Rising MCAT averages

[orangeman25]

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In pre-allo, it's been mentioned that the new median MCAT this year has risen to a 33 (unbelievable)

Do you believe that we will see a comparable MCAT jump (to 29) for osteopathic schools once the new data comes out?

 

[bcurtis]

Since the MCAT is changing in 2015, any averages that do come to a head won't mean much; at least if the scoring will be different (which I'm pretty sure it will be). I'm curious to see if the new MCAT will continue the old MCATs trend of slowing getting higher and higher.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Yea they have been rising like 0.8 points like every year for the past few years... Its insane.

I do think that the new MCAT will have the same trend happen, but at least a few years should pass before the prep companies really hone in on it

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[13132]

In pre-allo, it's been mentioned that the new median MCAT this year has risen to a 33 (unbelievable)

Do you believe that we will see a comparable MCAT jump (to 29) for osteopathic schools once the new data comes out?

That number is from the MSAR I believe, which reports the average MCAT for accepted applicants. Therefore, you will have numerous high MCAT people getting accepted at multiple institutions. Since these scores are reported multiple times they inflate the medians. I have no doubt that the average matriculant MCAT has risen, but its probably not up to 33.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I doubt it. The average matriculate student for MD still likely has around a 30.1 mcat with the average accepted still being around a 32.

That being said, I won't be surprised if it did go put a 33 for average accepted student. And I won't be surprised if next year DMU, PCOM, NSU, LECOM-B will post a 29 average mcat and I won't be surprised if CCOM, Touro-CA, Touro-NY, and Western post a 31.

Reality is that with every year as the MD match gets more and more competitive more and more traditionally pre-allo students wash into pre-osteo land and they get in. This wash in will only increase and with it average applicant stats and accepted averages.

 

[orangeman25]

I doubt it. The average matriculate student for MD still likely has around a 30.1 mcat with the average accepted still being around a 32.

That being said, I won't be surprised if it did go put a 33 for average accepted student. And I won't be surprised if next year DMU, PCOM, NSU, LECOM-B will post a 29 average mcat and I won't be surprised if CCOM, Touro-CA, Touro-NY, and Western post a 31.

Reality is that with every year as the MD match gets more and more competitive more and more traditionally pre-allo students wash into pre-osteo land and they get in. This wash in will only increase and with it average applicant stats and accepted averages.

How can average matriculant average be 30.1 while accepted be 32? Are people not taking their acceptances?! That's absurd.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

How can average matriculant average be 30.1 while accepted be 32? Are people not taking their acceptances?! That's absurd.

1 person applied with a 35. Gets accepted to four places.
1 personal applies with a 30. Gets one acceptance.

35+35+35+35+30 all over 5 = 34 accepted student average.

35+30 = 32.5 matriculate average

 

[user3]

1 person applied with a 35. Gets accepted to four places.
1 personal applies with a 30. Gets one acceptance.

35+35+35+35+30 all over 5 = 34 accepted student average.

35+30 = 32.5 matriculate average

iirc The median MD matriculant has been at 32 for a few years now

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

iirc The median MD matriculant has been at 32 for a few years now

That's an accepted student stat. Matriculate was always lower in the 30s.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

That's an accepted student stat. Matriculate was always lower in the 30s.

Are you sure this is how they play with the statistics? I was under the impression the calculation was done after May when you can hold only one acceptance.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Are you sure this is how they play with the statistics? I was under the impression the calculation was done after May when you can hold only one acceptance.

Who knows, something has to account for an almost 2 point dif.

 

[Goro]

I don't know if it will be a 29, but it wouldn't surprise me, and it's definitely is rising for DO programs as well. Some of the TUCOM and CCOM acceptees already an avg of ~30. My students are right behind that.

In pre-allo, it's been mentioned that the new median MCAT this year has risen to a 33 (unbelievable)

Do you believe that we will see a comparable MCAT jump (to 29) for osteopathic schools once the new data comes out?

 

[orangeman25]

Are you sure this is how they play with the statistics? I was under the impression the calculation was done after May when you can hold only one acceptance.

That sounds more intuitive to me

 

[Seth Joo]

In pre-allo, it's been mentioned that the new median MCAT this year has risen to a 33 (unbelievable)

Do you believe that we will see a comparable MCAT jump (to 29) for osteopathic schools once the new data comes out?

Maybe, but then again the scoring system is changing as well. I am not surprised that MCATs are rising, since more people are applying to schools. Also many students take MCAT tutoring courses as well. The increase is particularly noticeable over the past 6 years since the economy has not been the best.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Maybe, but then again the scoring system is changing as well. I am not surprised that MCATs are rising, since more people are applying to schools. Also many students take MCAT tutoring courses as well. The increase is particularly noticeable over the past 6 years since the economy has not been the best.

People have been taking Kaplan for years. Someone gave me their prep materials from the late 90's and it was the same exact thing I had in 2009. The cover was different and there were a few more illustrations but the content was the same.

I think the biggest change was people finding out about TBR for PS sections and EK for VR. Honestly 1 passage was almost exactly the same on my test. It had the same picture and everything. I went into robot mode when I saw it.

That SN2 study schedule was a game changer.


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[Awesome Sauceome]

People have been taking Kaplan for years. Someone gave me their prep materials from the late 90's and it was the same exact thing I had in 2009. The cover was different and there were a few more illustrations but the content was the same.

I think the biggest change was people finding out about TBR for PS sections and EK for VR. Honestly 1 passage was almost exactly the same on my test. It had the same picture and everything. I went into robot mode when I saw it.

That SN2 study schedule was a game changer.


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I didnt even use it and I am aware of how the scores started to skyrocket after people started using it. Before that time there was no seriously organized study method.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I didnt even use it and I am aware of how the scores started to skyrocket after people started using it. Before that time there was no seriously organized study method.

Well, you know, besides Kaplan and TPR.

I think the biggest problem with Kaplan was that they never adapted their methods. It was the same archaic method for 10+ years.

NO ONE liked their VR strategies. The PS materials were mediocre at best.

 

[mrh125]

I didnt even use it and I am aware of how the scores started to skyrocket after people started using it. Before that time there was no seriously organized study method.

do you really think enough people use the SN2 study method for it to tilt the average? that'd have to be a pretty large sample size, wouldn't it?

 

[Chillywilly]

Well, you know, besides Kaplan and TPR.

I think the biggest problem with Kaplan was that they never adapted their methods. It was the same archaic method for 10+ years.

NO ONE liked their VR strategies. The PS materials were mediocre at best.

Omg Kaplan IS the worst. Didn't help with my SATs. I decided to give it a second chance on my MCATs... Big fail.
Thank god I smartened up and used TBR & PR .

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

This is why the real question is: has the overall percentile average on the MCAT increased?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

People have been taking Kaplan for years. Someone gave me their prep materials from the late 90's and it was the same exact thing I had in 2009. The cover was different and there were a few more illustrations but the content was the same.

I think the biggest change was people finding out about TBR for PS sections and EK for VR. Honestly 1 passage was almost exactly the same on my test. It had the same picture and everything. I went into robot mode when I saw it.

That SN2 study schedule was a game changer.


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Honestly and I've been saying this for a long time. Kaplan is awful and a waste of your money.
TBR is the best but keeping your a attention and dedication to the material may be difficult.
TPR is the best middle ground you'll get.

 

[Dreamstoo]

Honestly and I've been saying this for a long time. Kaplan is awful and a waste of your money.
TBR is the best but keeping your a attention and dedication to the material may be difficult.
TPR is the best middle ground you'll get.

I agree with this statement big time. I felt like I got scammed. I went from a mere 23 to a barely 25-26. By myself, I was able to improve to a 27-29. I'm taking a local tutor back home this summer who has gotten 3 of my friends 33-37s (two of them that were below average students in college ~3.0 gpas at top 50 universities)

 

[Dreamstoo]

It's crazy how competitive it is getting. This state school near were I live posted a 3.5/30 average when my friends who are in their 30s applied, now the school boasts a 3.8/33 average and is arguably the best state medical school.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I agree with this statement big time. I felt like I got scammed. I went from a mere 23 to a barely 25-26. By myself, I was able to improve to a 27-29. I'm taking a local tutor back home this summer who has gotten 3 of my friends 33-37s (two of them that were below average students in college ~3.0 gpas at top 50 universities)

So... Does this tutor have a clone anywhere around where I live? Haha

 

[Dreamstoo]

So... Does this tutor have a clone anywhere around where I live? Haha

Lol. He's very demanding. Someone told me to expect to be studying 15 hours a week, 6 days a week. Very qualified guy, he got a 40+ when he took it years ago. If you are in the NYC area, I can PM you the guy's contact information.

 

[Seth Joo]

People have been taking Kaplan for years. Someone gave me their prep materials from the late 90's and it was the same exact thing I had in 2009. The cover was different and there were a few more illustrations but the content was the same.

I think the biggest change was people finding out about TBR for PS sections and EK for VR. Honestly 1 passage was almost exactly the same on my test. It had the same picture and everything. I went into robot mode when I saw it.

That SN2 study schedule was a game changer.


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I think the bad economy has also played a roll in the more competitive stats, more students are going to graduate school since the recession started in 2008.

 

[orangeman25]

Yeah it's getting crazy with how the MCAT percentile average keeps rising and rising. Next thing you know, if you don't have a 30 on the MCAT, you are at a disadvantage for DO schools; i don't know how far away we are from that situation, but it seems close approaching

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yeah it's getting crazy with how the MCAT percentile average keeps rising and rising. Next thing you know, if you don't have a 30 on the MCAT, you are at a disadvantage for DO schools; i don't know how far away we are from that situation, but it seems close approaching

As User3 says, as long as new schools open up in random backwoods there will still be options for lower spectrum applicants.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

As User3 says, as long as new schools open up in random backwoods there will still be options for lower spectrum applicants.

I really don't think so... People with 3.3 GPA and 26 MCAT will apply to these schools as back up... I got an LOR from a DO who got into a top DO with an 18 MCAT, and now 25 MCAT is not even considered competitive...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I really don't think so... People with 3.3 GPA and 26 MCAT will apply to these schools as back up... I got an LOR from a DO who got into a top DO with an 18 MCAT, and now 25 MCAT is not even considered competitive...

Well, it's not a 30 lol.

 

[dyspareunia]

1 person applied with a 35. Gets accepted to four places.
1 personal applies with a 30. Gets one acceptance.

35+35+35+35+30 all over 5 = 34 accepted student average.

35+30 = 32.5 matriculate average

I imagine the MSAR GPA/MCAT numbers are self-reported and since most schools will do anything they can to make their admissions stats look better the actual calculation probably isn't the same across the board. Simplistically it's likely one of the two equations above, but an individual school will probably report the higher number of the two.

Yeah it's getting crazy with how the MCAT percentile average keeps rising and rising. Next thing you know, if you don't have a 30 on the MCAT, you are at a disadvantage for DO schools; i don't know how far away we are from that situation, but it seems close approaching

This isn't directed at you in particular, but your post made me think about this strange dichotomy between future DO students wanting to be viewed as equals (either now or eventually) to their MD counterparts, but at the same time are worried that DO admissions are becoming too competitive. Doesn't make sense to me.

Keep up or be left behind imo. Med school isn't (shouldn't be) about hand holding.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think it's the same dichotomy of a MS-4 wanting there to be more Derm residencies and then when he matches for their to be none. We all want what is best for us, it's evolutionarily encoded.

 

[almirbhf]

I doubt it. The average matriculate student for MD still likely has around a 30.1 mcat with the average accepted still being around a 32.

That being said, I won't be surprised if it did go put a 33 for average accepted student. And I won't be surprised if next year DMU, PCOM, NSU, LECOM-B will post a 29 average mcat and I won't be surprised if CCOM, Touro-CA, Touro-NY, and Western post a 31.

Reality is that with every year as the MD match gets more and more competitive more and more traditionally pre-allo students wash into pre-osteo land and they get in. This wash in will only increase and with it average applicant stats and accepted averages.

i know MSUCOM is at 29 right now , was sitting at 31 for large portions of the process

 

[dyspareunia]

I think it's the same dichotomy of a MS-4 wanting there to be more Derm residencies and then when he matches for their to be none. We all want what is best for us, it's evolutionarily encoded.

I don't think those are the same... Wanting to have better access to something, then not wanting that thing to lose prestige/salary/whatever (i.e. derm) is different than wanting something to be easier to access and equally prestigious as its more-difficult-to-access counterpart.

The derm example is like wanting ferrari to manufacture enough of a limited production car so you can buy one, then wanting them to halt manufacture once you have yours.

The DO/MD example is like wanting your mass-produced less expensive (i.e. easier to obtain) ferrari to be as prestigious as the limited production ferrari while simultaneously objecting to ferrari making both models in limited quantities.

 

[user3]

i know MSUCOM is at 29 right now , was sitting at 31 for large portions of the process

unlikely to stay this high after waitlist movement

 

[dyspareunia]

I think the bad economy has also played a roll in the more competitive stats, more students are going to graduate school since the recession started in 2008.

It seems more intuitive that less students would go to graduate school because of the insane cost. Better to keep your $50k/yr job than shell out $50k+ to go to med school. Most 20-somethings don't have the foresight to realize more school probably leads to more pay down the road.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

unlikely to stay this high after waitlist movement

Maybe 28ish probs

 

[bearded frog]

​

 

[Seth Joo]

It seems more intuitive that less students would go to graduate school because of the insane cost. Better to keep your $50k/yr job than shell out $50k+ to go to med school. Most 20-somethings don't have the foresight to realize more school probably leads to more pay down the road.

I disagree with that statement. I even looked at my school, and the trends have been more students going to graduate school than to the work force, the difference is particularly noticeable since 2008. Most people in college are under the assumption that more education means more opportunity.

 

[budda10000]

I disagree with that statement. I even looked at my school, and the trends have been more students going to graduate school than to the work force, the difference is particularly noticeable since 2008. Most people in college are under the assumption that more education means more opportunity.

And it is generally true in non-saturated fields like medicine. Given the stagnant(or slowly growing) number of positions its only natural that the competition will be more fierce with a larger sample size. Lets assume that in 2000 there were 5000 students taking the MCAT and 500 medical school seats. Now assume that in 2013 10000 students took the MCAT yet there are only 600 medical school seats. Since the MCAT is graded on a standard distribution curve then there will be more applicants with higher MCATS despite their relative proportion remaining the same. If med school seats grew at the same rate as applicants then you would probably see no shift in the avrg accepted mcat.

 

[Seth Joo]

And it is generally true in non-saturated fields like medicine. Given the stagnant(or slowly growing) number of positions its only natural that the competition will be more fierce with a larger sample size. Lets assume that in 2000 there were 5000 students taking the MCAT and 500 medical school seats. Now assume that in 2013 10000 students took the MCAT yet there are only 600 medical school seats. Since the MCAT is graded on a standard distribution curve then there will be more applicants with higher MCATS despite their relative proportion remaining the same. If med school seats grew at the same rate as applicants then you would probably see no shift in the avrg accepted mcat.

If the economy made a major turn around, and we saw an economy that existed during the mid to late 1990s, I would bet serious money that accepted stats to medical schools and other graduate schools would level off or even fall. However, its highly unlikely that there will be a period of economic growth that was seen during the 1990s.

A lot of people also take prep courses which have increased MCAT averages as well.

 

[Mad Jack]

Omg Kaplan IS the worst. Didn't help with my SATs. I decided to give it a second chance on my MCATs... Big fail.
Thank god I smartened up and used TBR & PR .

I used Kaplan for my board review in my current profession and they were crap. I might as well have burned that money for all the good it did me. Decided to go it alone on the MCAT with TBR and EK, and ended up doing very well. Kaplan is garbage.

 

[Chillywilly]

I used Kaplan for my board review in my current profession and they were crap. I might as well have burned that money for all the good it did me. Decided to go it alone on the MCAT with TBR and EK, and ended up doing very well. Kaplan is garbage.

I used TBR and TPR for MCAT. And skimmed the EK books. It did wonders! Kaplan is a hot mess

 

[TXKnight]

Same here, I used TBR, ExamKrakers, wikipremed and a bit of PR. Did all official FL's plus the online gold standard ones.I did decent on the MCAT, nothing stellar, but feel I was prepared to get a higher score on PS, as judged by my past FL performance. Time kinda messed me up there. I got lucky on my BS b/c I knew VERY little orgo and had 2 passages of it. However, during all my FLs I was good all along on VR (think 10+) and on the real thing I got choked and scored only a 7. Managed a 29 total (11/7/11).
I also had ALL the kaplan materials...never liked them and never used them

 

[orangeman25]

Same here, I used TBR, ExamKrakers, wikipremed and a bit of PR. Did all official FL's plus the online gold standard ones.I did decent on the MCAT, nothing stellar, but feel I was prepared to get a higher score on PS, as judged by my past FL performance. Time kinda messed me up there. I got lucky on my BS b/c I knew VERY little orgo and had 2 passages of it. However, during all my FLs I was good all along on VR (think 10+) and on the real thing I got choked and scored only a 7. Managed a 29 total (11/7/11).
I also had ALL the kaplan materials...never liked them and never used them

Wow, if you had hit your verbal average, your mcat score would have been drastically different. Verbal was the bane of my existence so I sympathize

 

[TXKnight]

Wow, if you had hit your verbal average, your mcat score would have been drastically different. Verbal was the bane of my existence so I sympathize

Man that Section is so deceiving. I did have some timing issues, but after I finished it I thought I had done a very good job 😀.....

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Man that Section is so deceiving. I did have some timing issues, but after I finished it I thought I had done a very good job 😀.....

Yea it is so goofy. I remember walking out feeling like I completely bombed the PS section and Killed (I mean DESTROYED) the verbal section. I got my average on PS and one point lower on the verbal than my averages (I got a 10 or 11 on every single AAMC). The MCAT is a tricky beast...