Ross/St.George/ What else?

[Dr.TurkandJD]

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Hey Guys, I am currently starting my application process and this is my candidacy in a nutshell:

Cum Laude in Neurobiology from DePaul University
3.6 GPA/3.4 Science
I did not take the MCAT yet, but practice have been 22-26.
-2 publications, 2 in preparation.
-2 different research labs, 2 years in environmental phycology and 3 years in neurobiology studying neuroplasticity.
-Numerous conferences all over the nation.
-Been down to central america twice, setting up mobile health care clinics in rural areas. Became president of Global medical brigades.
-Volunteering at a children's hospital and adult hospital throughout my undergrad and post-graduation.
-Teacher Assistant for 3 years.
-Co-founder of a non profit that works on providing health care and public health in Nicaragua.

What are my best choice for caribbean? I am definitely considering Ross and SGU. Is there any other schools I should look into? I would really like to do my rotations in Chicago and get into a residency in Chicago.

Thanks!

 

[RussianJoo]

why aren't you applying to US schools? just work harder on your mcat and you'll get in for sure. or if you score in the mid 20's you'll still get into one of the DO schools. Staying in the US will give you the best chance at matching period, especially in a popular city like Chicago.

 

[Dr.TurkandJD]

why aren't you applying to US schools? just work harder on your mcat and you'll get in for sure. or if you score in the mid 20's you'll still get into one of the DO schools. Staying in the US will give you the best chance at matching period, especially in a popular city like Chicago.

I am planning on applying to DO schools and stay in the U.S. I was just thinking, worst case scenario, what are my Caribbean options?

 

[MedicalMoose]

I am planning on applying to DO schools and stay in the U.S. I was just thinking, worst case scenario, what are my Caribbean options?

1. St George's
2. AUC
3. Ross
4. Saba

These are the only schools I'd recommend any normal student to consider. It's far too difficult to pay for the education at the other schools because they don't get US federal student loans. A lot of it also depends on which island you're willing to live on. For me, the only choice was AUC because it is on St. Maarten. I preferred the more "touristy" island. Other people do just fine on the other islands.

I must say though... you had better exhaust your US options before going Caribbean. You should apply to at least 2 cycles of AAMC application to US medical schools and should consider DO schools. Being considered an "IMG" because you go to the Caribbean sucks, but that's just the way it is. Once you make it to residency training, no one cares any more as long as you're doing what's expected of you.

 

[Dr.TurkandJD]

1. St George's
2. AUC
3. Ross
4. Saba

These are the only schools I'd recommend any normal student to consider. It's far too difficult to pay for the education at the other schools because they don't get US federal student loans. A lot of it also depends on which island you're willing to live on. For me, the only choice was AUC because it is on St. Maarten. I preferred the more "touristy" island. Other people do just fine on the other islands.

I must say though... you had better exhaust your US options before going Caribbean. You should apply to at least 2 cycles of AAMC application to US medical schools and should consider DO schools. Being considered an "IMG" because you go to the Caribbean sucks, but that's just the way it is. Once you make it to residency training, no one cares any more as long as you're doing what's expected of you.

Even though its accredited, you are still considered IMG? That does suck. I was thinking about 1 cycle of AAMC, taking my MCAT in april, retaking it in end of july and worst case taking it again in August/September. Instead of wasting a year, just go to SGU or Ross (chicago affiliated hospitals are attractive). My number one choice is definitely DO though.

 

[MedicalMoose]

Even though its accredited, you are still considered IMG? That does suck. I was thinking about 1 cycle of AAMC, taking my MCAT in april, retaking it in end of july and worst case taking it again in August/September. Instead of wasting a year, just go to SGU or Ross (chicago affiliated hospitals are attractive). My number one choice is definitely DO though.

Yep, I'm a pirate doc (I actually enjoy the pun). But take my word for it... you're truly better off in a US school, thus you should attempt two AAMC application cycles if necessary (I would if I could go back).

Yes, the Caribbean schools are "accredited" in some way or another. But NONE of them have LCME accreditation, which is what really matters. LCME schools are the ones that are considered US grads in the residency match.

I applied to ONE US medical school and naively thought somehow I was meant to go there. Then when it didn't happen I thought, well I didn't get in, so I could just go to the Caribbean instead of waiting a year and possibly not getting in again. I read a lot of stuff on forums about the decision, but ultimately just didn't understand the grand implications of it all. Yes, it does work for those who work their butt off.

Learn from my mistakes...
Apply to 30+ schools through AAMC. Find the ones you're willing to go to and apply. If I could go back, I'd probably do 50 US schools. My stats were right around average in most areas and I could've probably gotten in had I just tried more schools. Yes, it's expensive to apply to so many, but it's totally worth the chance at getting a spot in one of them. I was going to apply to DO schools too, but by the time I figured out I could do that I was about 1-3 weeks late from nearly all of the school's deadlines.

Luckily for me, it still worked out and I got into a decent residency (with some struggles). The Caribbean can work out and does for some, but it's a more difficult path to getting the job done. If you want to be a neurosurgeon, you can forget about the Caribbean. Primary care specialties are a lot more doable from the Caribbean than that of the more competitive specialties.

Read Post #8 here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=882646

Good luck to you.

 

[DoctorMedic]

I have to agree with everyone above, US schools whether MD or DO are superior in terms of making life easier matching into residency.

 

[Morsetlis]

Yup. Just don't let your MCAT expire like I did ;p

 

[rogueleadr]

Two of my family's cousins went to Ross. One is now a nephrologist and the other a neurologist...they didnt seem to have much difficulty with residency as many people would make you think.

 

[dragonfly99]

You should try at least twice at US schools,MD and DO, before going to the Caribbean, especially being a young person and with your credentials. If the MCAT score is not high then just don't bother with the US MD schools that have high MCAT averages. Apply to every med school in Illinois and all the other private schools in the Midwest where you might have a chance, and then some others up to 30-35 schools. Don't shoot yourself in the foot before you start by assuming you can't get in.
It is much harder to get residency from the Caribbean, and a lot of US schools have been expanding so scrounging for a spot in the US is the best plan. A DO school in Chicago will have >> chance of a residency in Chicago versus most students from Caribbean schools. Also, in my opinion if you aren't a great standardized test taker then being from the Caribbean could be kind of a double whammy because the US residencies tend to look harder at your USMLE score (test you take @end of 2nd year of med school) to decide whether to take you into their residency program. They tend to weigh it more heavily than they would for a US med school graduate.

Caribbean med school accreditation doesn't really "count" for US residencies...I mean they recognize it as a school, but no different than if you were from Africa, a random European country, etc. in general. Of course certain residencies I'm sure have had good experiences with students from Ross, SGU, etc. and would take them but you need to trust us on this.

Also, have you talked with your school's premed advisors or committee very much? A major university like yours should be able to help you with your issues, as well as pointing you to med schools that historically have taken students from your school. After all, that's part of why you paid all this tuition - to get their services...

 

[whatbout2morrow]

1. St George's
2. AUC
3. Ross
4. Saba

These are the only schools I'd recommend any normal student to consider. It's far too difficult to pay for the education at the other schools because they don't get US federal student loans. A lot of it also depends on which island you're willing to live on. For me, the only choice was AUC because it is on St. Maarten. I preferred the more "touristy" island. Other people do just fine on the other islands.

I must say though... you had better exhaust your US options before going Caribbean. You should apply to at least 2 cycles of AAMC application to US medical schools and should consider DO schools. Being considered an "IMG" because you go to the Caribbean sucks, but that's just the way it is. Once you make it to residency training, no one cares any more as long as you're doing what's expected of you.

Just FYI, Saba students still are not eligible to receive US federal student loans.

 

[MedicalMoose]

Two of my family's cousins went to Ross. One is now a nephrologist and the other a neurologist...they didnt seem to have much difficulty with residency as many people would make you think.

No one said anything about residency itself being difficult; and if they did I would disagree. It is hard work and it requires a lot of time and effort, but by that point in an IMG's entire medical training, they've already had to work very hard and are fully capable of completing residency.

The issue here is getting INTO a residency. Your cousins got into residency "x" years ago. It does (and will continue to) get more difficult for IMG's each year as changes are made within the US system.

Therefore, if you are a pre-medical student (as your profile says), you should heed the same advice and not merely jump on the Caribbean train until you've been rejected from US schools. If you do without attempting the safer options; proceed at your own risk. Of those top 3 schools, I can tell you for a fact that about 65% of those who begin at AUC eventually make it into residency, whether it takes 4, 5, or 6 years to do it. I am certain that SGU and Ross have very similar numbers. And if they don't, I'd venture to take an educated estimate that they're not giving the true statistics, just as every Caribbean school does.

Just FYI, Saba students still are not eligible to receive US federal student loans.

Thanks for that update... I knew they didn't have it yet as of a few years ago, but I wasn't sure about now. Very good to know. That's a very important drawback of Saba, even though it's a lot cheaper.

 

[baron71]

If you want to be a neurosurgeon, you can forget about the Caribbean.

I wouldn't attempt to argue that trying to get into a competitive specialty is more difficult when educated in the Caribbean, but more difficult does not it can't be done. The hard work and abilities of the student are still the most important factors.

Here's proof: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ross-university-school-of-medicine-student-lands-competitive-neurology-residency-with-renowned-canadian-teaching-hospital-2012-04-25

As a general rule US schools are better than Caribbean medical schools, but not all CMSs are the same. Ross medical school is better than the others in several very important ways and when talking about schools that will help you become an MD that can work in the US, Ross can be a legitimate choice.

 

[RussianJoo]

I wouldn't attempt to argue that trying to get into a competitive specialty is more difficult when educated in the Caribbean, but more difficult does not it can't be done. The hard work and abilities of the student are still the most important factors.

Here's proof: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ross-university-school-of-medicine-student-lands-competitive-neurology-residency-with-renowned-canadian-teaching-hospital-2012-04-25

As a general rule US schools are better than Caribbean medical schools, but not all CMSs are the same. Ross medical school is better than the others in several very important ways and when talking about schools that will help you become an MD that can work in the US, Ross can be a legitimate choice.

Nice marketing scheme. the decent choices that people can choose from in terms of carib schools is SGU, AUC, Ross, and SABA. SGU and AUC have the least issues. Plenty of ROSS students are very unhappy with the school because they feel like profs are trying to fail them on purpose, (because if everyone passes then there won't be enough clinical spots to train everyone) and there are issues with not enough clinical rotations especially accredited rotations that will allow you to be licensed in all 50 states. So I would say that SGU and AUC are a better option than ROSS. Plenty of threads discuss the pros and cons of all schools the person applying should weigh these factors and go where they feel is the right fit for them.

 

[dragonfly99]

I wouldn't attempt to argue that trying to get into a competitive specialty is more difficult when educated in the Caribbean, but more difficult does not it can't be done. The hard work and abilities of the student are still the most important factors.

Here's proof: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ros...tal-2012-04-25

As a general rule US schools are better than Caribbean medical schools, but not all CMSs are the same. Ross medical school is better than the others in several very important ways and when talking about schools that will help you become an MD that can work in the US, Ross can be a legitimate choice.

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Agree with RussianJoo. This looks like a marketing ploy for Ross. This newspaper article is about a student from Ross who matched into neurology, NOT neurosurgery. Those are quite different fields. I'm not sure about in Canada, but in the US neurosurgery residency is >> difficulty to get than neurology. This is not to take anything away from the student in the story, who in addition to being a nurse before going to med school, apparently was quite a go getter and did well in clinical rotations in neurology. The article even mentions that only 5 spots in the Canadian match were open to foreign grads on the 1st pass, whatever that means (I guess Canada runs a 2nd or repeat match for people who weren't allow in or didn't match on the 1st run?). I too have met students from Ross who were not entirely happy with their educations. No school is perfect, but I keep hearing the complaint about the too many students at Ross. If they have that they either have to fail people out or have a huge number of clinical rotatation spots, or just farm some out into random clinical rotations that may not be well organized.