RRA/ABPS/Ankle Fracture

[MaxillofacialMN]

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I did some internet searching to try to figure this out, but it created a headache of different organizations and websites to go to.

Essentially my question boils down to this: If I attend a PMSR/RRA residency, but they don't do any ankle fractures, could I ever become ABPS certified and become a FACFAS?

I'm confused because I thought RRA was rearfoot reconstruction/ankle surgery, but after a residency presentation at school today, the resident basically said, "Orthos take all the ankle fractures, and we don't get any." How can the program be RRA? Obviously it is (according to the CASPR directory), so regardless of not getting any ankle fractures, would it still be possible to become ABPS certified and then ultimately become FACFAS?

This whole system is crazy, and I tried figuring it all out based on numbers and certification/qualification credentials, but I couldn't sift through it all.

Thanks!!

 

[arez10]

So first of all you can become ABPS certified in the foot, which is what most podiatrists do. However, now that the training is becoming more uniform and everything is 3 years, maybe more people will get RRA certified as well. Maybe more hospitals will require it in order to get privileges. But even if you don't, you can still become a FACFAS without RRA.

Second of all, even if Ortho gets ankle fractures, that doesn't mean the residents won't get to scrub them during the 3 years with Ortho. I can't find the list of the number of procedures you need (a resident would know this better than I do) but I'm pretty sure there is a "rearfoot trauma" section. I could be wrong, though. I don't see how a program can advertise being RRA without having some way to get rearfoot procedures, including trauma that may normally go to ortho.

 

[ldsrmdude]

So first of all you can become ABPS certified in the foot, which is what most podiatrists do. However, now that the training is becoming more uniform and everything is 3 years, maybe more people will get RRA certified as well. Maybe more hospitals will require it in order to get privileges. But even if you don't, you can still become a FACFAS without RRA.

Second of all, even if Ortho gets ankle fractures, that doesn't mean the residents won't get to scrub them during the 3 years with Ortho. I can't find the list of the number of procedures you need (a resident would know this better than I do) but I'm pretty sure there is a "rearfoot trauma" section. I could be wrong, though. I don't see how a program can advertise being RRA without having some way to get rearfoot procedures, including trauma that may normally go to ortho.

In addition to what arez10 said about rearfoot cases, in addition to a total of 50 rearfoot procedures, there is a certain amount of diversity you have to have. Rearfoot and ankle cases are broken down in 4 sections: elective soft tissue, elective osseous, nonelective soft tissue, nonelective osseous. You only have to have 3 different types of nonelective osseous cases (which is what ankle fractures fall under) to have enough diversity to graduate. That means you could technically never do an ankle fracture and still get your numbers with midfoot fractures, rearfoot fractures, proximal amputations, bone tumor management, etc. But remember, not all ankle fractures come in through the ER. We get a fair number of ankle fractures that present to our attendings offices. And the residents probably scrub with ortho at some point so they may get some ankles that way.

The whole numbers game can be confusing, no doubt.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Thanks to both of you! That clears it up a lot!