Rocky Vista COM

[paramediclizard]

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We'll see how the students are treated though.

The students are treated well by the dean, administration, faculty, community physicians and citizens of Colorado.

It's idiots like you who inadvertently treat us differently. Perpetuating the same tired response is getting you nowhere.

BTW, what was your response to the above poster wondering if you have done anything besides post on an anonymous internet forum? Are you getting involved in this debate anywhere else but here? Just curious...

 

[chewsnuffles]

- Many people point out that the capitalistic market for medical services and drugs in the US is the reason that it can deliver the best care (to a select portion of its population) in the entire world. It also is an innovative hotbed of scientific research and commercialization.

- For-profit institutions in medicine have the perception by many that they have lead to a lower overall quality of care being achieved (such as through medical insurance commercialization, HMO's, PPO's, etc.)

- For profit practices in the pharmaceutical industry have lead to rent seeking behavior.

- There are many ways to fund a business or a school. A lot of the discussion here has been focused on the necessity of exclusively using equity investments to get a school off the ground. I am no expert in this specific field, but a medical school essentially has a guaranteed stream of income, and the ability to finance a school through debt seems a viable option where one could obtain a reasonable bond rating, coupon rate, etc. This raises a few red flags right here.

- Although some have posted here that people may view RVCOM as another Caribbean school, I think it is held by the preponderance of individuals as just as good as any other new medical school.

- Some RD's are going to take out their displeasure towards a FP school the only way they can, by being biased against RVCOM's residency applicants.

 

[Dling]

- Although some have posted here that people may view RVCOM as another Caribbean school, I think it is held by the preponderance of individuals as just as good as any other new medical school.

Is this not because its founders/financiers are the Tien family, that currently run American University of the Caribbean School of Medicine? Why would they change their curriculum other than adding faculty for OMM as they originally planned to be an Allopathic school?

 

[chewsnuffles]

Is this not because its founders/financiers are the Tien family, that currently run American University of the Caribbean School of Medicine? Why would they change their curriculum other than adding faculty for OMM as they originally planned to be an Allopathic school?

There is nothing wrong with either the ciriculum or the graduates of a Caribbean medical school. Why I would almost never recommend that anyone go to the Caribbean is that they fail out a big chunk of their classes and take their money. If you make it through, you're a good doc.

I would say that most DO schools these days have an MD curriculum with an OMM component. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those first two years of board prep at any DO school are pretty much identical to an MD program because the students are responsible for the same material.

 

[NRC]

Is this not because its founders/financiers are the Tien family, that currently run American University of the Caribbean School of Medicine? Why would they change their curriculum other than adding faculty for OMM as they originally planned to be an Allopathic school?

I believe you are quite wrong when it comes to this. Even though the funding comes from the son who's father established American University it is not the same curriculum. I had the faculty and the Director of Admissions visit my university when they were designing the curriculum and explained that every faculty member got to say what they had seen as the best and most effective techniques for developing DO's at other schools. They then took everyone's input and thus developed a new curriculum. Maybe a student who is currently at the school could further elaborate on the subject if they happen to know about it.

One last note, even though it maybe the same family, I do not believe that they have much say in how the actual university is ran other than the fiscal aspect of the process. This is why the have a president of RVU and a Dean of the COM.

 

[paramediclizard]

This is why the have a president of RVU and a Dean of the COM.

And an independant, non-paid board of directors...

 

[brianjg]

I applied to and was accepted to RVU-COM, and I'll admit I was a little skeptical of the for-profit status and yet-to-be decided reputation of the school. However, my interview day at the school was very impressive, and now I am having a hard time deciding between RVU and other schools. Anyway, the point of my post is to tell a story of a recent interview experience at KCOM. I was interviewing with a department chair, and he asked me what other schools I applied to. RVU came up, and he said that his co-chair was recently "stolen" by RVU, and then went on to say that if the rest of the faculty are as good an experienced as him, that RVU will have "no problem." Food for thought.

 

[runninkid]

I applied to and was accepted to RVU-COM, and I'll admit I was a little skeptical of the for-profit status and yet-to-be decided reputation of the school. However, my interview day at the school was very impressive, and now I am having a hard time deciding between RVU and other schools. Anyway, the point of my post is to tell a story of a recent interview experience at KCOM. I was interviewing with a department chair, and he asked me what other schools I applied to. RVU came up, and he said that his co-chair was recently "stolen" by RVU, and then went on to say that if the rest of the faculty are as good an experienced as him, that RVU will have "no problem." Food for thought.

Thanks for the thought. I've heard that RVU got great faculty, but never heard of many sources. When did you interview at RVU? I interviewed on Jan 23rd and was accepted as well. I am very seriously considering attending, but am still weighing my options.

 

[Lokhtar]

BTW, what was your response to the above poster wondering if you have done anything besides post on an anonymous internet forum? Are you getting involved in this debate anywhere else but here? Just curious...

When it was first announced, I wrote to my state representative and my congress representative to ban such a school in PA and the US. Obviously, nothing came of it although I got what must have been the most generic letter of all time as a response. Of course, I might have gone too far as I implied that its graduates should not be eligible for license in this state - I should have invoked Stewart University and their case in Hawaii as an example 😀.

The students are treated well by the dean, administration, faculty, community physicians and citizens of Colorado.

It's idiots like you who inadvertently treat us differently. Perpetuating the same tired response is getting you nowhere.

Let's see it five years from now when they are fully accredited and the floodgates open. More tuition = a bigger bank about for the owner. Incoming class of 1000 with students living out of a cardboard box going coast to coast scrounging for a rotation? I wouldn't be surprised.

And I am not treating you differently. I wish you the best of luck and hope everything works out for you and every student in that class. I have a problem with the owners and the concepts, not the students.

 

[NRC]

And I am not treating you differently. I wish you the best of luck and hope everything works out for you and every student in that class. I have a problem with the owners and the concepts, not the students.

Have you taken the opportunity to tell the "owner", administrators or board of directors how you feel. Or have you thought of writing a letter to the JAOA. It is apparent that you feel that strongly about the topic b/c you are one of the only people still stuck on this whole issue, maybe you could be more effective in actually enacting change by writing someone that could do something or where you could be better heard instead of complaining to a bunch of students that have not say nor dont care and who are here just to do the best thing possible for the patients they will someday care for.

That was my soap box for the day.

Just a thought you could try to become more effective...

 

[Lokhtar]

Have you taken the opportunity to tell the "owner", administrators or board of directors how you feel. Or have you thought of writing a letter to the JAOA.

I wrote to the people I thought could have the most influence. Considering the fact that many prominent osteopathic physicians have been ignored, I doubt they would even read my letter. But I have it typed up, I can always send it. It's too late now though, but maybe they can put a ban on future schools.

you could be better heard instead of complaining to a bunch of students

Hardly. A thread was started on the topic, and I gave my opinion.

 

[MeowMix]

During the last few years, CU-Health Sciences has only produced a handful of family docs (ie. less than 10 for the past 5 years)....RVUCOM is picking up the slack for UCHSC.

all right, idealists.

#1, CU sends at least a dozen people a year into FM, and more into IM primary care.

#2, I will donate $1000 to RVU if more than 50% of the first RVU graduating class chooses family medicine AS THEIR FIRST CHOICE (i.e. they don't end up scrambling into FM when they can't get into Ortho or EM). That's how sure I am that RVU is not addressing the main reason people go into specialties: huge student loans. When your $200,000 loan balance is staring you in the face and your spouse can't stand the thought of living in La Junta, see how idealistic you all are. If RVU seriously wanted to graduate FM docs for rural Colorado, it would charge $5k tuition a year. That would go a long way.

PM me after the 2012 match, and I will pay up if I am wrong.

Remember that FM is the catchall for people who fail to match into other specialties. By default, if RVU grads don't get into their EM residency at Denver Health, or whatever else they wanted, they are statistically most likely to end up scrambling into FM. So, then even if a majority of you fail to match into your specialty of choice, the school will be able to say, Look! We are graduating FM docs! thereby seemingly proving their point that they direct students into primary care. Also, since most scramble spots are at the less desirable rural and underserved urban programs, again RVU will be able to prove that they send more students to those locations.

 

[Lokhtar]

Or they would have a 3 year primary care track like LECOM does, and that's the only thing they would have.

 

[paramediclizard]

all right, idealists.

Primary care is more than just family medicine...general internal medicine, pediatrics, ob/gyn, general surgery, EM are all primary care, IMO.

If you see it this way, no doubt will 50% of my class go into primary care (as their 1st choice)

 

[scpod]

....If RVU seriously wanted to graduate FM docs for rural Colorado, it would charge $5k tuition a year.....

I guess that was meant to be funny, because no medical school can afford to charge that in tuition. But, what you fail to point out is that as a Colorado resident it would cost you more to attend KCOM, SOMA, AZCOM, CCOM, PCOM, GA-PCOM, KCUMB, MSUCOM, NYCOM, OUCOM, TUNCOM, COMP or WVSOM than it does to attend RVUCOM. Calling the RVUCOM tuition high is kind of misleading.

 

[MeowMix]

Primary care is more than just family medicine...general internal medicine, pediatrics, ob/gyn, general surgery, EM are all primary care, IMO.

That's why I made my bet on FM only. CU ALREADY sends more than 50% of its grads into FM, IM, peds, ob. If you include gen surg and EM, then you're over 70%. The terminology confuses journalists, and it's great marketing, to focus on FM only.

 

[MeowMix]

Calling the RVUCOM tuition high is kind of misleading.

I am not singling out RVU as expensive. They are all ridiculously expensive. The loans are part of the reason MD & DO graduates everywhere don't go into primary care. RVU is not changing anything about that equation. I am unhappy with the marketing slant that they are magically going to fix the doctor shortage in rural CO and the west, because it ignores basic long-standing, well-understood reasons for this shortage. It is no joke, spouses do not want to haul themselves and the kids off to a town on the eastern prairies where they have no job prospects. For a few years, maybe, to get your loans paid off, but that's already what NHSC does, and they can't fill all their slots in these communities. Same with the IHS.

 

[scpod]

....I am unhappy with the marketing slant that they are magically going to fix the doctor shortage in rural CO and the west....

Again, that's far from unique. Every new medical school that opens does so because it's "going to fill the primary care needs of the future" in the region where it opens. Check the press from ALL the new schools because they ALL say that. That's part of the way they justify funding or tax breaks or whatever help they are getting to open up.

The medical school system as a whole is messed up. It's just as expensive to attend allopathic schools when you look at out-of-state and private tution as it is osteopathic schools. The probblem is much bigger than what's happening in Colorado.

Your choice not to acknowledge that RVUCOM is not the ONLY problem and fight the battle simply in this one forum is what I am questioning. They really are no different from any of the other schools around.

 

[MeowMix]

They really are no different from any of the other schools around.

The difference is that they're in Colorado and so am I. I have no idea what's going on in other states.

It's relevant because I get lots of questions from premeds who get confused by all the "facts" being thrown around, not all of which are true.

I see a lot of people who really want to stay in Colorado, and are going to invest a lot of money. I can't emphasize this enough, particularly for people who want to go into EM or other very competitive fields (I single out EM b/c CO has an unusually high number of skier/rafter types who want to go into EM): Colorado residencies are highly desirable just because lots of people from out of state want to live here. RVU students have no inherent advantage based on being in Parker. I think the RVU students who are working their butts off are taking the right approach; they will be competing against a national pool of highly qualified applicants for residency slots.

More knowledge and planning now = happier outcome later.

 

[3dee]

I dont get what the big problem is. In the end, no one really cares where you graduated from or where you did your residency. It's not like RVUCOM admits everyone that applies either....they have the same screening process as any other school. The graduates from here will have the same good medical education as any other school.

The only problem I see with this school is the fact that there are no federal loans yet....but i think this is the case with any new school.

 

[MossPoh]

Again, that's far from unique. Every new medical school that opens does so because it's "going to fill the primary care needs of the future" in the region where it opens. Check the press from ALL the new schools because they ALL say that. That's part of the way they justify funding or tax breaks or whatever help they are getting to open up.

I actually laughed at this because the first school that popped into my mind was UCF. They touted their creation as the driving force to put more PCPs in Florida and then they do a 180 and start accepting heavily research oriented people that don't seem to have much of an interest in primary care.


Not on the topic of RVU, but still an example of how schools do that.

 

[Deepa100]

I did not pick RVU for one simple reason. Over the last several months, I have seen good applicants turning away from it for various reasons. I wanted to get into schools with higher GPA/MCAT score cutoffs because it usually translates into better board scores etc. This is a very personal decision for me and had nothing to do with their tax status.

 

[boone95]

I did not pick RVU for one simple reason. Over the last several months, I have seen good applicants turning away from it for various reasons. I wanted to get into schools with higher GPA/MCAT score cutoffs because it usually translates into better board scores etc. This is a very personal decision for me and had nothing to do with their tax status.

Odd reason. You realize you're the one taking the boards, not the rest of the class right? Some one who scores well on the MCAT is probably a decent test taker, so they'll do well on the boards too.

I am the opposite of you. I turned down those other older schools to start something new and live in a great part of the country.

But we all have our own reasons, so we all end up winning in the end.