don't be a victim of those circumstances. Enjoy what you have and what you are building. Life is short.

I couldn’t agree more. Everyone’s situation is different. The market and marriage has been kind to me. Over half of my household accumulation is from my wife. Marrying well has done more for me than podiatry.

 

[heybrother]

I couldn’t agree more. Everyone’s situation is different. The market and marriage has been kind to me. Over half of my household accumulation is from my wife. Marrying well has done more for me than podiatry.

This. How much detail do I share about a situation that isn't really representative of my podiatry efforts and is much more representative of what my wife brought to the table. I had no cost of living in podiatry school - my wife worked. And she worked during residency. And we ROTHed a bunch of her salary when I finally got a raise in residency. I'm trying to avoid being one of my favorite expressions in the world - "He was born on 3rd base but thinks he hit a triple".

I do somewhat feel that there's a bit of over-representation of hospital people in the big numbers above. My 401k was at $233K the last time I looked at it. I maxed it every year, but there was no 403 or 457 or whatever extras the hospital people had to double down in. To be fair though - I just brokeraged that many. I had a smaller match than many people are getting here, but I really think one of the biggest problems was just underperforming the market based on bad funds being available.

No regrets about my wife being a SAHM albeit she's brought substantial financial benefits in other ways. I wanted my children to have what I had growing up.

 

[deleted1235332]

all the million dollar mentions in this thread will be on the DMU website now good job everyone

 

[Feli]

For people not out here talking about the millions they have, everybody has different circumstances but don't be a victim of those circumstances. Enjoy what you have and what you are building. Life is short.

Can say that again...

I personally don't understand the "full income replacement" concept. I probably don't understand it.
Does that mean 100% current income... ie, if you make $300k now, you want $300k/yr in retire?
That seems nuts (to me); you won't have much taxes in retire, no retire contributions, no disability/life insure, little/no kid expenses anymore.

Percentage of Current Income Needed in Retirement | White Coat Investor

How Much Money Do Doctors Retire With? | White Coat Investor (see "The Good News of Retirement" bullets)

...I don't know about most of you guys, but my average 60 or 65 or 70 year old patient is NOT in good health and mobility. Neither are most of my neighbors and family and friends that age. Sure, a few are free of creaks and limp and obesity and blood thinners at Medicare age... but I'm not counting on me (and partner) being the exception to the rule. We will probably have anywhere from 15-35% of our current annual income during retirement (depends on market conditions before and shortly after retire), but having mobility is the main goal.
Super strong recomendation to that Die with Zero book (Perkins); tons of people plan for a retirement that never happens; he calls it "working for free" for years/decades late career. Also emphasizes that some travel and activities just can't be done later on. He also recommends giving money to kids, charity, etc while alive so you can see it at work, so it gets where you want it, so there's some accountability for them not to squander it, etc... great and fast read.

 

[deleted1218629]

The most important investment you can make is physical fitness and emotional intelligence (or just luck) in podiatry school so you can pair up with one of the med students...

Mid 30s 7 years out. High income partner in HCOL area. Low paying hospital job. Combined income is over 7 figures and net worth is 3.5-4.5 million with rapid growth.

Max out 401k/whatever partners program is, lump summed 529s. Backdoor roth. Brokerage account with bad decisions but good vibes.

I should be making a lot more for the work i am doing. We are not valued, and medicine in general is under valued. One bad experience and I am walking into the sunset. For the record, had i not met my partner my circumstances would be far less stable. All my device reps make more than me. So stay in shape and go on lots of dates.

 

[Toenail]

The most important investment you can make is physical fitness and emotional intelligence (or just luck) in podiatry school so you can pair up with one of the med students...

Mid 30s 7 years out. High income partner in HCOL area. Low paying hospital job. Combined income is over 7 figures and net worth is 3.5-4.5 million with rapid growth.

Max out 401k/whatever partners program is, lump summed 529s. Backdoor roth. Brokerage account with bad decisions but good vibes.

I should be making a lot more for the work i am doing. We are not valued, and medicine in general is under valued. One bad experience and I am walking into the sunset. For the record, had i not met my partner my circumstances would be far less stable. All my device reps make more than me. So stay in shape and go on lots of dates.

You retiring in a couple years?

 

[Feli]

You retiring in a couple years?

Unless they are buying planes, boats, racehorses.. I would say/hope yeah.
But you never know, tons of guys on WCI forum who could've easily retired 5,10,20+ years ago.

all the million dollar mentions in this thread will be on the DMU website now good job everyone

Indeeed... anything good - real or made up - is now a podiatry marketing graphic on IG and websites.
That's why I made sure to say 80% of our stocks is my partner, not mine.
Like @Calogero , I would be doing ok at best without partner... forget a SAHM, those cost millions and would have me working until 70? 🙃

 

[Dermato Fight Club]

Can say that again...

I personally don't understand the "full income replacement" concept. I probably don't understand it.
Does that mean 100% current income... ie, if you make $300k now, you want $300k/yr in retire?
That seems nuts (to me); you won't have much taxes in retire, no retire contributions, no disability/life insure, little/no kid expenses anymore.

Percentage of Current Income Needed in Retirement | White Coat Investor

How Much Money Do Doctors Retire With? | White Coat Investor (see "The Good News of Retirement" bullets)

...I don't know about most of you guys, but my average 60 or 65 or 70 year old patient is NOT in good health and mobility. Neither are most of my neighbors and family and friends that age. Sure, a few are free of creaks and limp and obesity and blood thinners at Medicare age... but I'm not counting on me (and partner) being the exception to the rule. We will probably have anywhere from 15-35% of our current annual income during retirement (depends on market conditions before and shortly after retire), but having mobility is the main goal.
Super strong recomendation to that Die with Zero book (Perkins); tons of people plan for a retirement that never happens; he calls it "working for free" for years/decades late career. Also emphasizes that some travel and activities just can't be done later on. He also recommends giving money to kids, charity, etc while alive so you can see it at work, so it gets where you want it, so there's some accountability for them not to squander it, etc... great and fast read.

Yeah. If you don’t have kids everything is different. You, without kids, have been sticking to a set budget that you can realistically understand/stick to for decades.

With kids it’s vastly different and I don’t know what the future entails. Ideally I wouldn’t retire until my kids are self sufficient but I don’t know if I can make it that far.

There are a lot of unknown variables in the future. If I’m over prepared, great.

 

[Hybrocure]

For people not out here talking about the millions they have, everybody has different circumstances but don't be a victim of those circumstances. Enjoy what you have and what you are building. Life is short.

yeah I was gonna say there’s probably a silent majority out here right now reading this. Basically most non hospital employed podiatry associates who make up the largest part of our workforce but I digress

 

[dtrack22]

Go for forgiveness. "Live like a resident" is idiocy when you're not guaranteed to live past 50. Why people punish themselves through youth and health to hoard wealth for when they're old & decrepit and can't enjoy it is beyond me.

While I don’t always agree with Boba, I certainly tend to fall more into this camp. I think the sweet spot is somewhere between Boba’s “I’ll live off of debt until I die and then what are they gonna do about it?” mentality and that of the FIRE people on here.

I don’t mind working in some form until *gasp* 65, if need be, though I can continue my current lifestyle and still be done by 60. I cap my clinic at 25 and any overbooking must be approved by me. I generally work 4 days a week. Today I threw some BP to my Dad before he left for an old man slowpitch softball tournament. My wife and I went to a concert at a park in the middle of the day. I will randomly take a couple of midweek days off work for my wife and I to go see a concert in another part of the country. We have a boat. We have a cabin that we don’t rent out. I coach some of my kids sports. I ski patrol. But I make less money because of it and I will undoubtedly have to work longer because I am very much enjoying my life with my family and friends. I guess some people have so much disposable income they can do both. But the average podiatrist is not retiring by 50 without making some significant lifestyle sacrifices in their 30’s and 40’s. No thanks.

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

I've struggled with the lifestyle part. I am a grinder. My dad grinded. My grandparents grinded. My family has generational wealth because of it. It's a legacy I want to carry on for my children. Each generation of my family has significantly been better than before because each generation has so many more opportunities due to disposable income available.

I'd like to say I will slow down but I will only slow down if they force another partner on me (I have two already) or I physically can not do the volume I am doing (this year I'm on pace for 13500-14000 RVUs).

The best thing I did was lose 50 lbs and now I am putting on some rip due to peptides. I'm taking meds to increase my testosterone as well. Personal wellness will be the next big healthcare boom. Hims/hers will be a mega company in the future. Everyone wants complete control of their health and get access to medications if their labs permit it rather than waiting on the approval of a family med doc.

Personal wellness is key for longevity in this racket.

My distributor makes stupid money off my sweat. I do leverage them to get me into industry. We all should do the same. Industry takes advantage of so many docs. We bring so much money to others (hospitals, hardware companies, reps/distributors).

 

[Feli]

.... Everyone wants complete control of their health ...

This is the bottom line. ^^^
That's my main reason for starting to plan for retire and invest aggressively: preserve health and energy and mobility.
I had a few minor health issues of my own in 40s... but mainly becoming increasingly conscious of the illnesses and injuries that patients/family/neighbors my age and a bit older run into (both random bad luck and lifestyle-related ailments... either derails their mobility or plans or even their whole life badly).

I just can't do the 3-4 weights workouts and 3-4 sessions of cardio getting my heart rate up each week while working. It's always a choice between that and relaxing, having fun, making more money. Big credit to anyone who works 40-60+ hours per week and also gets fitness done well. Sometimes I go to the gym on weeknights after work, pop my car in park. But I'm often just wiped and kinda sick of being around people all day/week... so I leave and just go home.

My own internal med (PCP) doc asks me if I'm exercising, and I always say "maybe 1-2 weights workouts, 1 yoga session weekend, and 0-1 true cardio weekly." He shakes his head (he's a runner) and says "you need to get your heart rate way up for at least 20-30 minutes at least three times a week." He's right. The getting into peak shape is simply not easier as we get older. The "TRT" and various supps and meds aren't going to do the lifting/running work for us (some of that stuff can help, but not the foundation... or pro wrestlers and Kim K would live forever 🙂 ).

That's not to mention sleep: none of us sleep great with alarm clock jolting us up 5+ days per week, using caffeine or other stuff, worrying about call pager or office issues. We use various hacks to get to sleep sometimes too (we do melatonin, sometimes benadryl or nyquil). We just don't get that good quality 7-8hrs the body needs to repair very often ("sleep hygiene" if you ask the psych/therapy folks). I get that many hours laying in the bed a few nights per week, but it's usually not all restful... the job anxiety hangs around at least a bit for anyone with a high achieving job. In podiatry, it doesn't matter if it's a big surgery, a complication, office budget, office employee issue, hospital politics issue, stress of changing jobs, admins, boards, something personal/family, whatever... all same effect on sleep/anxiety.

...I feel like [to me] it's 1000% worth having a less fancy "toys" and travels to eliminate the alarm clock, get full control of one's time at a younger age. I want to play the game on easy mode. I prioritize that health - and freedom - over money. My partner is more about being able to do travel and hobby in retirement that she can't do much of now, but I will mainly be mad at myself if I don't use the time effectively and get into peak shape and optimal sleep/repair soon after we achieve retirement. I feel like I'm treading water - at best - with my fitness the last decade or so while working (BMI is normal by eating pretty good, but strength and especially cardio are not great... and I don't play most of the local softball/bball/etc leagues I'd like to as I usually work when they're happening).

 

[deleted1218629]

This is the bottom line. ^^^
That's my main reason for starting to plan for retire and invest aggressively: preserve health and energy and mobility.
I had a few minor health issues of my own in 40s... but mainly becoming increasingly conscious of the illnesses and injuries that patients/family/neighbors my age and a bit older run into (both random bad luck and lifestyle-related ailments... either derails their mobility or plans or even their whole life badly).

I just can't do the 3-4 weights workouts and 3-4 sessions of cardio getting my heart rate up each week while working. It's always a choice between that and relaxing, having fun, making more money. Big credit to anyone who works 40-60+ hours per week and also gets fitness done well. Sometimes I go to the gym on weeknights after work, pop my car in park. But I'm often just wiped and kinda sick of being around people all day/week... so I leave and just go home.

My own internal med (PCP) doc asks me if I'm exercising, and I always say "maybe 1-2 weights workouts, 1 yoga session weekend, and 0-1 true cardio weekly." He shakes his head (he's a runner) and says "you need to get your heart rate way up for at least 20-30 minutes at least three times a week." He's right. The getting into peak shape is simply not easier as we get older. The "TRT" and various supps and meds aren't going to do the lifting/running work for us (some of that stuff can help, but not the foundation... or pro wrestlers and Kim K would live forever 🙂 ).

That's not to mention sleep: none of us sleep great with alarm clock jolting us up 5+ days per week, using caffeine or other stuff, worrying about call pager or office issues. We use various hacks to get to sleep sometimes too (we do melatonin, sometimes benadryl or nyquil). We just don't get that good quality 7-8hrs the body needs to repair very often ("sleep hygiene" if you ask the psych/therapy folks). I get that many hours laying in the bed a few nights per week, but it's usually not all restful... the job anxiety hangs around at least a bit for anyone with a high achieving job. In podiatry, it doesn't matter if it's a big surgery, a complication, office budget, office employee issue, hospital politics issue, stress of changing jobs, admins, boards, something personal/family, whatever... all same effect on sleep/anxiety.

...I feel like [to me] it's 1000% worth having a less fancy "toys" and travels to eliminate the alarm clock, get full control of one's time at a younger age. I want to play the game on easy mode. I prioritize that health - and freedom - over money. My partner is more about being able to do travel and hobby in retirement that she can't do much of now, but I will mainly be mad at myself if I don't use the time effectively and get into peak shape and optimal sleep/repair soon after we achieve retirement. I feel like I'm treading water - at best - with my fitness the last decade or so while working (BMI is normal by eating pretty good, but strength and especially cardio are not great... and I don't play most of the local softball/bball/etc leagues I'd like to as I usually work when they're happening).

Get a treadmill and try to go for 10 minutes each morning, then work up to 20 minutes. The hardest part for me is how boring it is, but my whole day is better if I exercise consistently in the morning, even light exercise. 20 minutes a day during the week and 30-40 minutes on a weekend would make a big difference. Get an aura ring and check your labs and watch everything change for the better.

I am hoping to retire by 50. I have tried to find a way to go part time but that is easier said than done in podiatry unless you just want to cut nails all day. If you are practicing full podiatry, going part time just is not worth the income/risk ratio.

 

[heybrother]

I don't know how long I can last, but I just bought a trampoline and I'm hitting 30-60 minutes of cardio every day now.

 

[Feli]

I don't know how long I can last, but I just bought a trampoline and I'm hitting 30-60 minutes of cardio every day now.

Good stuff. This is something I've been looking at (got the idea from the Tony Robbins docu I Am Not Your Guru) where he used that ~3 foot trampoline before taking the stage. Which model worked?

When retired, I can do a mix of jogging, biking, BBall, jump rope, whatever. It shouldn't be a problem. But for now, the more quick options the better... just have jogging or jump rope outside and recumbent bike inside. It'd be good to get another indoor option.

 

[heybrother]

Good stuff. This is something I've been looking at (got the idea from the Tony Robbins docu I Am Not Your Guru) where he used that ~3 foot trampoline before taking the stage. Which model worked?

When retired, I can do a mix of jogging, biking, BBall, jump rope, whatever. It shouldn't be a problem. But for now, the more quick options the better... just have jogging or jump rope outside and recumbent bike inside. It'd be good to get another indoor option.

I've got 2. My new one is an outdoor 12 foot circle by Acon. I can't jump on it without my kids joining me. Had a little bit of back pain when I started - that I've since resolved. Probably overdid it going nuts the first week. My watch kept telling me I was going on runs within about 3 minutes of jumping. My indoor one is a Jumpsport rebounder - looks like a 39 inch 220. Bough it forever ago. Has held up well. I had a stretch where if I walked by the reboulder I had a rule that I "had" to jump on it. ie. pound out a set until my heart was beating. Would do like 20-40 jumps with my knees up. Had amazing blood pressure during that stretch. Never had any pain or injury from it. Bought a bar for the kids to hold. My wife gets annoyed if I leave it out.

 

[Carbon13]

Any PP guys gotten into office real estate?
I'm 9 years out & currently building a multi office commercial building. Hoping to offset rent with tenants and gain some new tax advantages.
My wife has a good corporate job with all the retirement and stock perks. I've got minimal. Just relying on insurance reimbursement and my yearly income has dropped the past couple years despite organic growth.

 

[deleted1235332]

Any PP guys gotten into office real estate?
I'm 9 years out & currently building a multi office commercial building. Hoping to offset rent with tenants and gain some new tax advantages.
My wife has a good corporate job with all the retirement and stock perks. I've got minimal. Just relying on insurance reimbursement and my yearly income has dropped the past couple years despite organic growth.

Commercial real estate seems really nice… make the tenant’s pay for CAM charges and insurance….