Rn Or Pa?????????????

[RespTherapist]

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How's it going?
I have great respect for medical professionals and just wanted to thank you all for your courtesy of spending your time and effort to answer questions especially with what I imagine is a busy schedule. I am very confused about my next career goal and I need some guidance i suppose. I am thinking either RN school or PA school. RN interests me and each hospital has literally thousands of job listings for them. PA is what I always wanted to do but Im very skeptical about job opportunities compared to RN. Looking at job listings at human resources I barely run in at PA position and that serously bothers me. The other thing is the school for PA i want to attend will award me with Associate degree and I will be competing with PA's with masters and bachelors.

 

[njbmd]

How's it going?
I have great respect for medical professionals and just wanted to thank you all for your courtesy of spending your time and effort to answer questions especially with what I imagine is a busy schedule. I am very confused about my next career goal and I need some guidance i suppose. I am thinking either RN school or PA school. RN interests me and each hospital has literally thousands of job listings for them. PA is what I always wanted to do but Im very skeptical about job opportunities compared to RN. Looking at job listings at human resources I barely run in at PA position and that serously bothers me. The other thing is the school for PA i want to attend will award me with Associate degree and I will be competing with PA's with masters and bachelors.

The new standard degree for PAs is the Master's degree so going into an Associates or Bachelor's program is probably not the wisest choice if you intend to pursue a career as a Physician Assistant. Some states are not going to license new PAs without the Master's Degree and some Associates programs are linking to provide the Masters degree with the PA certification. (Look at Cuyahoga Community College and its link with Cleveland State University or the Towson State PA program). It is likely that you are going to have to go back for the Bachelors and Masters if you have an Associates Degree. (Even RT is going to a standard of Bachelors degree for the profession).

Most of the PAs that I have worked with, were literally snapped up right at graduation. The demand for PA (and most mid-level practictioners) is pretty high right now and does not look to decrease. I don't think that finding a job is going to be a problem with either NP or PA. Becoming a mid-level is a great idea if you have the interest. The job outlook for both midlevels is excellent.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

All of the PAs I know, didn't just get a job IMMEDIATELY after graduation. They got paid. My good friends wife was guaranteed 6 figures w/in 3 years working w/ an ortho group (hand surgeon to be specific).

 

[deleted6669]

The new standard degree for PAs is the Master's degree so going into an Associates or Bachelor's program is probably not the wisest choice if you intend to pursue a career as a Physician Assistant. Some states are not going to license new PAs without the Master's Degree and some Associates programs are linking to provide the Masters degree with the PA certification. (Look at Cuyahoga Community College and its link with Cleveland State University or the Towson State PA program). It is likely that you are going to have to go back for the Bachelors and Masters if you have an Associates Degree. (Even RT is going to a standard of Bachelors degree for the profession).

Most of the PAs that I have worked with, were literally snapped up right at graduation. The demand for PA (and most mid-level practictioners) is pretty high right now and does not look to decrease. I don't think that finding a job is going to be a problem with either NP or PA. Becoming a mid-level is a great idea if you have the interest. The job outlook for both midlevels is excellent.

it is fairly easy to complete a postgrad bs or ms while working full time at your 1st job. just go to any pa school, pass the boards and you can get a job.I had several job offers before I even graduated.
only 2 states require an ms at the present time so unless you want to work in ohio or mississippi you have time to get it later. a few other states require at least a bs. all this info is available at www.aapa.org
best of luck whatever you decide.

 

[50960]

PA is a much a better route, and you will get a taste of what it is like to treat people as opposed to nursing them...just ask chimichanga.😉

 

[core0]

it is fairly easy to complete a postgrad bs or ms while working full time at your 1st job. just go to any pa school, pass the boards and you can get a job.I had several job offers before I even graduated.
only 2 states require an ms at the present time so unless you want to work in ohio or mississippi you have time to get it later. a few other states require at least a bs. all this info is available at www.aapa.org
best of luck whatever you decide.

I disagree. If you have a fair amount of experience you shouldn't have trouble getting a job. There is however, tremendous regional variation. If you are looking for the job that gives you 100k with a Ferrari then you are going to be disappointed. New grabs in some places are having a hard time. If you are flexible you shouldn't have a hard time.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[fab4fan]

How's it going?
I have great respect for medical professionals and just wanted to thank you all for your courtesy of spending your time and effort to answer questions especially with what I imagine is a busy schedule. I am very confused about my next career goal and I need some guidance i suppose. I am thinking either RN school or PA school. RN interests me and each hospital has literally thousands of job listings for them. PA is what I always wanted to do but Im very skeptical about job opportunities compared to RN. Looking at job listings at human resources I barely run in at PA position and that serously bothers me. The other thing is the school for PA i want to attend will award me with Associate degree and I will be competing with PA's with masters and bachelors.

Do what you want to do. If you have always wanted to be a PA, then you should be a PA. emedpa could probably give you some good ideas about how to market yourself as a PA. There may be jobs out there, they may not necessarily be listed in the paper.

 

[fab4fan]

PA is a much a better route, and you will get a taste of what it is like to treat people as opposed to nursing them...just ask chimichanga.😉

🙄

 

[chimichanga]

PA is a much a better route, and you will get a taste of what it is like to treat people as opposed to nursing them...just ask chimichanga.😉

good one psi...not sure where that came from, other than my spelling smack, which is always unpopular...

anyway, it likely depends on the state...

I have a friend who was an RN for 15 years, got his PA, and is now making 35/hour as an ER PA (AZ)

I make more, with less liability...

But it's about what you want to do...

Psi: I am raising a family (2 preschool kids) w/ a wife who works only PT...I am home with my kids 22 days per month...

I don't want clinic hours, extra liability, etc. that comes w/ being a PhD, PA, NP, MD, or whatever...

I am defined by my home life, not my career...That's just me!

I only slammed your spelling, I never slammed your career choice please don't slam nursing, sorry you seem to have a disdain and disrespect for nursing...We should expect more from a professional...

 

[zenman]

PA is a much a better route, and you will get a taste of what it is like to treat people as opposed to nursing them...just ask chimichanga.😉

So this means a PA will only be effective with 5% of the population versus "nursing" which is what 95% of the population is seeking.😀

 

[primadonna22274]

Remember that most PA jobs aren't listed in the paper, on the HR job list....more are advertised in PA-specific journals or websites, word of mouth, to PA programs and state societies, etc.
Ignore that though cuz my first job was actually advertised in The Sunday Oregonian. I was shocked and actually didn't want to apply because I thought good PA jobs were never listed in the paper. My then-husband talked me into applying and it was a good job and a very good learning experience (and then I moved on).
You are comparing apples and avocados here though. PA and RN really aren't comparable roles.
Good luck,
Lisa

 

[RespTherapist]

thanks a lot everybody. I think im going to stick with PA since i already have Respiratory therapy license. And the only big difference is that RN makes couple of bucks more than RespiTherap. What do you guys think?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

A couple of bucks more? RN's here start out at around $30 an hour. RT peaks out at about $25. That's an extra....what? About $12,000 a year, not counting overtime. Granted RN's have one of the crappiest jobs in healthcare because of their workload and responsibilities (one reason I respect a GOOD nurse more than I respect almost anyone else....they are hard to find and worth every cent they are paid and then some). We RT's have it extremely cushy because of our limited area of responsibility and therefore I'm not complaining that we make less. Besides, RT is a good stepping stone for advancement (into med school (which is what I am doing once I have my bachelors degree) or PA school), so I don't understand why you consider a lateral move into a field with more stress.

 

[Mary Smith]

Gosh, I hate to burst anyone's chops, but people don't seem to realize what an awesome profession nursing is and no one seems to know how much nurses really make. I know there was a comment about $30 per hour, but that is for a new grad. An Rn with only 1 years of experience, working for an agency rakes in minimally $50 bucks per hour. For night shift, the pay jumps to $68 per hour. I know some home health nurses that rake in $9000 per month (that's net pay!) Yes, believe it or not, nurses can and do make six figure salaries!

Best thing yet- you never take call, schedule all your own hours and a host of other benefits. Yes, PA is a wonderful, awesome profession but nursing rocks too!

 

[deleted6669]

don't most agency nurses get straight pay and no benefits? around here they can make 60/hr but nothing else is included.
so 50-60/hr sounds great but then you take out medical/dental/vision/retirement/cme/licensing fees/life insurance/short and long term disability and you are back at a more nl rn salary of 25-35/hr(which is still a good salary). I know lots of agency nurses who make >100k, it is very doable. the one I work with most often is going back to school to get his crna starting 1/07.

 

[Beau Geste]

The agency nurses that I know have husbands and wives with great benefits, so their PRN income really goes a long way.

 

[RAMPA]

Gosh, I hate to burst anyone's chops, but people don't seem to realize what an awesome profession nursing is and no one seems to know how much nurses really make. I know there was a comment about $30 per hour, but that is for a new grad. An Rn with only 1 years of experience, working for an agency rakes in minimally $50 bucks per hour. For night shift, the pay jumps to $68 per hour. I know some home health nurses that rake in $9000 per month (that's net pay!) Yes, believe it or not, nurses can and do make six figure salaries!

Best thing yet- you never take call, schedule all your own hours and a host of other benefits. Yes, PA is a wonderful, awesome profession but nursing rocks too!

depends on the area. where i live new grads make $18-20hr and agency pays from $32-40hr. most agencies pay the same differentials for evenings or nights here.

yes $30hr is alot but when a home costs 400K its not much. homes here range from high 90s to 250K, anything above that is luxury.

 

[Mary Smith]

The truth is that agencies are actually starting to offer RNs benefits. I know of some agency nurses that get health insurance now. Even still, many agency nurses are married and don't need benefits, thus relying on their partner for benefits which means they are raking in the full $60 per hour.

For agency nurses, when earning a over 100K per year still come out ahead. All those benefits mentioned, medical/dental/vision/retirement/cme/licensing fees/life insurance/short and long term disability don't cost $60K per year. At the most benefits might run about 20K per year, particularly for a single person. So their salaries are not cut in half by the lack of benefits.

It may be have back in the day years ago when RNs earned peanuts, but those days are long gone. I am out in the chicagoland area and RNs do fairly well out here. One agency Rn I know of earned $110K last year working only three 12 hour shifts per week. I'm sorry but you just can't beat it.

 

[chimichanga]

Last year, worked a weekend (Baylor) plan... 3 - 12s, ALL benefits (health ins, paid time off, etc), 102,000...our ER PAs work 4 11 hour shifts per week, and make 90,000...

A friend I know, worked 7 days per pay period, had "pay in lieu of benefits" (wife has insurance for the fam) and made 127,000

no midlevel liability

 

[deleted6669]

Last year, worked a weekend (Baylor) plan... 3 - 12s, ALL benefits (health ins, paid time off, etc), 102,000...our ER PAs work 4 11 hour shifts per week, and make 90,000...

A friend I know, worked 7 days per pay period, had "pay in lieu of benefits" (wife has insurance for the fam) and made 127,000

no midlevel liability

no one says that there are not rn's out there who make great money, there are. 90k by the way is AVG for an em pa, not exceptional. many make 125k or more with full benefits and retirement working 2-3 days/week(the pa's working 2 days a week/8 days a month making > 120 k work 24 hr shifts at low volume high acuity solo departments). you need to compare similar positions. although there are a lot of good sides to agency nursing I have heard lots of complaints as well- long shifts, lots of back to back shifts with many days in a row, working lots of places for only 1-2 days at a time so never feel at home or really have a good hold on what is happening, often sent home early for "low census" because they cost so much so no guarantee of pay for a full day, etc....
if I worked all weekend shifts I would make A LOT more than 102 k( closer to 150).....
no doubt about it. rn is one way to make a lot of money with a min investment in school, but there are always trade offs for the big money jobs, that is why most nurses choose to work at 1 place on a regular schedule making 25-35 dollars/hr.

 

[chimichanga]

wasn't thumping my chest EM, just following in the vein of the previous posts...

I'm not bashing PAs, relax...

anyway, I didn't work agency, that was an urban Phoenix hospital as core staff... All the benefits of non w/e core staff, except that I worked weekends...Besides, going shopping is way less stressful on a monday, then on a saturday...AND no admin around...

and 90,000, unfortunately, is HIGH for any midlevel in the PHX area (doing shift work)

at Cigna, 5 years ago, a midlevel (either NP/PA) working in FP, made 83,00/year, that's m-f, doing mostly paps...at their UC, a midlevel made 45/hour...

Now I knew 2 PAs that worked for a cardio group (rounding, admitting, clinic reading tradmills) on the MD group's patients...They made 175,000...BUT, there were 2 of them and they did all of the call (yep, 15 days/month), and did DAILY rounds while on call, in addition to doing clinic 4 days/ week...no thanks...

Knew another that worked for a priv practice, saw paps, colds, etc (stuff the GPs punted them), worked 3.5 days/week - m thru wed, 1/2 day thurs, with a company truck: 65,000/year...

 

[chimichanga]

you need to compare similar positions.

okay...

I now work a w/e baylor plan, 8 days/month, making 91,000 per (32 hours/week)...I sleep at home...I'm not working at an agency, yep, core staff again...and NO midlevel responsibility (hats off to you though for wanting that responsibility 🙂 )

your example: 2-24 hr shifts/week (48 hours), sleeping (or staying up all night) at the hospital, midlevel responsibility, presumably overtime after 40 hours (so base hourly could be lower)

91,000 @ 32 hours = 43.75/hour

if I worked 48 (I'd be foolish though 😉 ) = 118,000

130,000 @ 48 hours = 52.08/hour (not OT)
130,000 @ 48 hours = ~46.50/hour (OT)

Is that a fair comparison?

 

[deleted6669]

okay...

I now work a w/e baylor plan, 8 days/month, making 91,000 per (32 hours/week)...I sleep at home...I'm not working at an agency, yep, core staff again...and NO midlevel responsibility (hats off to you though for wanting that responsibility 🙂 )

your example: 2-24 hr shifts/week (48 hours), sleeping (or staying up all night) at the hospital, midlevel responsibility, presumably overtime after 40 hours (so base hourly could be lower)

91,000 @ 32 hours = 43.75/hour

if I worked 48 (I'd be foolish though 😉 ) = 118,000

130,000 @ 48 hours = 52.08/hour (not OT)
130,000 @ 48 hours = ~46.50/hour (OT)

Is that a fair comparison?

fair enough....🙂
I mostly sleep at night with an extra differential for the night portion of the shift. a busy shift is 40 pts/shift. a slow shift is maybe 10 pts after midnight with 24 or so for the whole shift. lots of popcorn and dvd's on night shift.....

 

[chimichanga]

my math was WAY off...I get paid for 40 hours, but i work 32...so my hourly is 54.69/hour


and if i worked 48 hours, i'd make 147,853/year

my only point is that earning potentials can be equal...I'm not bashing what midlevels do...they are, however, underpaid compared to what the docs rake in...So nursing should NOT make what a PA makes...Don't get me wrong...I deserve every penny I get, as do all RNs (many are underpaid - my situation is fairly uncommon, though it's the second Baylor plan I've worked)...The midlevels deserve more, period...

 

[deleted6669]

at 48 hrs/week( with differential for all nights/weekends) I would make close to 160k/yr but you're right. everyone earns what they make and some folks are just lucky.

 

[konkan]

How's it going?
I have great respect for medical professionals and just wanted to thank you all for your courtesy of spending your time and effort to answer questions especially with what I imagine is a busy schedule. I am very confused about my next career goal and I need some guidance i suppose. I am thinking either RN school or PA school. RN interests me and each hospital has literally thousands of job listings for them. PA is what I always wanted to do but Im very skeptical about job opportunities compared to RN. Looking at job listings at human resources I barely run in at PA position and that serously bothers me. The other thing is the school for PA i want to attend will award me with Associate degree and I will be competing with PA's with masters and bachelors.

I used to be a nurse and I can honestly say that, I think, nurse is the worst health care profession ever. You get mental **** at you ALL the time from patients, patients families and the rest of hospital staff. You don't think too much - just take care of whining patients and if something serious happens you call physician/np/pa on call, house physician or cpr stat. So no thinking. One of the most ridiculous things was how we were constantly reminded that nurses are patient advocates. It felt like you and your patient are against physicians, pas, pharmacists, nps - the list goes on. Pretty discouraging.
As far as compensation - I started 2003 on regular floor at 20.92/hour for a night shift. My friend started this year at u. of chicago hospitals icu at 21 for day shift.
pa - my sister-in-law is a pa. all she does is consultations on neurology floor. she says it's pretty easy, but a bit boring. again that's just her opinion. Also pas are just med. extenders - not on their own.
Lastly, people talk too much about money. The thing is that you will never ever be satisfied with how much money you make, so it comes down to how are you satisfied with what you're doing.

 

[chimichanga]

There are plenty of situations in nursing where critical thinking and nursing judgement are involved...

I am very happy with the money I make, and enjoy what I'm doing...

However, I have been burned out on ER nursing on more than one occasion...You are right...One needs to always know how happy/dissatisfied he/she is (at any career for that matter)

But the advantage those of us in this field have (RN, PA, NP, docs, resp, etc) is that we can switch hospitals, kinds of floors, clinics, etc...An accountant may not have that luxury...

And in the past 10 years, nursing salaries (in AZ) have increased 50-60%...

 

[Beau Geste]

Lastly, people talk too much about money. The thing is that you will never ever be satisfied with how much money you make, so it comes down to how are you satisfied with what you're doing.

Amen. I make $70 an hour as an SLP and really don't enjoy my job. Now I'm breaking my back to get into medicine because that's where my heart is. I'll be in a lot more debt, but happier. Even though medicine is a well-paying job, I'm doing it for the job first, then maybe the compensation. I need to be in a job where I can do a lot more critical thinking.

 

[chimichanga]

megboo,

in what part of the country are you?

we hired an in-home speech therapist for our son 3 years ago...She only charged 50/hour...

and is there a difference in reimbursement for therapists vs pathologists?

pardon my ignorance...

 

[Beau Geste]

I'm in Northern IL.

I have a private practice and at the moment only have referrals from Early Intervention. The state rate is $70/hr, but that also includes paperwork/drive time (it behooves you to get clients as close to home as possible!). But I have some insurance clients that pay for the EI services and I charge $150/hr for those (only to recoup whatever I can get - insurance doesn't like to pay for SLP).

If I worked full-time (32 kids a week) I could make just over $150K inlcuding meetings and re-assessments costs. If I hired out 10 SLPs, OTs or PTs (all get paid the same state rate), my gross income would be $1.5 million (and then whatever's left after taxes, salaries, and benefits). The downsides to independent practice is doing own billing and no benefits.

I just don't really enjoy my job as an SLP. I think the profession is outstanding, but I literally have to drag myself to each appointment to spend and hour with each kid. I felt the same when i worked in nursing homes and hospitals, so I know it's time for a career change. My father is a CRNA who works with a general surgeon in a small So. ILL town and I LOVE shadowing them during morning surgeries.

Anyway, my goal outside of going to med school is to also have a therapy practice since EI is an established and well-funded program in IL. I see myself as being a good boss in understanding therapists' needs financially and clinically, and hopefully I can get a handful to work for me!

 

[chimichanga]

Many thanks to you for doing early intervention...My son was in EI w/ in home speech and an in home social work level therapist, for his speech delay...we supplemented that w/ the speech gal we paid for weekly...we didn't feel that once per week was enough...

Your work was VERY much appreciated by the likes of us...our son is 5 and in kindergarten now, reading and talking up a storm...I get that you are fried w/ your job...I've been there...Luckily for me teaching clinicals changed my perspective, and renewd my interset...Good luck w/ med school...I, like others had thought about PA or MD...But I have small kids and a wife...I like being home w/ them 5 days a week...That's just me...And a committment like that just isn't for me in my situation...I would hate FT daycare (never had to do it) and not seeing my family much...More power to you...A great background you will have for medicine...And an appreciation for what the rest of us (non physicians) do!

I own 80 acres in S Ill, near Decatur...May semi-retire there later in life...

 

[Beau Geste]

Thanks! I love the kids a lot. I have some real great success stories - one little boy did so well with me that his family and I are very close. He was even my ringbearer at my wedding last fall!

I think I like EI the best out of all the settings, so if I do decide to go through with owning a clinic with actual employees (other than myself) I will push EI the most. If you like kids and like being a therapist, EI is a great job.

In Illinois, EI credentials SLPs, OT, PTs (and all their assistants), Developmental therapists (those who hone play and interpersonal skills), nurses, audiologists, and pretty much any allied and ancillary staff.

So, just as I work for myself, there are other OTs and PTs I know who work privately and make good money like I could. Food for thought for the people worried about the DPT costing so much!

 

[Mary Smith]

/

 

[Mary Smith]

I used to be a nurse and I can honestly say that, I think, nurse is the worst health care profession ever. You get mental **** at you ALL the time from patients, patients families and the rest of hospital staff. You don't think too much - just take care of whining patients and if something serious happens you call physician/np/pa on call, house physician or cpr stat. So no thinking. One of the most ridiculous things was how we were constantly reminded that nurses are patient advocates. It felt like you and your patient are against physicians, pas, pharmacists, nps - the list goes on. Pretty discouraging.
As far as compensation - I started 2003 on regular floor at 20.92/hour for a night shift. My friend started this year at u. of chicago hospitals icu at 21 for day shift.
pa - my sister-in-law is a pa. all she does is consultations on neurology floor. she says it's pretty easy, but a bit boring. again that's just her opinion. Also pas are just med. extenders - not on their own.
Lastly, people talk too much about money. The thing is that you will never ever be satisfied with how much money you make, so it comes down to how are you satisfied with what you're doing.

I am shocked at this idea that nurses can't think. Maybe we should make nurses into mechanical robots therefore we wouldn't need people to take care of you. Would you want a robot taking care of you??

There has been many a time when nurses have had to question, verify and even correct physician orders for whatever reason. I'm sure that there are plenty of nurses out there who are extremely disillusioned with the profession as there are people disillusioned in EVERY profession. And yes, there are even many disgruntled crabby docs out there who would love to do something different. I used to work in peds office with about 12 different docs. If I had a dime for every time they complained for being on call or whatever it was, I would be rich.

Nurses do a lot for people and they one of the most respected professions out there. Let's not bash anyone regardless of what they do because you know what, we are all human and your title doesn't make you any better than anyone else in life and in the end, the most important is that patients get well cared for and the attention they so need.