Rough Guidelines for EC’s to be competitive for Med School

[Detailfanatic]

Hey everyone!

I’m going back to my high school next week to give advice/guidance to the graduating seniors that are pre med and starting college. Any specific advice you guys could provide in terms of EC’s such as how much shadowing, clinical volunteering, non clinical volunteering, research and medical mission trips?

Any help would be appreciated! One of the ways I’m gonna approach is focusing on things I wish I would have done differently so that they avoid the same mistakes I made!

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[kepler16b]

• 100 hrs shadowing, mostly primary care. Focus on physician/patient interactions.
• 200+ hrs clinical exp.
• 200+ hrs non-clinical volunteering.
• Research: highly individual. You should at least do a summer to see if you like it imo. Does not have to be traditional wet lab experience, and you will not be expected to have a pub.
• Medical missions: avoid, or do not report on your application.

In addition to raw hours, it's important that premeds can articulate the impact that each of their experiences had on their decision to become a doctor.

 

[Detailfanatic]

• 100 hrs shadowing, mostly primary care. Focus on physician/patient interactions.
• 200+ hrs clinical exp.
• 200+ hrs non-clinical volunteering.
• Research: highly individual. You should at least do a summer to see if you like it imo. Does not have to be traditional wet lab experience, and you will not be expected to have a pub.
• Medical missions: avoid, or do not report on your application.

In addition to raw hours, it's important that premeds can articulate the impact that each of their experiences had on their decision to become a doctor.

I recently saw someone else say to avoid medical mission trips. Why is that? I did one and all my interviewers seemed to like it

 

[907914]

• 100 hrs shadowing, mostly primary care. Focus on physician/patient interactions.
• 200+ hrs clinical exp.
• 200+ hrs non-clinical volunteering.
• Research: highly individual. You should at least do a summer to see if you like it imo. Does not have to be traditional wet lab experience, and you will not be expected to have a pub.
• Medical missions: avoid, or do not report on your application.

In addition to raw hours, it's important that premeds can articulate the impact that each of their experiences had on their decision to become a doctor.

I have heard 150+ for each of the volunteering and 50 for shadowing. Have the 'minimum standards' gone up?

And to second the whole 'articulation' thing, even if you only have like 4 hours for something, if you can talk passionately about it go ahead and put it. For instance, I volunteered as a grader at the state middle school science olympiad one year because I am VERY passionate about science education. Small hours, meaningful experience.

 

[djsbaseball2014]

Tell them to stop doing everything everyone else does and be unique applicants. Outside of shadowing and clinical volunteering, nothing is required so pursue hobbies. That’s what sets you apart in this process, that way you can get involved in hobbies and combine them with service.

 

[907914]

I recently saw someone else say to avoid medical mission trips. Why is that? I did one and all my interviewers seemed to like it

Most view it as voluntourism or just straight up vacation...

 

[Woe_is_me23]

I think it’s worth stressing that if they have outside interests (arts, writing, sports, whathaveyou) they should pursue those as well, because it will help them stay happy and be more interesting.

*I repeat, do not stop doing what you love to focus only on becoming a doctor... I think that’s so unhealthy*

Also, although it’s good to be unique, I do think starting some volunteering early on in college and keeping it up for the duration looks good, and probably feels more rewarding.

If they’re off to a university that has research opportunities, getting into a lab early can be helpful (PIs like to hire younger undergrads because it’s a better investment in terms of training them and keeping them in the lab longer, and it’s more likely to result in a paper and a good letter.)

I would also do a quick plug for a gap year, and let the high schoolers know that they do NOT need to apply right out of college to be successful. And, in fact, they can set themselves apart with what they do during their time off.

 

[efle]

Pick up a weekly volunteer shift of a few hours early in college, and stick with it. That gives you a nice longitudinal service entry with several hundred hours.

Get clinical exposure. This is usually some mix of shadowing, clinical employment, or clinical volunteering.

After you've had a couple of the intro science classes, think about adding some weekly hours in a lab. For best results, spend lots of time in the lab over summers, where it's a lot easier to be productive than only stopping by a couple days per week in the semester. Present at your university student symposium. If you're aiming for the most competitive schools, aim for real national conferences or authorship.

Be a normal person too. Play a sport, run a club of interest, learn an instrument, work a part time job for booze money, etc.

Most mission trips are a waste, don't do them and don't try to talk about them on your app

And although "box checking" is often used derogatorily on SDN, that's standard practice for a reason. It works. The much bigger determinant of where you get interviews is your GPA and MCAT score, so the biggest head start you can give yourself is making the best possible grades from day 1 and being smart about when and how you take care of the MCAT.

 

[Goro]

Hey everyone!

I’m going back to my high school next week to give advice/guidance to the graduating seniors that are pre med and starting college. Any specific advice you guys could provide in terms of EC’s such as how much shadowing, clinical volunteering, non clinical volunteering, research and medical mission trips?

Any help would be appreciated! One of the ways I’m gonna approach is focusing on things I wish I would have done differently so that they avoid the same mistakes I made!

From the wise LizzyM:
If you have more than 300 hours of non-clinical volunteering by the time you apply you will be in the top 25% of applicants with regard to community service (based on what I see). The tip top of the pyramid are those who do a full-time volunteerism during a gap year or two (Peace Corps, City Year, etc).

Clinical... top 25% of the pool have employment in a clinical setting: EMT, scribe, patient care technician (aide). The hours don't matter... it is going to be hundreds of hours if you even work full-time for a few weeks.

The proportion of top applicants who have a publication or a thesis is relatively low -- maybe <20% if you include undergrad thesis. Publications? Less than 5% have anything in a reputable peer reviewed journal.

Most applicants have neither a thesis or a publication after 2 years of lab work during undergrad.

To stand out in the top tier, seriously, you need to be in the top 2% in terms of MCAT and have an excellent GPA. Beyond that, if you have the minimum in all areas and stand out in one or two areas (research, clinical, service, leadership, life experience) you'll be fine.



Rough rule of thumb:
Have >150 hrs clinical experience (either volunteer or paid + >150 hrs non-clinical volunteering + ~50 hrs shadowing.

 

[efle]

To stand out in the top tier, seriously, you need to be in the top 2% in terms of MCAT and have an excellent GPA. Beyond that, if you have the minimum in all areas and stand out in one or two areas (research, clinical, service, leadership, life experience) you'll be fine.

LizzyM always puts it perfectly. Quoted again for truth.

#1 obstacle to people is the MCAT. 80% of people score below the matriculant average, and 97-99% score below the average for top schools.

#2 would be GPA, because the typical matriculant has to maintain an A- average across 3-4 years of university coursework.

A distant #3 would be sufficiently checking boxes, anybody can do that. Just start a few years ahead of time and you'll easily hit enough hours in the lab, hospital, or volunteer gigs.

The best advice you can give an 18 year old about to start premed in college is to take classes seriously but leave plenty of time to enjoy their college experience. Spending 2000 hours running several premed clubs isn't what gets you into med school. You can't completely neglect the checkbox extracurriculars, but you also shouldn't obsess over building your premed C.V.

 

[Woe_is_me23]

LizzyM always puts it perfectly. Quoted again for truth.

#1 obstacle to people is the MCAT. 80% of people score below the matriculant average, and 97-99% score below the average for top schools.

#2 would be GPA, because the typical matriculant has to maintain an A- average across 3-4 years of university coursework.

A distant #3 would be sufficiently checking boxes, anybody can do that. Just start a few years ahead of time and you'll easily hit enough hours in the lab, hospital, or volunteer gigs.

The best advice you can give an 18 year old about to start premed in college is to take classes seriously but leave plenty of time to enjoy their college experience. Spending 2000 hours running several premed clubs isn't what gets you into med school. You can't completely neglect the checkbox extracurriculars, but you also shouldn't obsess over building your premed C.V.

Yes, agree 100%.

I honestly think what set me apart was taking classes seriously, but beyond that I did me. I didn’t check any boxes really during undergrad. (But I did in 2 gap years, volunteering + lab.)

 

[Nurse2MD2018]

If every other premed is doing it, you probably should stray away from those activities, i.e soup kitchens, global bridages, etc...
Learn about the needs of your community and link up with organizations that are working towards meeting those needs. No matter how affluent the neighborhood, every community has a need that can be met through volunteerism. Attending school in middle of nowhere surburbia? Look up the demographics of those in nearby neighborhoods. For example if you have a large geriatric population, find groups on campus that are willing to go teach nurisng homes safe sex practices due to the higher rates of STDs among these populations. Not only will you get so much more out of experiences like this but it shows adcoms that you are prepping yourself to become a physician who investigates the needs of their communities, understands social determinants of health and is willing to cultivate care to the needs of the community. Also unique experiences build your interpersonal skills, gives your more diverse talking points during interviews, sets up great points for your PS and makes you a much more interesting human in general.