Rise

[Rhabdoid]

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How are you guys (esp. 1st years) preparing for the RISE. What's your institution's take on the RISE and scores? My program seems to be a bit anal about doing well, and I'm not sure the knowledge I've gained from day-to-day work will suffice.

 

[2121115]

How are you guys (esp. 1st years) preparing for the RISE. What's your institution's take on the RISE and scores? My program seems to be a bit anal about doing well, and I'm not sure the knowledge I've gained from day-to-day work will suffice.

The RISE does NOT measure the knowledge you gain from general day to day work. It will NOT suffice.

 

[alaska82]

We are having RISE reviews twice a week. These reviews are done by PGY4s and some by attendings.

 

[raspberry009]

Do yall know when the RISE will happen this year?

 

[Tiki]

It is next week for us.

 

[pathstudent]

The RISE does NOT measure the knowledge you gain from general day to day work. It will NOT suffice.

I disagree. All of the RISE questions come from textbooks (vast majority) and a few from articles. If you read about your cases, RISE questions will be a piece of cake.

 

[lipomas]

I disagree. All of the RISE questions come from textbooks (vast majority) and a few from articles. If you read about your cases, RISE questions will be a piece of cake.

I partially agree with your disagreement 😉

Many RISE questions are directly related to your cases. But others (lots of times the CP cases especially) are not unless you got some obscure case or had to look something specific up for a random reason.

 

[Bugati]

As I first year I thought it had insane amount of cytology which we do not get until our second year.

 

[yaah]

As I first year I thought it had insane amount of cytology which we do not get until our second year.

lol. Just like my real job. Too much cytology.

 

[icpshootyz]

Personally I can't see any reason to "study" for the RISE exam. I look at the RISE as a way to test if my program and my general learning/study habits are working. So if I do well on the RISE it is a reflection on how I am learning over time. However, if I cram for a week or two weeks for the RISE, what does that tell me? All it tells me is I crammed for two weeks and had some extra facts in my head for a multiple choice test. And another way to look at it would be to use the RISE to gauge how well your program is doing. If all residents in a program score poorly on some specific subject like say soft tissue path, then it should be a flag for the program to reassess their soft tissue path teaching. If everyone studies and crams, then the program gets no insight into the good and bad aspects of their teaching.

I don't know, I see these threads every year and it confuses me every year. The RISE is not a test that will be used for anything in your future. It's for you to know how you are progressing over time, and for your program to assess the quality of their teaching. Therefore, just take it without studying and you'll get the most useful data from it. I'm not saying don't study (since you should be doing that for your cases/daily work anyway), but don't study specifically for the RISE exam. It defeats the purpose.

 

[2121115]

I don't know, I see these threads every year and it confuses me every year. The RISE is not a test that will be used for anything in your future.

Actually, it is not uncommon for the RISE to be used as evaluation for promotion to the next training year or even grounds for dismissal from the program. There is at least one program out there (I won't name it but it has been mentioned at CAP RF meetings and on the old CAP RF discussion board) that considers a score below the 10-20% percentile (can't remember which one) to be "beyond remediation" and grounds for termination and a score below average to require remediation of a rotation.

It is also not uncommon for the RISE to be used to determine departmental awards/honors and factor into fellowship recommendations. If you think only your program director knows your RISE scores, I would recommend rethinking that one.

In summary, there is more than ample reason for many residents to cram and/or figure out a way to game the test. Your description of how you view the RISE is noble and, IMO, the best way to go about it, however, not the reality for many residents.

 

[icpshootyz]

I guess if there are actually programs out there like that then you have a point. But if someone scores in the 10th percentile, maybe that should be grounds for some sort of intervention/penalty. It would be a glaring mark that that person is not doing anywhere near the required level of learning that they should be, no?

At least at my program the RISE score is stressed as being an indicator for the resident to judge themselves against their peers (anonymously) and to judge the quality of education of the program overall. I guess I'm in a good place after all 😉

 

[2121115]

I guess if there are actually programs out there like that then you have a point. But if someone scores in the 10th percentile, maybe that should be grounds for some sort of intervention/penalty. It would be a glaring mark that that person is not doing anywhere near the required level of learning that they should be, no?

Well, by definition 10% of residents are in the bottom 10% right. That would mean mandatory dismissal of 10% of residents every year... and it would lead to massive cheating on the RISE.

 

[icpshootyz]

In turn, every test has a passing level and a failing level, right? I would counter-argue that scoring in the 10% (overall, not just some small sub-category) means you REALLY do not know your material. Granted, the boards are the real test that is used to determine whether you can or cannot practice pathology, and I think it should stay that way. And now that I think if it, my original reasons for posting in here was that I don't think the RISE should be used for anything other than judging your own progress in residency, and for the program to judge their teaching. But yeah, start hitting the books way harder if you're in the 10th percentile.

 

[Ombret]

I've heard that there is some RISE score that's highly predictive of success on the boards--someone told me 150. Anyone heard this chestnut before?

FWIW, at my program the RISE is required, but the score is not used for anything.

 

[gbwillner]

In turn, every test has a passing level and a failing level, right? I would counter-argue that scoring in the 10% (overall, not just some small sub-category) means you REALLY do not know your material. Granted, the boards are the real test that is used to determine whether you can or cannot practice pathology, and I think it should stay that way. And now that I think if it, my original reasons for posting in here was that I don't think the RISE should be used for anything other than judging your own progress in residency, and for the program to judge their teaching. But yeah, start hitting the books way harder if you're in the 10th percentile.

I would argue that you could be a great resident and easily be in the bottom 10% on the Rise, especially in the first year. I gather from this thread:

1. Some programs will fire people for sucking on this test, so they will study their arses off, while in other programs it means nothing. The latter residents are much more likely to do poorly on the test.

2. Some programs have special study time and courses for this test. Other programs don't even have rotations in "Six Sigma". Residents at the second institution are at a huge disadvantage in terms of score.

3. The test is administered half-way through the year. It is possible (and was the case for me) that residents complete 4 months of autopsy, 1 month surgpath, 1 month cyto, and 1 month molecular when taking the Rise for the first time. Given there is virtually no autopsy on this test, those residents should fare poorly.

4. The test is filled with esoteric bullsh*t. Many of the questions are not geared to finding out if you'd make a good pathologist, but if you picked up some stupid factoid about some entity along the way.

I agree with others who said this test should only be used to measure your own personal growth, and any other use not only makes the test useless for you as a tool, but also for everyone else since the averages will be more and more inflated. Actually, I think this test is a complete waste of time and no study I've seen even remotely suggests otherwise.

 

[KeratinPearls]

I've heard that there is some RISE score that's highly predictive of success on the boards--someone told me 150. Anyone heard this chestnut before?

FWIW, at my program the RISE is required, but the score is not used for anything.

My chair says if you score 500 or above on the RISE you will pass the boards.

 

[2121115]

Yes, 500 is the commonly used cut off.

To follow up on the other discussion... no I do not think that a first or second year resident should be fired for being the bottom 10% of a test. There is still plenty of time to correct deficiencies. I also don't think senior residents should be either though.

 

[gbwillner]

My chair says if you score 500 or above on the RISE you will pass the boards.

That's because the only study ever done showed that, surprise, people who do well on a test do well on another test. Since >85% of people pass the boards, if you pick the people who do well on this stupid test they are more likely to pass the boards. I bet the same would apply for step 1, 2, and 3 scores. You might find a similar correlation with driving tests.

 

[KCShaw]

According to the ASCP website, "RISE results should not be used as the sole criterion on which performance, promotion, or advancement is based." A program which is essentially firing residents based on their RISE scores is, I think, putting themselves at risk. It's also been commonly said that some programs allow their residents to take the RISE open-book or by pooling knowledge/talking, as much a learning experience as a test, which should sway the overall averages.

Personally, I think of the RISE as a reasonable way to gauge your own progress over the years vs yourself and vs your peers, on average, and a reasonable facsimile of what the boards can be like -- different but the same. I wouldn't put much weight on 1st year results, especially in areas you haven't had a rotation in yet. But you certainly want to see significant improvement year to year, and by your final year it's at least some sort of standardized gauge to assess your readiness for the boards. Of course, it can also be misleading, or you inadvertently find yourself not studying something for the boards because you did so well on the RISE and end up not passing the boards. But, it's a heckuva lot better than nothing.

 

[lurksalot]

According to the ASCP website, "RISE results should not be used as the sole criterion on which performance, promotion, or advancement is based." A program which is essentially firing residents based on their RISE scores is, I think, putting themselves at risk. It's also been commonly said that some programs allow their residents to take the RISE open-book or by pooling knowledge/talking, as much a learning experience as a test, which should sway the overall averages.

Personally, I think of the RISE as a reasonable way to gauge your own progress over the years vs yourself and vs your peers, on average, and a reasonable facsimile of what the boards can be like -- different but the same. I wouldn't put much weight on 1st year results, especially in areas you haven't had a rotation in yet. But you certainly want to see significant improvement year to year, and by your final year it's at least some sort of standardized gauge to assess your readiness for the boards. Of course, it can also be misleading, or you inadvertently find yourself not studying something for the boards because you did so well on the RISE and end up not passing the boards. But, it's a heckuva lot better than nothing.

This.