RN student presenting my patients on rounds

[Crayola227]

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Good question. I would probably still be irritated just because the intern has obviously had all of M3 and M4 to work on presenting and they most likely don't need to be as concerned about making a good impression and getting good LORs for residency.

However, I think the big difference is that presenting and being concerned about the H&P actually falls under the intern's "job description", and so I would be more understanding of that situation. Like others have said, presenting this kind of information to the attending is not something done by nursing students or nurses and has no relevance to her future "job description", so there is literally no reason for her to be allowed to do this at the expense of my education.

It seems like the consensus though is that I can't do much about this, other than just try to be proactive about my own education. Thanks especially to @Crayola227 , I'll be using your advice to help with this.

you're right FBnB about the intern not caring

 

[cbrons]

1) $100 says the RN student is not actually presenting the patient, but rather just giving the overnight events and other relevant numbers.

I bet this too.

Also its common when you are in a community setting with no residents for attendings to ask nurses about patients because they know the nurses very well and are used to their phraseology (and their ramblings/histrionics in some cases).

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[Donald Juan]

Good question. I would probably still be irritated just because the intern has obviously had all of M3 and M4 to work on presenting and they most likely don't need to be as concerned about making a good impression and getting good LORs for residency.

However, I think the big difference is that presenting and being concerned about the H&P actually falls under the intern's "job description", and so I would be more understanding of that situation. Like others have said, presenting this kind of information to the attending is not something done by nursing students or nurses and has no relevance to her future "job description", so there is literally no reason for her to be allowed to do this at the expense of my education.

It seems like the consensus though is that I can't do much about this, other than just try to be proactive about my own education. Thanks especially to @Crayola227 , I'll be using your advice to help with this.

I don't know where you're getting these "job descriptions" from, but I (and 95% of the rest of us) go ask nurses for the S&O portions of a progress report almost daily. We don't say, "Now, nurse, present your H&P to me!" we just say, "how's Mr. Blank been overnight?" Training a nurse to be thoughtful about the things we want to know is important.

 

[Promethean]

Good question. I would probably still be irritated just because the intern has obviously had all of M3 and M4 to work on presenting and they most likely don't need to be as concerned about making a good impression and getting good LORs for residency.

The need to make a good impression never goes away, especially so early in an internship. And some interns are in transitional/prelim spots, so they may indeed need LORs.

Everyone has their hustle to do.

I don't know where you're getting these "job descriptions" from, but I (and 95% of the rest of us) go ask nurses for the S&O portions of a progress report almost daily. We don't say, "Now, nurse, present your H&P to me!" we just say, "how's Mr. Blank been overnight?" Training a nurse to be thoughtful about the things we want to know is important.

Agreed.

You know, nurses do history taking and physical exams, too. The nursing term is assessment, the physician term is examination, but both do them and document them. Nursing notes are set up a bit differently than physician notes, and docs rarely bother to read them, as they contain far more detail about the hour to hour / minute to minute care that patients receive. (They are, best as I can tell, mostly written for the benefit of future lawyers, so there is a lot of defensive documentation about minutia that you don't care to know--but that you may be glad were recorded if/when they can be referenced for your defense.)

You will appreciate the nurse who can present a case concisely and appropriately when you find yourself paged about a crisis at 3 am. You don't want that to the when they are first practicing their presentation skills.

 

[username456789]

The need to make a good impression never goes away, especially so early in an internship. And some interns are in transitional/prelim spots, so they may indeed need LORs.

Most prelims/TYs have no need for any type of LOR at that point.