RFK's new vaccine panel...recommends.....RSV vaccine for kids?!

[AlmostAnMD]

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In surprise move, RFK Jr.'s vaccine committee votes to recommend RSV shot for infants

The eight new ACIP members met for the first time June 25 after Kennedy fired all 17 original members of the committee June 9.

www.yahoo.com

Relevant to EM since you will all see RSV


I'm honestly floored

For those of you not following politics, RFK fired the entire HHS vaccine panel which led most to assume no vaccine would ever be recommended again, since vaccine skeptics occupy it.

Then they turned right around and immediately recommend all infants get the RSV shot

Is it a fluke? Or is RFK slowly pulling his head out of his ass on vaccines? His stance on food safety most docs I talk to find admirable, just need him to come around to vaccines, and this is a good sign....

 

[Jabbed]

In surprise move, RFK Jr.'s vaccine committee votes to recommend RSV shot for infants

The eight new ACIP members met for the first time June 25 after Kennedy fired all 17 original members of the committee June 9.

www.yahoo.com

Relevant to EM since you will all see RSV


I'm honestly floored

For those of you not following politics, RFK fired the entire HHS vaccine panel which led most to assume no vaccine would ever be recommended again, since vaccine skeptics occupy it.

Then they turned right around and immediately recommend all infants get the RSV shot

Is it a fluke? Or is RFK slowly pulling his head out of his ass on vaccines? His stance on food safety most docs I talk to find admirable, just need him to come around to vaccines, and this is a good sign....

They also recommended annual flu vaccine. Bunch of quacks. 😏

 

[thegenius]

In surprise move, RFK Jr.'s vaccine committee votes to recommend RSV shot for infants

The eight new ACIP members met for the first time June 25 after Kennedy fired all 17 original members of the committee June 9.

www.yahoo.com

Relevant to EM since you will all see RSV


I'm honestly floored

For those of you not following politics, RFK fired the entire HHS vaccine panel which led most to assume no vaccine would ever be recommended again, since vaccine skeptics occupy it.

Then they turned right around and immediately recommend all infants get the RSV shot

Is it a fluke? Or is RFK slowly pulling his head out of his ass on vaccines? His stance on food safety most docs I talk to find admirable, just need him to come around to vaccines, and this is a good sign....

No no no...He is a total skeptic but he can't run HHS without advisory groups. I was surprised by this. We are still going to get total lies coming out of their administration though.

 

[Dragonite7]

An advisory panel recently appointed by Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. voted on Thursday to walk back longstanding recommendations for flu vaccines containing an ingredient that the anti-vaccine movement has falsely linked to autism.

Presentations at the meetings are generally made by C.D.C. staff members. But among the speakers on Thursday was Lyn Redwood, a former leader of Children’s Health Defense, the anti-vaccine group founded by Mr. Kennedy.

Ms. Redwood, who has been hired as a special employee at the Health and Human Services Department, alleged in the meeting that thimerosal was toxic and dangerous to children.

In another unusual move, Martin Kulldorff, the panel’s chair, proposed that the members vote to stop allowing the use of a vaccine for measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox for children under 4. That combination vaccine has been available since 2005. ... The panelists are expected to vote on the vaccine’s use at a future meeting.

The U.S. health secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who has moved to undermine public immunization programs in the United States, took his efforts global on Wednesday, accusing the leading international vaccine organization of having “ignored the science” in immunizing children around the world. Mr. Kennedy accused Gavi’s leaders of being selective in their use of science to support vaccine choices, and said that the United States would not deliver on a $1.2 billion pledge made by the Biden administration until the organization changed its processes.

Nah, RFK's agenda is well underway. Just piece by piece.

 

[xaelia]

It's not exactly a vaccine in the traditional sense, though it functions/fits the definition of a vaccine –

It's a monoclonal antibody, so I suspect it somewhat bypasses their idea of it "programming" your immune system etc.

Half-life is about 70 days; protects for about one RSV season (long enough to get infants through the highest-risk period, anyway).

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Nah, RFK's agenda is well underway. Just piece by piece.

Ok, so you guys here aren't as familiar with childhood vaccines as those of us in primary care, so I'll address this.

Almost all of us use single dose flu shots which do not contain any preservatives so this should have minimal effect.

Almost no one uses the MMRV for the first dose (age 1). Almost everyone uses it for the second dose (age 4). Adverse events are higher at age 1 compared to MMR and varicella separately at that age. It's weird, but there it is. In 15 years I've never worked anywhere that did the combination vaccine for dose 1. So stopping it for kids under 4 shouldn't have much of an effect either.

Withholding that money sucks and at first glance is inexcusable.

 

[ERMudPhud]

It's not exactly a vaccine in the traditional sense, though it functions/fits the definition of a vaccine –

It's a monoclonal antibody, so I suspect it somewhat bypasses their idea of it "programming" your immune system etc.

Half-life is about 70 days; protects for about one RSV season (long enough to get infants through the highest-risk period, anyway).

Exactly this. It's not a vaccine. It's passive immunization with a monoclonal. Somehow that's OK with the anti-vaccine crowd. Most of them couldn't tell you what a monoclonal is, how its made, or what other chemicals are in the vial but it doesn't matter. Forget about explaining the difference between passive and active immunization. They just know this is somehow different and therefore OK. Remember during the slightly later days of the pandemic when most people were vaccinated and the only ones who weren't were still coming to the ED to get infused with various monoclonals when they would get COVID? As part of the consent I used to tell everyone. "This is not FDA approved. Its still experimental. We have no idea what side effects it might have. It was developed at least in part using cell lines derived many years ago from aborted fetuses." Despite the fact that they used all those same arguments to turn down the vaccine almost none of them turned down the monoclonals when they were sick.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Exactly this. It's not a vaccine. It's passive immunization with a monoclonal. Somehow that's OK with the anti-vaccine crowd. Most of them couldn't tell you what a monoclonal is, how its made, or what other chemicals are in the vial but it doesn't matter. Forget about explaining the difference between passive and active immunization. They just know this is somehow different and therefore OK. Remember during the slightly later days of the pandemic when most people were vaccinated and the only ones who weren't were still coming to the ED to get infused with various monoclonals when they would get COVID? As part of the consent I used to tell everyone. "This is not FDA approved. Its still experimental. We have no idea what side effects it might have. It was developed at least in part using cell lines derived many years ago from aborted fetuses." Despite the fact that they used all those same arguments to turn down the vaccine almost none of them turned down the monoclonals when they were sick.

I still remember a few dying people using their last words to try to yell at me about how covid wasn't real. Sounds good, I'll go ahead and get you admitted, here comes the (whatever form of high flow or NIPPV we were using at the time), bye.

 

[DocEspana]

Ok, so you guys here aren't as familiar with childhood vaccines as those of us in primary care, so I'll address this.

Almost all of us use single dose flu shots which do not contain any preservatives so this should have minimal effect.

Almost no one uses the MMRV for the first dose (age 1). Almost everyone uses it for the second dose (age 4). Adverse events are higher at age 1 compared to MMR and varicella separately at that age. It's weird, but there it is. In 15 years I've never worked anywhere that did the combination vaccine for dose 1. So stopping it for kids under 4 shouldn't have much of an effect either.

Withholding that money sucks and at first glance is inexcusable.

a relatively prominent pediatric allergist (if youve been on the doctor social medias enough youve probably run past him) points out that while flu vaccines stabilized with mercury containing compounds are quite rare in the US (and no non-flu vaccines use it at all any longer) they do get used in two situations. 1) some utility within the US for kids allergic to the standard flu vaccine as there is generally no cross-reactivity. this is the main use of it in the US and 2) it is manufactured a ton in the US still because we export those vaccines to tropical climates across the world where the standard vaccine is just too sensitive to temperature changes to reliably be shipped to rural/underdeveloped areas.

He says as an allergist he cares about #1, but on a broader level the actions taken will likely stop our production of it for use internationally which could, once again, lead to deaths in the 3rd world because of 1st world problems that we only think effect us but are largely not even real in the US.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

a relatively prominent pediatric allergist (if youve been on the doctor social medias enough youve probably run past him)

And you've lost me.

So it depends on what type of allergy we're talking about but long story short we have pretty much every type of flu vaccine available in single dose vials that are preservative free with every combination of inactive ingredients so whatever you're allergic to when have a single dose option that lacks that thing.

 

[DocEspana]

And you've lost me.

So it depends on what type of allergy we're talking about but long story short we have pretty much every type of flu vaccine available in single dose vials that are preservative free with every combination of inactive ingredients so whatever you're allergic to when have a single dose option that lacks that thing.

This guy is a really popular social media influencer. A pediatric allergist and is as nerdy as he looks

On the other hand... What you don't expect is that he is JACKED

 

[sloh]

Jacked or fat arm?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

This guy is a really popular social media influencer. A pediatric allergist and is as nerdy as he looks

View attachment 405736

On the other hand... What you don't expect is that he is JACKED
View attachment 405737

That makes me trust him even less.

 

[DocEspana]

Jacked or fat arm?

It's a low res image but that looks like it has some bicep definition. But maybe he just has that brachial adiposity

 

[Apollyon]

He looks like Justin Warner, the chef.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Jacked or fat arm?

Swollen arm from 38 COVID boosters?

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Swollen arm from 38 COVID boosters?

I remember reading about a homeless guy that got over 100 covid shots because someone thought it was a good idea to pay people to get them and took a while to see repeat customers.

If anything, the story did a lot for my view of vaccine safety! No myocarditis after 100 shots in a few months? Sure, give me one lol

 

[Dragonite7]

RFK just cancelled $500m in grants and says the US will move away from mRNA vaccines. Threw out some wildly incorrect claims to justify it. Also moving to fire the preventative panel. Like I said before, he knows what he's doing and his agenda is well underway.

 

[amoxicillin_resistant]

ive never seen so much newfound discourse in the trust/lack of trust in doctors, healthcare professionals and lawmakers in health. I wonder how medicine will look in the future cuz rn we have to explain so much to build rapport and trust enough as is

man medicine is cooked

 

[EctopicFetus]

ive never seen so much newfound discourse in the trust/lack of trust in doctors, healthcare professionals and lawmakers in health. I wonder how medicine will look in the future cuz rn we have to explain so much to build rapport and trust enough as is

man medicine is cooked

IMO this started long ago and COVID did us no favors. The politicization of covid was really bad. I got vaccinated but the vilification of those who didnt created a lot of distrust. Im much more of a let people do as they wish and suffer or not suffer from the consequences of their decision.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

You can thank the public health crew from COVID. It's already very difficult to build rapport in the ED. It’s doubly difficult when the patient has their mind made up with what they think they need (i.e. want) and think you’re only there to order and not to actually be involved in determining what they actual need/give a medical opinion.

 

[Apollyon]

You can thank the public health crew from COVID. It's already very difficult to build rapport in the ED. It’s doubly difficult when the patient has their mind made up with what they think they need (i.e. want) and think you’re only there to order and not to actually be involved in determining what they actual need/give a medical opinion.

You just cleanly encapsulated "I know my body!", even though it's "You know what you feel, but, what IS, are not the same."

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

IMO this started long ago and COVID did us no favors. The politicization of covid was really bad. I got vaccinated but the vilification of those who didnt created a lot of distrust. Im much more of a let people do as they wish and suffer or not suffer from the consequences of their decision.

I was pretty uncomfortable with the rhetoric around the vaccine until Delta hit and my hospital was at 120% capacity with 92-95% (depending on the day) of those beds being filled with unvaccinated patients. We didn't have the space for the usual admissions because some dinguses wouldn't get vaccinated against COVID.

If we had been able to refuse unvaccinated patients during the worse of it, your last part would have worked but we couldn't and I am 100% convinced that a decent number of regular sick people died due to lack of resources.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

You just cleanly encapsulated "I know my body!", even though it's "You know what you feel, but, what IS, are not the same."

I actually appreciate those people who are up front in saying that because then I know what I need to do to move along with my day and I won't waste unnecessary time with them that can be spent with other patients.

 

[Apollyon]

I actually appreciate those people who are up front in saying that because then I know what I need to do to move along with my day and I won't waste unnecessary time with them that can be spent with other patients.

"I know my body" never ever worked for me, but that's probably because it was attached to drug seekers.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I was pretty uncomfortable with the rhetoric around the vaccine until Delta hit and my hospital was at 120% capacity with 92-95% (depending on the day) of those beds being filled with unvaccinated patients. We didn't have the space for the usual admissions because some dinguses wouldn't get vaccinated against COVID.

If we had been able to refuse unvaccinated patients during the worse of it, your last part would have worked but we couldn't and I am 100% convinced that a decent number of regular sick people died due to lack of resources.

Is it worse than the copder who still smokes? The HF patient who eats a ton of sodium and drinks a bunch of fluid? What about the obese person who doesn’t excercise and continues to indulge in fast food?

There was no longitudinal data on the risks of the vaccine there was plenty of misinformation about myocarditis and various fake treatments. It’s not crazy that a non medical person would say I’m good with rolling the dice. It was the fog of war.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

I was pretty uncomfortable with the rhetoric around the vaccine until Delta hit and my hospital was at 120% capacity with 92-95% (depending on the day) of those beds being filled with unvaccinated patients. We didn't have the space for the usual admissions because some dinguses wouldn't get vaccinated against COVID.

If we had been able to refuse unvaccinated patients during the worse of it, your last part would have worked but we couldn't and I am 100% convinced that a decent number of regular sick people died due to lack of resources.

Yeah the vaccine definitely made a dent in the delta variant. The OG strain (no vaccine) and delta were the two spikes i distinctly recall our mortality spiking. And with delta it became pretty easy to guess WHO got the vaccine without asking because those weren't the patients we were intubating/bipaping.

Ummm after that I dunno in my non-public health opinion I'm not sure what the risk/benefit currently is for covid vaccination. When Trump first came out and said it was "basically flu" that was obviously ignorant but flash forward to 2025 and we basically beat the virus into submission and now its a headcold like any other (right? )

I stopped after shot #3 because my myalgias with #3 were worse than than the goddam disease and a giant painful grapefruit lymph node appeared in my armpit for a week. I figured I'd be the rare guy that GETS myocarditis on #4 due to linearly accelerating response to these shots so I was out after that.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Is it worse than the copder who still smokes? The HF patient who eats a ton of sodium and drinks a bunch of fluid? What about the obese person who doesn’t excercise and continues to indulge in fast food?

There was no longitudinal data on the risks of the vaccine there was plenty of misinformation about myocarditis and various fake treatments. It’s not crazy that a non medical person would say I’m good with rolling the dice. It was the fog of war.

Yes because those people didn't overwhelm our health care system.

 

[endo]

Yeah the vaccine definitely made a dent in the delta variant. The OG strain (no vaccine) and delta were the two spikes i distinctly recall our mortality spiking. And with delta it became pretty easy to guess WHO got the vaccine without asking because those weren't the patients we were intubating/bipaping.

Ummm after that I dunno in my non-public health opinion I'm not sure what the risk/benefit currently is for covid vaccination. When Trump first came out and said it was "basically flu" that was obviously ignorant but flash forward to 2025 and we basically beat the virus into submission and now its a headcold like any other (right? )

I stopped after shot #3 because my myalgias with #3 were worse than than the goddam disease and a giant painful grapefruit lymph node appeared in my armpit for a week. I figured I'd be the rare guy that GETS myocarditis on #4 due to linearly accelerating response to these shots so I was out after that.

It was so weird to see the political implications - I mean both sides had part of the truth and just made up the rest. Even in the beginning most people did fine. Those who were fat or had HTN were more likely to die, but there _was_ randomness to it as well. I remember a guy (obese) that came in a bit altered and talking to me with an 02 Sat of 38% - then on high flow acting completely normal at 78% (later died, one of many). I was just amazed at how low these sats were. By that time we knew intubating wasn’t helping and we just let them ride like that. But only when you get a front seat to the show do you really understand the truth. And it was religion for a lot of people (on both sides). But that’s how humans are…

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Definitely. We all have those stories. My most terrifying moment was watching a healthy woman in her early 30s with no meaningful history....nonsmoker....not obese....definitely healthier than me....just sitting and languishing on bipap after arriving as a transfer from OSH and I'm just looking at her tachypneic self satting mid 60s on bipap....and as I'm tubing her I'm thinking the whole time, wtf is this virus

I did that intubation wearing the full biohazard gear as the only person in the negative pressure room since there was a semi-legit thought that **** could spread to all of us and do the same thing

Of course, she died. One of the first deaths I saw of the OG strain and the one that sticks with me the most because it broke my narrative it only affected smokers/old people/people with comorbidities and her PMH was a blank slate

 

[JacobMcCandles]

"I know my body" never ever worked for me, but that's probably because it was attached to drug seekers.

Exactly. You know you can stop wasting time in the room.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Yes because those people didn't overwhelm our health care system.

Sure they do. They are just our constant baseline and do so by constantly making bad decisions. Not sure why they get a pass for making thousands and thousands of bad decisions but you would feel differently about someone who makes 1 bad decision?

Thats the rub in my eyes. Also overwhelming the healthcare system has more to do with the design of the healthcare system than much else. We have little to no room. Hospitals run like a factory trying to be at full or over full capacity. The reasons are financial and otherwise but they lack redundancy, they lack the proper staff etc. Thats the fault of the system and those who fund it and not the patients (as much).

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Yes because those people didn't overwhelm our health care system.

I disagree because there was still a lot of incorrect things being pushed by the vaccine narrative. "If you get vaccinated you won't get COVID" followed by "you can still get COVID if you get vaccinated but you can't spread it to others" etc., etc.

The COPDer who still smokes, the diabetic who still eats a pan of brownies, the alcoholic who still drinks, the obese person who is still a glutton, etc. are all way worse than the person who didn't get vaccinated in my eyes.

 

[endo]

It was the small amount of randomness that was rather scary. I don’t have HTN and I’m not overweight but still, I knew I was going to get infected sooner or later. Tho I never got symptomatic in the 8 months prior to a vaccine becoming available (I got covid twice thereafter). I definitely used my “1a” classification to get vaccinated tho when it was available. I watched too many normal, non-high risk people die. I feel sorry for those that really only had the news to try and figure out the truth. Because at that point, whether you were liberal or conservative could mean the difference between life and death. Later on, not so much.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Sure they do. They are just our constant baseline and do so by constantly making bad decisions. Not sure why they get a pass for making thousands and thousands of bad decisions but you would feel differently about someone who makes 1 bad decision?

Thats the rub in my eyes. Also overwhelming the healthcare system has more to do with the design of the healthcare system than much else. We have little to no room. Hospitals run like a factory trying to be at full or over full capacity. The reasons are financial and otherwise but they lack redundancy, they lack the proper staff etc. Thats the fault of the system and those who fund it and not the patients (as much).

We have significantly more ICU beds per capita than pretty much anyone else in the world. We also on the whole run at a lower capacity than most countries. That said, I completely agree that we need to build in more capacity. With the increasing repeals of CON laws I suspect we'll start seeing some increases in the next 5-10 years. At least in non-rural areas.

That aside, I feel differently because even if those COPDers stopped smoking, they will still have COPD and still end up in the hospital pretty frequently. Same with CHF.

For COVID, a single vaccine would have reduced hospitalization numbers massively.

 

[EctopicFetus]

We have significantly more ICU beds per capita than pretty much anyone else in the world. We also on the whole run at a lower capacity than most countries. That said, I completely agree that we need to build in more capacity. With the increasing repeals of CON laws I suspect we'll start seeing some increases in the next 5-10 years. At least in non-rural areas.

That aside, I feel differently because even if those COPDers stopped smoking, they will still have COPD and still end up in the hospital pretty frequently. Same with CHF.

For COVID, a single vaccine would have reduced hospitalization numbers massively.

The real key is allowing physician owned hospitals.

I think like this.. every time the COPDer put in a cigarette in their mouth it was a choice. I dont smoke and never have thats my choice, im overweight but i try to workout and eat well. Im not perfect but i try. Working in the ED we see people who dont. Whatever the reason science is much clearer on the harm of junk food, sugar, smoking, fried food, heroin use, crack, guns, etc than the science ever was about covid. Again, it was a singular choice. You forgive the 40 pack year smoker but not the person who made a single choice. Sorry i dont agree with that.

We may have more ICU beds but i would argue we try a lot harder to keep people alive than other countries. Im sure there are better sources but i found this..

ICU Beds per Capita by Country 2025

Data and statistics on the number of ICU beds per capita by country, including countries with the most ICU beds, countries with the most hospital beds, and countries with the fewest ICU beds.

worldpopulationreview.com

We are 4th. In terms of meaningful countries we are 2nd behind Germany.

Back to covid there was a lot of fog of war stuff. I dont blame your average non medical joe. A relatively unproven vaccine is scary. Again, i got vaccinated early and got my booster. I would do it again. That being said no more covid shots for me. The booster was not a pleasant experience and fwiw i never tested positive for covid and i worked FT and then some during covid. I wore my mask and tried to take care of myself.

 

[Porfirio]

So glad COVID is over. I would get my vaccines all over again and the ones for my family. F that Chinese viral lab made virus.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The real key is allowing physician owned hospitals.

I think like this.. every time the COPDer put in a cigarette in their mouth it was a choice. I dont smoke and never have thats my choice, im overweight but i try to workout and eat well. Im not perfect but i try. Working in the ED we see people who dont. Whatever the reason science is much clearer on the harm of junk food, sugar, smoking, fried food, heroin use, crack, guns, etc than the science ever was about covid. Again, it was a singular choice. You forgive the 40 pack year smoker but not the person who made a single choice. Sorry i dont agree with that.

We may have more ICU beds but i would argue we try a lot harder to keep people alive than other countries. Im sure there are better sources but i found this..

ICU Beds per Capita by Country 2025

Data and statistics on the number of ICU beds per capita by country, including countries with the most ICU beds, countries with the most hospital beds, and countries with the fewest ICU beds.

worldpopulationreview.com

We are 4th. In terms of meaningful countries we are 2nd behind Germany.

Back to covid there was a lot of fog of war stuff. I dont blame your average non medical joe. A relatively unproven vaccine is scary. Again, i got vaccinated early and got my booster. I would do it again. That being said no more covid shots for me. The booster was not a pleasant experience and fwiw i never tested positive for covid and i worked FT and then some during covid. I wore my mask and tried to take care of myself.

I don't forgive the 40 pack year smoker at all. But, its almost always the result of a stupid decision while in high school (or younger) and then you're stuck with a very addictive substance.

 

[Mount Asclepius]

Time to really devolve this thread and discussion. Let’s merge gun control with vaccines. Godwin’s law is coming to fruition.

‘Targeting the CDC: Police are operating under the theory that the gunman was either sick or believed that he was sick and blamed the illness on the Covid-19 vaccine, a law enforcement official told CNN. An employee at the CDC, which is near Emory, told CNN he saw a man approach agency’s HQ and shoot at the building.’

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/active-shooter-emory-university

 

[Pinner Doc]

A mass shooting because of an anti-vaccine conspiracy sounds like the most American thing ever 🇺🇸