Ross high failure rate?

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ahgahg

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I am wondering if the failure rate for the first and second year Ross students is really high. In other words, How hard is it to make it through all semesters while following their curriculum?

I understand that if you work hard, it will pay off. But in some cases I know, these students dropped out simply because they couldn't go along with their teaching method, and ended up transferring to another med school.
Does Ross follow a traditional teaching method or is it different?

I would greatly appreciate any insight.

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I am wondering if the failure rate for the first and second year Ross students is really high. In other words, How hard is it to make it through all semesters while following their curriculum?

I understand that if you work hard, it will pay off. But in some cases I know, these students dropped out simply because they couldn't go along with their teaching method, and ended up transferring to another med school.
Does Ross follow a traditional teaching method or is it different?

I would greatly appreciate any insight.

You know Medical school is hard Failure is because some people who are not ready for medical school get accepted to the Caribbean schools, they are not good at studying and not ready for the material so

Some do fail, and thats a good thing

If you do not think your a good student the Caribbean schools use the same books and lectures as the US schools, so be prepared, its not easier in fact it is harder for those who are the poorer students academically!

If students fail it means the school is doing a good job of teaching the way it should be! No one should pass cause they pay!
 
Well Said, Pro'!

I totally concur.
 
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When I was on the "rock", the attrition rate was higher than what was reported by the school. In all, we started the Fall 2001 class with over 260 students. Of that number, about 150 made it through the four semesters "unscathed" and on to Miami's 5th semester. I don't know how many couldn't pass Step 1 and got further off track. I consider myself fortunate through hard work and careful preparation to have made it through the program in four years. I graduated in 2005 with honors.

Just be prepared if you go to work hard. The school has made substantial capital investments in the Dominica campus, and all-in-all the purchase by DeVry seems to have been a real positive. But, it is still medical school, and you will either sink or swim. It's a tough environment to get adjusted to, and it will take a lot of your energy just to stay focused.

The downside is that, if you fail, you will be out of a lot of money. I passed and made it through and now am nearing the end of residency (well, I have one year left). I'm massively in debt right now, and I suceeded. I feel bad for those who didn't make the most of the chance they were given. I also blame Ross, in some small part, for admitting certain students who were "high risk" before they even left for the island. Getting there and staying there are two different things. Simply getting in doesn't mean you are going to become a doctor.

Search your soul deeply before you commit to going to medical school... anywhere. It is a long, arduous path that has it's own share of challenges and rewards, highs and lows, mountain peaks and swamps to muck through. I'm seven years into this process, and it has definitely changed me. Now, I look forward to the end of residency and getting on with my life. I'm over 80% done with this process. Just know that being on that island will likely be the hardest 16 months (or more) of your life. And, that's only the beginning. You have two years of clinical rotations and then at least 3 years of residency. You may be 21 or 22 now, but you're going to give the better part of the best part of your life to building a career in an uncertain industry. You're going to be in now-unimaginable debt.

Play your cards right. Don't worry about attrition. If you go in with that mindset, you're going to be one of the players getting cut from the team. Go in with the attitude that you will succeed. Go in knowing that there are longterm goals that need to be surmounted. If you don't have the fortitude that failure is not an option, you are going to struggle. And, if you struggle, you are more likely to fail.

It's a tough road. Not for everyone. Ross has a vested interest in delivering. I'm living proof. In a little over a year's time, I will be a board-eligible anesthesiologist. And, if I can do it, most of you can.

Good luck.

-Skip Intro
Ross Grad w/Honors, 2005
Resident Anesthesiologist
 
Skip Intro,

Thanks for your last post on Ross. I called them up a couple of hours ago after immediately hearing an ad on the radio. I bombarded the lady I spoke with in admissions on the schools statistics. Here are some of the Stats I heard: 97% of students with a gpa of 2.5 or above pass the USMLE steps 1,2, & 3. 91% of students overall pass the USMLE. I'm sure those statistics reflect the people that sat for the exam.

A couple of questions in my phone call today went unanswered. How hard is it to get a residency? what percent of Ross grads get any match? Is the match rate lower for caribbean schools vs. US schools? Also, is it harder to get a job graduating from a non-US school? It would seem that USMLE board scores should carry more weight in my opinion vs. the school attended. How about patients? Is it important to them where you graduate? As long as you are board certified that should be good. I was referred to a guy named Jeffrey Peralte whom I am going to call tomorrow to answer some of these questions. I'd appreciate any feedback as well.

Thanks,

Ken
 
Skip Intro,

Thanks for your last post on Ross. I called them up a couple of hours ago after immediately hearing an ad on the radio. I bombarded the lady I spoke with in admissions on the schools statistics. Here are some of the Stats I heard: 97% of students with a gpa of 2.5 or above pass the USMLE steps 1,2, & 3. 91% of students overall pass the USMLE. I'm sure those statistics reflect the people that sat for the exam.

A couple of questions in my phone call today went unanswered. How hard is it to get a residency? what percent of Ross grads get any match? Is the match rate lower for caribbean schools vs. US schools? Also, is it harder to get a job graduating from a non-US school? It would seem that USMLE board scores should carry more weight in my opinion vs. the school attended. How about patients? Is it important to them where you graduate? As long as you are board certified that should be good. I was referred to a guy named Jeffrey Peralte whom I am going to call tomorrow to answer some of these questions. I'd appreciate any feedback as well.

Thanks,

Ken

Good info there man.

Thanks.
 
Thanks for your last post on Ross. I called them up a couple of hours ago after immediately hearing an ad on the radio. I bombarded the lady I spoke with in admissions on the schools statistics. Here are some of the Stats I heard: 97% of students with a gpa of 2.5 or above pass the USMLE steps 1,2, & 3. 91% of students overall pass the USMLE. I'm sure those statistics reflect the people that sat for the exam.

A couple of questions in my phone call today went unanswered. How hard is it to get a residency? what percent of Ross grads get any match? Is the match rate lower for caribbean schools vs. US schools? Also, is it harder to get a job graduating from a non-US school? It would seem that USMLE board scores should carry more weight in my opinion vs. the school attended. How about patients? Is it important to them where you graduate? As long as you are board certified that should be good. I was referred to a guy named Jeffrey Peralte whom I am going to call tomorrow to answer some of these questions. I'd appreciate any feedback as well.

Get "a" residency is not hard if you do at least fairly on your steps and clinicals. You will, however, be relegated to the less competitive sites/specialties. The school you went to makes an enormous difference. Great step scores will elevate you, and you can still get university-based residencies though these are usually in the lower tier. Patients will not ask what school you went to. You will always get a job as an MD, but from the Caribbean you won't easily get a position at a top academic hospital without a proven track record for significant research. Overall, if you love medicine and really want it, Carib is a good option because you'll be happy practicing medicine regardless.
 
Skip Intro,

Thanks for your last post on Ross. I called them up a couple of hours ago after immediately hearing an ad on the radio. I bombarded the lady I spoke with in admissions on the schools statistics. Here are some of the Stats I heard: 97% of students with a gpa of 2.5 or above pass the USMLE steps 1,2, & 3. 91% of students overall pass the USMLE. I'm sure those statistics reflect the people that sat for the exam.

Be very careful what you hear from the school. Those numbers are misleading, since only students that pass a cumulative exam at the end of 2nd year are even eligible to take the USMLE. This cumulative exam is apparently even MORE difficult than Step 1 (if true, would make it one HECK of a hard test). I suspect that they are forcing their students to take an NBME exam (form 3 or 4).

The attrition rate at even the most successful caribb schools is very high. Expect at least 1/4th of your class to flunk out/drop out within the first two years.

By far the most reliable people you can get your information from is their graduates that have matched in the states (such as Skip Intro).
 
Be very careful what you hear from the school. Those numbers are misleading, since only students that pass a cumulative exam at the end of 2nd year are even eligible to take the USMLE. This cumulative exam is apparently even MORE difficult than Step 1 (if true, would make it one HECK of a hard test). I suspect that they are forcing their students to take an NBME exam (form 3 or 4).

The attrition rate at even the most successful caribb schools is very high. Expect at least 1/4th of your class to flunk out/drop out within the first two years.

By far the most reliable people you can get your information from is their graduates that have matched in the states (such as Skip Intro).


not sure about ross but sgu has those stats. and they make us take an exam at the end of the 2nd year but it's really easy to pass it.. we had a 92% pass for my class. 52% was passing and old q's from previous exams came up.
 
Most Caribbean schools usually have high attrition rates. That is very true. Usually when you have more open admissions, you have more open exits.
 
How hard is it to get a residency?

Well, not to be cute, but that would depend on what residency you want. If you have your heart set on dermatology, orthopedic surgery, neurosurgery, or opthamology, then the odds are tremendously against you. But, there are plenty of residency programs that will take you, even in somewhat competitive fields, if you don't have too many blemishes on your track record.

That's what it's all about, really. As soon as you start school (and, I'm talking way back to high school honestly), you are developing a track record. Everything is scrutinized by subsequent committees who decide your future. It starts with your extracurriculars and the score you got on the SAT. Then, in college, it's how well you do in your pre-med classes and the MCAT.

Most of you have made it to this page because of a few blemishes, not major black marks. And, that's the key. Take the opportunity you have in front of you, treat it like a clean slate, and build-up your track record from this day forward. If you get into one of the reputable Carib schools, study hard, do well on the boards, get the right letters, and prove yourself to be worthy of being called a doctor, you'll do fine. If you do stellar (and have a few connections), you'll do superbly. Your track record carries you into residency. And, that track record in residency carries you into fellowship and/or private practice. People who hire you want to see you as dependable, competent, and most importantly "low risk". You prove this by sailing through whichever med school you go to, passing the boards and doing well on the first try, and getting a good residency spot.

what percent of Ross grads get any match?

"Any" match? I would imagine most who are realistic do get a match. You should get a spot somewhere if you graduate from Ross (or other reputable Carib schools), unless you have three arms, Tourette's syndrome that causes every other word out of your mouth to be "*&#((, or smell like rotten onion during your interview. It may not be General Surgery in Los Angeles. It may be Family Practice in North Dakota. But, you will get a spot.

In that regard, being a U.S. citizen is probably more important than where you went to school. That's probably equally, if not more important, to a lot of programs where Carib grads land.

And, even if you do an Internal Medicine residency in St. Bleeding Heart Community Hospital in the middle of Idaho, you still will have a chance at getting into a fellowship somewhere if you absolutely rock it, become chief (which you're more likely to do at a program like that), and prove to everyone that you actually can walk on water. People like those who can accept a challenge and surmount odds. And, if you're a good, likeable person, they will help you out to no end. Folks always root for the underdog.

Is the match rate lower for caribbean schools vs. US schools?

I don't know if the rate is lower (not sure what that means). Many Carib grads have the advantage of pre-matching somewhere, which means they don't even have to go through the NRMP program. I was offered a pre-match spot. I gambled on the Match. I'm glad I did because I got into an awesome University-based anesthesia program.

Also, is it harder to get a job graduating from a non-US school?

By job, I'm assuming you mean a private practice job after residency. To be honest, I don't know yet. I'm just starting the job search now. You'll have to wait to hear from me. But, I know that other Carib grads I've met have gotten the jobs they wanted.

However, some practices definitely care about pedigree. Not much you can do about that. Likewise, if you want to go into academic medicine, you may not get that choice job at the Ivy League hospital. But, so what? There is a looming - heck, it's already occurring - doctor shortage out there. Just be sure that you want to be part of this career before you decide to go. Hard to know that now, I know.

It would seem that USMLE board scores should carry more weight in my opinion vs. the school attended.

You would think that, but board scores are not all that important overall. They are simply used to stratify applications as they come into a program. In other words, they don't "rule-in" a candidate, but instead "rule-out" many applicants. Probably the most important part of your application is your letters of recommendation. Also, not having blemishes on your record (failing courses in school, failing the boards once or twice, etc.) is equally important.

Having said that, there are still many programs that won't consider you because you went to a Carib school. That's a reality I faced when I applied to residency. But, overall, it didn't matter for me. I got into a great program that didn't care about where I did my undergrad med training. And, I'm thankful for that.

How about patients? Is it important to them where you graduate?

In the three years I've been a resident and literally close to two-thousand patients I've directly cared for in that time, I've only had two patients ask me where I went to medical school. To be honest, I sort of dodged the question at the time. I admit, it was uncomfortable. It's a difficult question to answer, but for many more reasons than just being proud (or not proud) of where you went to undergrad med. People make a lot of assumptions about your competence based on your answer to that question. And, I can tell you that I've worked with plenty of marginally competent docs who went to prestigious schools. So, don't let that worry you. It happens so infrequently that it's really not an issue.

As long as you are board certified that should be good.

Yes, you will be board eligible (and hopefully certified) in whatever specialty you train in once you get into an ACGME-accredited program. And, that's the best thing about it! There is no discrimination against you once you're licensed and you complete your residency by any of the boards who will certify you. They figure if you're good enough to complete a residency and pass their certification process, you're good enough to be a diplomat of their specialty.

I hope I answered your questions directly. And, I hope you got the chance to have that talk with Jeffrey Peralte. He's a really great guy, and one of the true stellar people working at Ross.

-Skip
 
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