Retirement Discussion

[Feeter]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hospital employed. 9 years out now I think

One income, married, 3 kids in medium COL area.
Income ranges between 380 to 425 depending on the year
Save about 100 to 125k each year into various accounts from 401a, 403b, 529s.
House is paid off. Cars are paid off

Total retirement investment in mutual funds 830k
Kids 529 total investment 90k
House equity 950k

Current annual cost of living is around 180k.

If everything goes to plan I plan on being part time as non surgical podiatrist (3.5 days a week would be most ideal) at 45 while wife goes back to part time work and completely retire at 55.

Full transparency I had help from parents who helped pay off loans early but I only had 145k total and helped with down payment of my first house.

So all in all podiatry has been pretty good to me.

Below is a link to retirement calculator that i think is pretty comprehensive. Allows you to put in part time work income, SSI, inflation adjusted, returns, lump sum inheritance etc.

Best Retirement Calculator

Best retirement calculator because it has all the standard features plus you can model 3 post-retirement income streams and 3 different one-time benefit...

www.financialmentor.com

 

[Feli]

Yeah, the calcs are interesting to me.

I use this one below once in awhile... super simple, most of the guys on WCI seem to use it.
It just puts together all possible 25, 30, 35yr, etc periods of market data possible for the numbers you plug... and tells you your rate of failure.
It makes the most sense to me... it can end anywhere from great to dicey. It's nice to see all things that could happen (historically 100+ years).

We made some manual spreadsheets and plugged numbers in also. A ton depends on how the early market years go - right after you retire.
We have a few friends who retired around 2017 who now have about 2.5x-3x what they retired with (even with much spending so far).
We know others (my parents) who retired ~2005 and had to lower their travel/spending BIGTIME to avoid going back to work.... now fine.
Basically, the only SORR that acutally matters is the one that actually happens when you retire. It could crash, could boom. But it's helpful to see all of them...

FIRECalc: A different kind of retirement calculator

www.firecalc.com

 

[soleproprietor]

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread. I am someone who thinks and worries about money/retirement a lot. I am just starting residency and have had a sinking feeling about podiatry for a long time. I’ve explored many other career options and cannot seem to think about anything else that would be worth switching to this late into my career journey with my student loan burden. I worry about my ability to afford housing and pay off loans once finished with residency let alone retire, i don’t see myself ever being able to. I am set on a certain geographic area as I’ve realized proximity to family and friends means more to me than living states away for a higher salary. The area im in and hope to live is very saturated, as are most decent cities im realizing. I don’t want to continue living with this dread and depression about my financial future as i continue in residency. So yes, i am turning to internet strangers for advice on what to do. Do I just accept that I will need to open my own practice upon finishing? I’ve started previous businesses (much smaller scale) and it seems possible to me. Or do i truly consider a career transition and if so, is there any ideas that would be feasible given my high student debt from podiatry school. I’m open to blue collar, going back to school, really anything. I’ve worked in a variety of different spaces and can see myself being happy in many of them.


Or do I just go all in on penny stocks and hope for some good fortune?

 

[deleted1235332]

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread. I am someone who thinks and worries about money/retirement a lot. I am just starting residency and have had a sinking feeling about podiatry for a long time. I’ve explored many other career options and cannot seem to think about anything else that would be worth switching to this late into my career journey with my student loan burden. I worry about my ability to afford housing and pay off loans once finished with residency let alone retire, i don’t see myself ever being able to. I am set on a certain geographic area as I’ve realized proximity to family and friends means more to me than living states away for a higher salary. The area im in and hope to live is very saturated, as are most decent cities im realizing. I don’t want to continue living with this dread and depression about my financial future as i continue in residency. So yes, i am turning to internet strangers for advice on what to do. Do I just accept that I will need to open my own practice upon finishing? I’ve started previous businesses (much smaller scale) and it seems possible to me. Or do i truly consider a career transition and if so, is there any ideas that would be feasible given my high student debt from podiatry school. I’m open to blue collar, going back to school, really anything. I’ve worked in a variety of different spaces and can see myself being happy in many of them.


Or do I just go all in on penny stocks and hope for some good fortune?

If you like podiatry stick with it. If you don’t then leave. That doesn’t matter if you’re a first year student, first year resident, or an experienced attending

I think if you’re a good doctor and have good business skills you’ll be just fine as far as money goes. Just read this thread. Some have millions in retirement and can retire in their 40’s technically.

That’s not true for 95%+ or more Americans.

 

[Dr.PatchAdams]

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread. I am someone who thinks and worries about money/retirement a lot. I am just starting residency and have had a sinking feeling about podiatry for a long time. I’ve explored many other career options and cannot seem to think about anything else that would be worth switching to this late into my career journey with my student loan burden. I worry about my ability to afford housing and pay off loans once finished with residency let alone retire, i don’t see myself ever being able to. I am set on a certain geographic area as I’ve realized proximity to family and friends means more to me than living states away for a higher salary. The area im in and hope to live is very saturated, as are most decent cities im realizing. I don’t want to continue living with this dread and depression about my financial future as i continue in residency. So yes, i am turning to internet strangers for advice on what to do. Do I just accept that I will need to open my own practice upon finishing? I’ve started previous businesses (much smaller scale) and it seems possible to me. Or do i truly consider a career transition and if so, is there any ideas that would be feasible given my high student debt from podiatry school. I’m open to blue collar, going back to school, really anything. I’ve worked in a variety of different spaces and can see myself being happy in many of them.


Or do I just go all in on penny stocks and hope for some good fortune?

Take your apprehension of financial ruin and channel it towards an ambition, drive, and grittiness to doing well in your training and making strong connections.

Granted, this advice will be easier to follow if you enjoy the job. As CAMboot pointed out, if you do not enjoy the work, you may be best served leaving all together.

 

[Weirdy]

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread. I am someone who thinks and worries about money/retirement a lot. I am just starting residency and have had a sinking feeling about podiatry for a long time. I’ve explored many other career options and cannot seem to think about anything else that would be worth switching to this late into my career journey with my student loan burden. I worry about my ability to afford housing and pay off loans once finished with residency let alone retire, i don’t see myself ever being able to. I am set on a certain geographic area as I’ve realized proximity to family and friends means more to me than living states away for a higher salary. The area im in and hope to live is very saturated, as are most decent cities im realizing. I don’t want to continue living with this dread and depression about my financial future as i continue in residency. So yes, i am turning to internet strangers for advice on what to do. Do I just accept that I will need to open my own practice upon finishing? I’ve started previous businesses (much smaller scale) and it seems possible to me. Or do i truly consider a career transition and if so, is there any ideas that would be feasible given my high student debt from podiatry school. I’m open to blue collar, going back to school, really anything. I’ve worked in a variety of different spaces and can see myself being happy in many of them.


Or do I just go all in on penny stocks and hope for some good fortune?

Easy to get sucked in the doom and gloom
I did the same throughout the entirety of residency, liked what I did just didn't like the financial pay off

I still live very well now despite making much less than the posters on here and my colleagues (opportunity to own).
That might change when I need to switch loan repayment plans.

This profession can make you money and increase your quality of life.

But the time, debt burden, and trash people (as is with any profession) seems a lot more pronounced than other health professions like MD/DO/CRNA/DDS what have you.

 

[soleproprietor]

Easy to get sucked in the doom and gloom
I did the same throughout the entirety of residency, liked what I did just didn't like the financial pay off

I still live very well now despite make much less than the normal posters on here.
That might change when I need to switch loan repayment plans.

This profession can make you money and increase your quality of life.

But the time, debt burden, and trash people (as is with any profession) seems a lot more pronounced than other health professions like MD/DO/CRNA/DDS what have you.

I know money is a sensitive subject to discuss specifics, but I know I can live comfortably, payoff loans, and own a home with a 200,000 annual salary.
Things will become much easier once I get 20k a month.

Is this outlandish? Or a realistic goal. Seems what I read online that 150-180k is more realistic

 

[Stormblest]

150-180k is usually starting for PP associate positions. I think most make 200k+ eventually. As evidenced by posters on here you can do quite well if you find a good setup.

 

[dtrack22]

I know money is a sensitive subject to discuss specifics, but I know I can live comfortably, payoff loans, and own a home with a 200,000 annual salary.
Things will become much easier once I get 20k a month.

Is this outlandish? Or a realistic goal. Seems what I read online that 150-180k is more realistic

It seems like it’s pretty easy to come out now and get $150-180k. I also think there will be more employed (hospital/large MSG) positions every year, so more opportunities to come right out of residency and make $250-350k. Still unlikely, but better odds than when I was coming out. Seems like many of the practices that would have offered $100k base 10 years ago, are now owned by PE. Unfortunately that means the ceiling is lower in all of those jobs but the floor is higher than it has been.

Financial success in Podiatry has been for quite some time, and still is, heavily dependent on a) your willingness to live (almost) anywhere in the country, and/or b) your willingness to take additional financial risk and run/start a business. If both of those are a solid “no thanks,” then…

 

[Forcewielder]

Late to this thread, but I really appreciate everyone posting. Lots of great info and advice. I've added a couple of books Feli mentioned to my queue so thank you for the recommendations.

As for me, I'm mid 30s and 6yrs out. COVID ruined my 1st 2yrs so I've only been making doctor money for 4yrs. My wife has been a SAHM since our son was born in residency and we now have 3 kids. I'm in hospital clinics and am self-employed so I don't have the fancy retirement options. I'm more the Dave Ramsey style of investing in that I'm aggressive with paying down debt and paying off the house rather than maximizing net worth. Currently have 330k in IRAs and 600k in equity in my home. Down to 100k in student loans from 250k. Paid off cars, boat, and golf cart.

I've got 10yrs left on my mortgage. I max out my spousal and personal backdoor Roth and throw another ~15-20k/yr in traditional. My goal is to finish my mortgage and then guage things from there. I really prefer to enjoy some of my money now, rather than try to establish an 8 digit net worth. We came from blue collar families so we are more modest in what we desire in retirement. I could see a world where I retire at 50. Hopefully with 3 kids, at least 1 will give some grandkids around that time and we can give the help we wish we had now.

I am curious about your budgets. Multiple posts mentioned maxing multiple retirement accounts and so I really would like to hear some breakdowns on monthly budgets.

My budget: 40k/month
9000 taxes
10,000 mortgage
3000 retirement
1500 property taxes
1000 health insurance
2000 student loans
600 utilities
300 cell phone and internet
600 gas
300 HOA and dock fees
700 life, home, auto, disability insurance
1000 sinking fund for CME and licensing
1000 malpractice
400 to 529s

I should be doing more to charity, but for now I'm going to leave it off because it's not worth mentioning. I want to bump up the investing, but there's no margin while I'm paying off the house on a 15yr fixed. I gross 500k, and after the above I have about 9000/month in discretionary spending. I use some of it for sinking funds for cars and vacations. That typically leaves around 7k that we live off for food, clothes, fun, etc.

 

[Weirdy]

I use some of it for sinking funds for cars and vacations. That typically leaves around 7k that we live off for food, clothes, fun, etc.

.....what kind of cars we talking?

 

[Feli]

One thing I've noticed is that with all these market years 20-25% growth, seems everyone is thinking [early] retirement in the past few years.

I have serously had everyone from friends to UPS drivers to neighbor to many hospital employees tell me how many years they have left (I think they just look at 401k and assume it does this forever?).

As the great @air bud likes to say, write your plans in pencil.... kids get exponentially more expensive, jobs change, markets are wonky. These recent returns are NOT normal. I love it, but it does not last forever. Basically, ymmv

...as for budget monthly, mine is something like this:
$4k taxes,
7k student loans,
$5k cash stock acct (backdoor Roth each Jan),
$3k cash savings (we are both hitting this hard... liquidity of cash + brokerage acct for expenses, etc before 65yrs MCR + 59.5yrs ret accts age),
$1k football cards and camping equip and motorcycle parts and various toys,
$1-2k, bills/misc?
(all professional expenses through biz funds pre-tax)
(cars/truck/moto are paid off, pretty minimal expenses, no payments... we have a paid off house, partner bought it).

I went a decade or so barely touching student loans, though... very bad idea. I was paying $1k or $2 or $0k/month for a long time (part of it was bad jobs, part of it was ignoring the debt)... and you simply drown in interest, barely hit principal.

 

[Dermato Fight Club]

One thing I've noticed is that with all these market years 20-25% growth, seems everyone is thinking [early] retirement in the past few years.

I

Makes me wonder how there are multiple guys in my area practicing past 68. If they had some sort of retirement plan over the past 10-15 years (when they were like 55 already) they should be way ahead of what that plan was.

I can’t imagine they are still practicing for the love of the keratin.

 

[Feli]

Makes me wonder how there are multiple guys in my area practicing past 68. If they had some sort of retirement plan over the past 10-15 years (when they were like 55 already) they should be way ahead of what that plan was.

I can’t imagine they are still practicing for the love of the keratin.

Some people have a fear of running out of money and are just going to work until their body cannot do it anymore (Die with Zero book is amazing... and sad).

Other people just spend a ton ... travel, divorces, kids, dining/ent, gambling losses, bad speculative investments, any number of things. Countless docs have declared bankruptcy. I'm consistently amazed how many people finance (at interest) stuff like home remodel, car/truck, vacations, boat, kid college, etc that I would never dream of taking out a loan for. Some of them end up paying more than 2x purchase price if they pay it off slow and/or high interest. Most do that paying roughly double purchase price on home they live in, but a whole whole lot do it with dumb stuff too. Who wants to save up when you can have it now? 🙂

 

[Forcewielder]

.....what kind of cars we talking?

Nothing crazy. My wife and I both drive Mazdas that are 2021 and 2023 respectively. They're paid off, but I drive 40k miles/yr so I keep a sinking fund for maintenance and to save for the next one. Even if I drive my car to 200k miles I would need a new 1 every 5yrs which is a monthly cost of 600 in itself.