Rochester vs. SUNY Downstate vs. Jefferson

[BiggerWetterBrain]

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About me: I am a non-traditional student that has been doing psychiatric research for several years. I hope to become a psychiatrist that practices and researches. I acknowledge that this may change, but I don’t see that happening at the moment. I currently live in NYC, but I am a MN/WI native that maybe would like to return for residency.

SUNY Downstate

Pros:
- I have a small support group in NYC already
- Close proximity to excellent locations for away rotations/building connections with excellent residency programs
- I am currently single, but would like to look for a serious relationship, so being in a city with a lot of attractive potential partners is a huge plus.
- Good match list (and some of the top residency programs in psychiatry have SUNY downstate graduates)
- A reputation for excellent clinical training
- Lectures are recorded and a lot aren’t mandatory. As an undergrad I attended basically every lecture, but I think it’s an outdated form of learning compared to recorded lectures.
- The students I talked to seemed nice and pretty happy (but these were all M1s).
- They have a couple of research labs that do great research on a topic that I've been studying for a while, and I hope to continue to study in the future.

Cons:
- The admissions office sends emails that contain mistakes/misunderstandings (I could elaborate on this if necessary), which may be an indicator of poor administrative support in the future.
- Location: There are a lot of perks, but NYC is just okay to me. I’ve been here for about two years, and the first year was very rough (a bad breakup + non-stop grinding w/work, volunteering, MCAT prep) which has led me to generally associate it with negative feelings. I imagine that these feelings may change if I go to school here and establish an even better social support group.
- I am not sure how well-regarded SUNY Downstate is at the national level, which will be important if I apply for residency programs outside of the northeast.
- Unranked on USNWR. I’m not sure how much this matters, though.
(Before anyone mentions it, I know that the facilities are pretty run down. I don’t see this as important. Going to school in a place with a lot of shiny surfaces and frosted glass isn’t going to make me a better doctor. But if you can convince me that this should matter, then I’m all ears.)

Summary: This school has a lot to offer in terms of clinical experience and research. It fits with my learning style and it’s in an excellent location for my future career goals. However, I am concerned that there may be poor support for students, and that the program may not be as well-regarded outside of the north east. I am not sure about this, though.

University of Rochester

Pros:
- Of all the schools where I am being considered, I’ve heard that this school is the most well-regarded (and ranks the highest).
- An emphasis on the biopsychosocial model, which is great for an aspiring psychiatrist like me.
- All the staff and students I talked to seemed very nice and happy (but students were only M1s and M2s).
- Well known for their research, so I could probably further my career as a researcher here as well.
- Sounds like their problem-based learning is well done.

Cons:
- It’s in Rochester, NY. It kind of seems like a boring place to live, and I’m not sure if it’s great for a person that is single and looking, like myself. I also hate cold winters. NYCs winters have been easy, and I don’t like the idea of going back to winters like I experienced in MN/WI.
- Lectures are not recorded. It’s an inefficient way to learn and I really don’t think this will work well for me (as an undergrad, I tended to zone out occasionally and then I would be lost for the rest of the lecture – that could be a disaster for lectures that are several hours long!).
- Good match list, but not as good as SUNY Downstate or Jefferson?

Summary: There seems to be a lot going for this school. They have great learning and research opportunities, and it seems like a great environment to learn in. The match lists also seem good, but maybe not as good as the other options. I have serious concerns about the non-recorded lectures and the location.

Thomas Jefferson

Pros:
- The students and staff were all very nice and seemed happy
- I really liked the location of the school and, subjectively, it seemed to be a good “fit”.
- It was located near UPenn, which has an excellent psychiatry residency program. There are several Jefferson grads that are part of this program, so it may be good for me to establish connections via away rotations here.
- Recorded, non-mandatory lectures
- Seems like a good location for a single person like myself (and so many other medical students in the area!)
- It sounded like there was a good amount of ‘hands-on’ training during clinical years.
- Good match list, seems on par with SUNY Downstate.

Cons:
- Would probably cost around $20k-30k more (total) to attend this school compared to SUNY Downstate and Rochester. Higher tuition, but cheaper cost of living.
- Not really known for its research opportunities (but how important is this for residency programs if I already have pubs?)

Summary: I really liked the time that I spent here interviewing. The location was great, students and staff were friendly, and they seemed to have great opportunities for becoming a good clinician. However, it is expensive, and I don’t think it has the same reputation as Rochester. Does this really matter that much, though? I’m not sure.

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Overall Summary: I think my ranking is currently SUNY Downstate > Jefferson > Rochester. From all the previous X vs. Y threads, it seems like the general preference for people is Rochester > Jefferson > SUNY Downstate. Am I missing something? I’ve tried to lay out my reasoning as best I can. Please let me know if I'm missing something!

 

[Quantal Reasoning]

I would go Jeff>Rochester>Downstate.

 

[rball]

I’ve heard good things about SUNY Downstate match outcomes from colleagues, but tbh I don’t know much about it.

I can tell you even here on west coast Jefferson and Rochester have very strong reputations and track records. I don’t know if I’d agree that Rochester is more well-regarded than Jefferson as you are saying, at least in the fields I am familiar with.

Overall between Jeff and Rochester choose where you’d be happiest. Others can chime about Downstate. Best of luck!

 

[BiggerWetterBrain]

I’ve heard good things about SUNY Downstate match outcomes from colleagues, but tbh I don’t know much about it.

I can tell you even here on west coast Jefferson and Rochester have very strong reputations and track records. I don’t know if I’d agree that Rochester is more well-regarded than Jefferson as you are saying, at least in the fields I am familiar with.

Overall between Jeff and Rochester choose where you’d be happiest. Others can chime about Downstate. Best of luck!

Thank you! I suppose when it comes to Jeff vs. Rochester, I do prefer Jefferson. Especially if they are both about as well-regarded.

 

[BiggerWetterBrain]

Congratulations on three fine options. You have laid out the pros and cons of each well. It seems Jefferson satisfies the greatest number of your needs and wants, despite the modest increase in cost.

A downside of Downstate is the negative associations you have based on your experiences of NYC. That is unlikely to change, given what a tough environment the city and medical school can be. Philly is a more livable place, and has slightly milder weather.

Thanks! True that Jefferson hits most of the requirements, but it is so expensive! I may regret the decision when I have to start paying back my loans. At the same time, I may regret staying in NYC if I find that my feelings towards the city don't change. I suppose that if Jefferson has a better reputation, then that could possibly help me nab better opportunities in the future to help offset the cost difference. So many thoughts to consider!

 

[teatimepanda]

$30k as a total rather than annual difference doesn't seem that bad. You are in the unlucky position of being a non-trad who actually understands how much money that is--all these kids talking about a $200k difference as though it's a mere inconvenience, oh lord--but in the scheme of things it's a fair price for a school that suits your learning style, in a new city you like, with good match potential. You'll earn enough to pay it back. Only caveat being that if you are looking at a maximal amount of debt, like $350k+, the interest will be killer and you should split hairs at that point.

I would lean toward Jefferson. Especially since your established interest in a specialty and research experience will make it easier for you to find opportunities in Philly to compensate for its lack of research programming.

Rochester will be too challenging given that you don't like the weather, you want recorded lectures, and you are an older student without an established support network. The ranking isn't good enough to compensate.

Only other counterargument would be that SUNY Downstate is in deep Brooklyn, which is a whole different city if you're living in another part of NYC, and you might have an advantage with research or mentoring based on your current job. There will also be the opportunity for away rotations at the very strong psych programs at nearby hospitals. I don't think any of that is enough to make up for the fact that you don't seem to love NYC. You'll be paying a premium to live there, why not be certain about it? Philly is a phenomenal place not too far away.

 

[BiggerWetterBrain]

You've made a lot of good points, teatimepanda. Assuming that the differences in cost aren't gargantuan, I think Jefferson is the way to go. Thank you for your thoughtful response!