RP recurrence of urothelial carcinoma

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Haybrant

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67 yo woman COPD very poor lung fx (FEV 1 < 1.0) on 4L O2 at rest s/p nephroureterectomy 1 year ago for localized transitional cell carcinoma of the renal pelvis with recurrence in the left retroperitoneum on 6 month fu scan after surgery. Med onc thought it was a nodal recurrence (i feel more likely local recurrence) gave her chemo for a few months; the recurrence was about 1.5 cm in size, now its about 2.5, no other dz has developed. They referred for consideration of RT. Below is the picture of the PET and its closest proximity to bowel. Appreciate your thoughts on treatment for this now
 

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Whatever intra-abdominal SBRT fractionation you prefer I think is reasonable. I won't mention numbers because it always ends up being a gigantic discussion but whatever you'd consider for adrenal or pancreas SBRT is fine here.
 
why SBRT? standard fx gives your far better therapeutic ratio here.
 
If she were to get immunotherapy- which she could for tcc- based on no data, I would favor sbrt. Would start out by contoring the bowel and expanding it 3 mm. then would contor the gtv and expand it by 4-5 mm but not into the expanded bowel, and then deliver about 8-9 Gy x 3/4, even if it means not completely covering the gtv.

If she were to continue on with chemo, I may be inclined to hypofractionate 20/55 etc (james et al, nejm for bladder cancer)
 
67 yo woman COPD very poor lung fx (FEV 1 < 1.0) on 4L O2 at rest s/p nephroureterectomy 1 year ago for localized transitional cell carcinoma of the renal pelvis with recurrence in the left retroperitoneum on 6 month fu scan after surgery. Med onc thought it was a nodal recurrence (i feel more likely local recurrence) gave her chemo for a few months; the recurrence was about 1.5 cm in size, now its about 2.5, no other dz has developed. They referred for consideration of RT. Below is the picture of the PET and its closest proximity to bowel. Appreciate your thoughts on treatment for this now

Check for motion on a 4D scan--it probably doesn't move.

In that case I'd recommend positioning the patient prone on a belly board, see how close the bowel is, and do 5 fraction SBRT with CBCT alignment to bone. You might get lucky and see it on the CBCT. I'd do 50 Gy / 5 fractions if I can get away with it.
 
Check for motion on a 4D scan--it probably doesn't move.

In that case I'd recommend positioning the patient prone on a belly board, see how close the bowel is, and do 5 fraction SBRT with CBCT alignment to bone. You might get lucky and see it on the CBCT. I'd do 50 Gy / 5 fractions if I can get away with it.

With that level of avidity and the location, and the fact that med-onc thought it was a node, I'd be surprised if it didn't show up on CBCT at all.

Is it visible on CT (no PET) right now, OP? You can localize to RP/para-aortic nodes on CBCT.

I think 50/5 to the GTV + PTV margin, dose paint to whatever is tolerable to the intestine based off distance.

I think 4DCT is a reasonable idea, not necssarily for the mass itself, but to create an ITV for the bowel for a more defined PRV.

Also - I would specifically NOT do a belly board in this case, or abdominal compression. External compression of any kind will potentially push intestine more posterior in the peritoneal cavity and closer to the retroperitoneal area. I think regular supine to allow for best localization and smallest PTV margins is your best bet.
 
Is it visible on CT (no PET) right now, OP? You can localize to RP/para-aortic nodes on CBCT.

CBCTs are highly variable in the abdomen and pelvis. Significant artifacts and poor contrast with lack of visualization are very common there. YMMV based on exactly which linac you have. I advocate for fiducials for things that do not directly correlate with bony anatomy for this purpose.

I recommend always getting a 4D CT for things that might move in the abdomen or pelvis. The magnitude of motion for peritoneal masses can be several centimeters, albiet in this case it's likely retroperitoneal so it probably doesn't move much. Best to check to make sure and incorporate into ITV if it does.

Also - I would specifically NOT do a belly board in this case, or abdominal compression. External compression of any kind will potentially push intestine more posterior in the peritoneal cavity and closer to the retroperitoneal area. I think regular supine to allow for best localization and smallest PTV margins is your best bet.

A belly board has a hole to allow the belly to fall in. See: http://www.rpdinc.com/256-025HOWARD.jpg

This is your best bet to allow the bowel to fall anteriorly away from the posterior tumor.
 
I'd suggest 5 fractions of 7 Gy with Dmax on small bowel of 5.5Gy/fraction.
But frankly, it's palliative and the lady seems quite ill already. I have doubts if the cancer is going to kill her.

Do no harm.


Belly board? Abdominal compression?
She's on 4l O2 at rest... Are you mad?
 
stereo xrt can fall off about 5-10% pet mm for what its worth, depending on the hotspot. 25-30% hot spot will let you fall off 7-10%/mm
 
A belly board has a hole to allow the belly to fall in. See: http://www.rpdinc.com/256-025HOWARD.jpg

This is your best bet to allow the bowel to fall anteriorly away from the posterior tumor.

Ah, okay. Belly board to me means like what we use for prone rectals/gyn, where it's a physical piece that pushes intestine up to get out of the lower pelvis. Interesting. Still think that daily set-up is more challenging in prone and may require slightly more margin, especially if you're doing SBRT.
 
Ah, okay. Belly board to me means like what we use for prone rectals/gyn, where it's a physical piece that pushes intestine up to get out of the lower pelvis. Interesting. Still think that daily set-up is more challenging in prone and may require slightly more margin, especially if you're doing SBRT.

No need for extra margin in my experience--3 mm is adequate.
 
I treated an identical looking bladder recurrence (yes slightly different) recently, solitary ~3cm RP node in a youngish guy. We did up front chemoradiation to 6300 @ 225 to gross disease and pelvis/PA to 4760 @ 170. He tolerated it well and post op scans showed CR, still NED.

If you truly feel its local recurrence, I think SBRT is very appropriate. If you think its a node, I think that an argument can be made for treating the PA electively and the node via SIB. She does seem to have a lot going on, so I can get on board with SBRT even if you think its a node. Would concur with adjuvant immunotherapy in that case.

Unfortunately, these urothelial recurrences tend to do poorly, so expectations need to be realistic.
 
I'd suggest 5 fractions of 7 Gy with Dmax on small bowel of 5.5Gy/fraction.
But frankly, it's palliative and the lady seems quite ill already. I have doubts if the cancer is going to kill her.

Do no harm.


Belly board? Abdominal compression?
She's on 4l O2 at rest... Are you mad?


Palex thanks this is what I think im going to plan to and see how it looks. Also in line w do no harm.
 
anyone else having trouble access rtog protocols now? It use to directly link from rtog/nrg site now you have to go through CTSU? Tried signing up for CTSU but it wont recognize me as a valid user?

So I planned this 7Gy x 5 fractions and im getting a max small bowel spot of 31 and large bowel of 34 but a very small spots. 0.5cc to the small bowel is more like 24 and 0.5 cc to the large bowel is 29. Is the .5 cc measure what you guys use for SBRT when it comes to organs in series, or point max
 
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After delivering the first fraction of 7 Gy the patient had an episode of BRBPR later in the day. Seems like a red herring to me but anyone with concerns? Would you deliver fraction 2 today? Her baseline Hgb seems to be between 8-9, today it is 7.5
 
anyone else having trouble access rtog protocols now? It use to directly link from rtog/nrg site now you have to go through CTSU? Tried signing up for CTSU but it wont recognize me as a valid user?

So I planned this 7Gy x 5 fractions and im getting a max small bowel spot of 31 and large bowel of 34 but a very small spots. 0.5cc to the small bowel is more like 24 and 0.5 cc to the large bowel is 29. Is the .5 cc measure what you guys use for SBRT when it comes to organs in series, or point max

The latest guidelines suggest to report not Dmax as it may only be a voxel, but the dose to 35 cubic milimeters (ICRU 91 - 2017)
 
So I planned this 7Gy x 5 fractions and im getting a max small bowel spot of 31 and large bowel of 34 but a very small spots. 0.5cc to the small bowel is more like 24 and 0.5 cc to the large bowel is 29. Is the .5 cc measure what you guys use for SBRT when it comes to organs in series, or point max

There is a lot of variability out there. 0.5 cc to 30 Gy is pretty conservative for bowel. See attached.

I personally look at Dmax (0.03 cc) but I let it go to more like 36 or 38 Gy. Some people don't look at Dmax at all because it's so susceptible to tiny differences in contouring.
 

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ya I think overall we were pretty conservative with the small and large bowel dose. So over the weekend she developed more hematochezia and Hgb was down from baseline 8-9 to 6.5. They took her inpatient and will likely scope her this week. Of note she was admitted the week prior to my treatment with back pain and I don't really think the recurrent tumor was causing her pain, perhaps it was divertic that was the cause of her pain all along?

Thoughts right now? See what the colo shows then continue with SBRT plan? So far she has gotten 2 fractions.
 
ya I think overall we were pretty conservative with the small and large bowel dose. So over the weekend she developed more hematochezia and Hgb was down from baseline 8-9 to 6.5. They took her inpatient and will likely scope her this week. Of note she was admitted the week prior to my treatment with back pain and I don't really think the recurrent tumor was causing her pain, perhaps it was divertic that was the cause of her pain all along?

Thoughts right now? See what the colo shows then continue with SBRT plan? So far she has gotten 2 fractions.


nothings easy - apparently the patient will need anesthesia for her colonoscopy and they cant arrange this until Thursday. Would you continue with her RT now or insist on knowing colonoscopy results.
 
Yeesh. I'd be wary of continuing treatment after seeing something that might maybe sorta be radiation induced.

Its annoying bc I have reasons to think its not, namely that her first episode of hematochezia was prior to fraction 1 apparently I just didnt find out about it until the day after. Then she has proceeded to have 2-3 more on Friday and over the weekend. She has gotten 2 fractions SBRT so far. Ideally Id know what the colonoscopy results show though to prove this

What would you do now though: Just Wait till colo on thursday and do nothing right now? if there is a clear causative agent in the lower GI then continue with SBRT? Convert this to conventional fractionation right now (and assume something like 25-28Gy for the 2 fractions given?
 
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I wouldn't convert to standard fx. If she did have some prior to her treatment that makes me a lot more comfortable it's not RT related, and I'd treat. I'd get opinion of folks managing her inpatient and try to continue treating if she had some prior to her first fx.
 
ya i feel i need some consensus from others managing her. Unfortunately its one of those situations that if you discuss details closely with non-rad oncs they wont totally get the issue but I guess you have to try

scarbtj, thoughts on management in this one?
 
alright im going to treat her today. W 3 fractions she will be at a palliative BED at least (7Gy x 3, alpha10 BED = 35). If she gets scoped and more needs to be done that she doesn't make it back here at least she will have gotten a palliative dose.
 
So I was reading mednet at Kavanaugh gives a discussion regarding SBRT of liver cancers that are near bowel which I think is germane and useful to read. In hindsight I think considering 10 x 4 (prescribed to as low a isodose as possible) with a 4cc < 40 Gy constraint would have been a reasonable thought based on his discussion

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Dr. Crane's paper (JCO 2016 34:3, 219-226) is a very good report on IHC, and given the fact that few other institutions can accumulate such a sizeable experience, I think it is hard to argue with their nuanced approach in that setting. Their discussion acknowledges all of the caveats inherent in any such retrspective analysis, but this is an uncommon disease where prospective trials are impractical to conduct, and so their study is very helpful.

The vast majority of liver tumors I personally treat are metastases of substantially smaller volume than those treated in the MDAH IHC experience, and our approach is usually much simpler. I am not convinced that biliary stenosis is a frequent enough occurrence outside of the case of an IHC or other lesion causing or threatening stenosis by its intrinsic disruption/invasion of a major duct, and so we generally don't apply a dose limit on that structure--but if anyone knows of compelling data that suggest otherwise, I would appreciate being directed to it. Chest wall dose considerations are always in the background, and we try not to exceed a V30 (absolute) >30cc limit in 3-5 fractions, but the tumor dose is considered a higher priority, so the chest wall limit is soft in that sense. We do pay attention to a liver critical volume (at least 700 cc <15 Gy) and also mean dose per QUANTEC limits, but this issue is not commonly a dose-limiting factor, either.

In nearly every case where a normal tissue structure gives us pause, it is a segment of the GI tract that is receiving an excessive dose. If the maximum point dose to any region is above 9 Gy or so, I usually think about going from 3 up to 5 fractions, and maybe take the total PTV prescription dose down to 45/3 or 50/5, but I am not really so sure that that small difference in fraction number makes a big difference, because I get uncomfortable when the max point dose is above 34-35 Gy, since in the larger pancreas SBRT prospective studies, a typical limit would be on the order of D1cc >33 Gy (eg Herman, J. M.,et al. Cancer, 121: 1128–1137), which is often a max dose of around 35 or so. Ultimately, when we are in that situation, my own default is a 10 fraction regimen using a "4-40" rule, ie <4cc of GI tract above 40 Gy. This local guideline was derived with all the usual hand-waving and guesstimation and blind reckoning and application of models that might have no basis in reality whatsoever, and also our local preference to have simple rules with easy mnemonics, but I think we have done ok with it though haven't done a structured restrospective review of our entire experience. In those cases, the nominal prescription dose is labeled 40 Gy in 10 fractions, but here's the rub: we always use hot hotspots to steepen the dose gradient away from the target and intensify the dose inside the ITV, and so the true prescription dose is essentially as much as we can safely give it, and the biological impact is not necessarily well represented by the nominal prescription dose. There was a time long ago when I thought EUD would be a good metric (Medical physics, 30(3), 321-324, 2003), but that is a relatively unfamiliar notion, and it didn't catch on at all. In any case, while this all might seem like we do things in a far less rigorous manner than Chris and his team (and I wouldn't dispute that he has more self-disciline than I do🙂), I think there is a fundamental similarity insofar as I agree that the intent should be to give as aggressive a dose as possible if local control is the objective...and inter-institutional stylistic differences about how to get there abound.
 
I disagree with a few things there:

Pancreas SBRT limits are for duodenum which is a relatively more stationary (from an interfraction standpoint) and radiosensitive structure compared to large bowel.

D1cc of 33Gy should correlate to higher than a Dmax of 35 Gy in my experience. That written, the rate of significant GI toxicity directly correlated to SBRT was quite low in the Herman et al multi-institutional trial that used that constraint. Regarding grade 3 or higher, all the patients in the paper who had GI bleeds or fistula had other reasons for the GI toxicity (growing disease or stent problems).

Liver mean is often an issue if you use RTOG 1112 tables to calculate your liver dose. This depends on your CTV and PTV expansions in these cases.
 
I disagree with a few things there:

Pancreas SBRT limits are for duodenum which is a relatively more stationary (from an interfraction standpoint) and radiosensitive structure compared to large bowel.

D1cc of 33Gy should correlate to higher than a Dmax of 35 Gy in my experience. That written, the rate of significant GI toxicity directly correlated to SBRT was quite low in the Herman et al multi-institutional trial that used that constraint. Regarding grade 3 or higher, all the patients in the paper who had GI bleeds or fistula had other reasons for the GI toxicity (growing disease or stent problems).

Liver mean is often an issue if you use RTOG 1112 tables to calculate your liver dose. This depends on your CTV and PTV expansions in these cases.

thanks neuronix - ya i was a bit surprised he was taking duodenal dose issue and applying it to GI tract in general. But I guess that just a very conservative interpretation of things which to be honest I think it appropriate if that is the stance that one as the clinician decides to take. I came out of residency less conservative than I now think I should have been. I see virtue in being quite conservative to be honest but sometimes things go to far and are purely defensive.
 
I'd suggest 5 fractions of 7 Gy with Dmax on small bowel of 5.5Gy/fraction.
But frankly, it's palliative and the lady seems quite ill already. I have doubts if the cancer is going to kill her.

Do no harm.


Belly board? Abdominal compression?
She's on 4l O2 at rest... Are you mad?
Completely agree. Sometimes we're so driven to push the dose as much as we can we forget the do no harm first.
 
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